Am I right to withold Fees?

[Drogs]

JPG1. Many thanks for your long and considered reply. You seem to know a lot about all this and I'm very grateful for your advice. Are you able to clear up one thing. -- Are residential care homes providing nursing (as opposed to registered nursing homes or plain residential care homes) eligible to receive the funded nursing allowance? There seems to be a lot of confusion on this point.

Drogs

 

[JPG1]

Hi again, Drogs

The problem that many people are facing is in the use of the words "nursing homes". That's a fairly outdated concept now, because:

There are only 2 types of care homes:

1. Care home without nursing. (That may be what you mean by a 'residential care home')

2. Care home with nursing. (That may be what you mean by a 'nursing home'.)

Both of those are residential, of course, because the residents are residing there 24/7.

The CQC registration of both types of care home is dependent on whether or not they have 24/7 nurses on duty, in the care home. If they do, the care home must be registered as such.

A 'care home with nursing' and registered as such with the CQC, must have a registered nurse on duty 24/7. Not just one poorly underpaid nurse, of course, but a nurse who is registered with the NMC as a suitably qualified and suitably trained and educated nurse, with a pin-number available for you to check via the NMC website where the names of all registered nurses are available. = NMC Registered Nurse on duty 24/7.

A 'care home without nursing' will have no NMC registered nurses on duty at any point in the day, so can only call upon the locally available (via the NHS/GP etc) services. QED: someone residing in a care home that has no NMC Registered Nurses on duty 24/7 can only call upon the bog-standard (no offence intended there!) NHS services that you and/or I can call upon when living in our own home. And for which we are not charged. If my GP decides to send a District Nurse to my home to take a blood test, or to check my blood pressure, or to dress a wound - I am not charged for that service. Neither should a resident residing in a care home that has to call upon the same bog-standard NHS and GP and nurses.

Does that help? Or hinder? Hope it's of help to you, Drogs, if not ask again and I'll try again!

.

 

[Drogs]

Hi and thanks again JPG1

The situation ids that the lady that runs and manages the home is a registered nurse and lives on the premises although the home is not a registered nursing home. There are other registered nurses at the home but i'm not sure how they man (lady!) their shifts. So would this count if the assessment is successful or would I have to move my relative in the event?

Drogs

 

[EllieS]

I'm a little confused but hope this might help. An RNCC nursing assessment was carried out on Mum regularly and she was MEDIUM BAND and was entitled to Nursing contribution and as she had been self funding for that period, the contribution was paid back to her, eventually! I'm not sure who received this when I stopped paying anything at all in a battle to get fully funded care (with some success, but still on the case), the Local Authority or the Care Home.
A continuing healthcare assessment is something quite different. This is used to determine if a patient is entitled to fully funded NHS healthcare. BEWARE, the NHS do not adhere to the laws of the land in its application in many cases and my serious advice to any readers would be not to start paying for care of a patient who if not placed in a Care Home would need to be hospitalised. Don't get on that merrygoround, it will destroy you.

 

[JPG1]

You need to check the original CQC registration of the care home. If you still have concerns about that, contact the CQC and ask your questions of the CQC. You can do that by email, which may be a good idea - because you will then have a record of the advice and information given to you by the CQC, in reply to your specific questions. Phone calls are an inefficient way - nowadays - of seeking advice and help.

It doesn't make one iota of a difference as to whether the Manager is a Registered Nurse and living on the premises - s/he is not on duty 24 hours of the day, 7 days of the week. And that would not allow the care home to be registered as a 'care home with nursing', methinks!

Are you sure that there are other registered nurses working at the care home? If you have checked their current NMC registration against their names, you will know of course.

Are they all working as nurses? Or are they working and currently employed as 'care assistants' or 'care workers' or 'support workers'?

Don't think about any requirements/calls upon you to move your relative until such time as a full assessment for NHS Continuing Healthcare has been completed - to your satisfaction. That has got to be your starting point.

 

[Drogs]

I know the home is not a registed nursing home because the owner said she is seeking to get it registered At least 2 of the nurses whose names l know are registered but intrestingly their registrations expire soon. Not sure of the implications of that. Does the registration just roll over?

Thanks for your help BGI1. I will follow your advise

Drogs

 

[Marianne]

Drogs NHS Continuing Healthcare may be provided by PCTs in any setting (including, but not limited to, a care home, hospice or the person’s own home). Eligibility for NHS Continuing Healthcare is therefore not determined or influenced by either the setting where the care is provided nor by the characteristics of the person who delivers the care. The decision-making rationale should not marginalise a need because it is successfully managed: well-managed needs are still needs. Only where the successful management of a healthcare need has permanently reduced or removed an ongoing need will this have a bearing on NHS Continuing Healthcare eligibility.

My father was in a residential home, the only nursing care he received was carried out by district nurses as and when it was needed, he was granted NHS CHC funding. The SS have been known to give being in residential care as a reason for not qualifying for CHC.

 

[Drogs]

Marianne, thank you very much that was a very helpful reply!

Drogs