The Lack Of Care In Hospitals Now

[Ladywriter1968]

After visiting Dad today with a friend in hospital. Later I rang the hospital to ask a simple question which had forgotten earlier.

I was informed that after we had left my Dad tried to get out from the chair and fell on the floor on his hip, the same side he had the operation a few days ago. They had to help him up he was in pain and had to do more Xrays now.

Its simply disgusting really the lack of care for elderly patients now in hospitals. Why sit him in a chair and walk off and leave him if they know he has a habit of trying to get up and walk. Its just simply all getting me down now really. Its just one thing after another and another and X another.

This is the same hospital that he went missing from over 2years ago when he was missing for 8hrs. and now this has happened. Because of where he lives, all patients go to that hospital now, since the nasty government keep closing them all down and A and E and all. The wards dont seem to have enough staffing levels for all the patients either.

 

[Amy]

So sorry about your dad's accident....is he ok?

Short of restraining people who are determined to get up and wander (breach of human rights), what can hospital staff do? Mis-use drugs so that they are incapable of moving? Thats not acceptable either. Sometimes the risk of a fall is better than the alternatives, because the NHS cannot afford to give one to one care for people at risk of falling....all nurses can do, is seek to minimise the risk.

I hope that your dad has not hurt himself further.
Amy

 

[piedwarbler]

Really sorry to hear your dad had another fall. I share your concerns about staffing levels. X

 

[lin1]

Im so sorry to hear this. I hope your dad is no worse for this fall.

yes some of it is due to not enough staff around on the wards but not all of it , speaking personally i think a lot to do with it is a lack of understanding and lack of caring for sick people

I would have a with the ward sister .I know its not good for dad to be in bed all the time , but I dread to think of the consequences if they leave him alone in a chair again.

 

[mowood]

Couldn't agree more about the lack of care in hospitals.

In our local hospital, where my mum has had many lengthy stays, there are just never enough nurses to cope with the number of highly dependent people on the ward. I've raised this on a number of occasions with the CE and Chairman of the hospital but nothing changes.

I now refuse to leave my mum alone with them as I have no confidence that they will care for her in an appropriate manner.

When she was in over Christmas and New Year, my husband stayed with her all day and I took over from him and did the night shift. That was the only way we could be sure she wouldn't come to harm. We were not very popular with some of the staff but I'm beyond caring about being popular.

I feel very sorry for you Ladywriter, it must be a tremendous worry leaving your dad in such a place.

 

[carolsea]

Oh how I agree!
Have posted a thread 'Mum has a broken hip now'
Very relevent to this post!
Carol

 

[tre]

When my husband was in hospital last September I too found it difficult. We arrived by ambulance at 2.30am and at around 6.00am I was told by A&E to go home and get dressing gown and slippers etc but that I mst be back at the ward by 8.00am as the doctors would need to talk to me as David has PCA which is a form of Alzheimers. He had broken his hip.
When I got back to the ward at 7.45am the sister would not allow me on the ward as it was not visiting hours and the doctors round was imminent. She did not listen when I tried to explain. She was very busy. I went and had a cup of coffee ( and shed a few tears) then returned to try again at 8.15am. Then I was asked by the ward manager where I had been as the doctors were waiting to talk to me! After this the ward manager said I could stay on the ward whenever I wanted. He was nice.
I had printed the Alzheimers Soc fact sheet on PCA and gave this to the Doctors, Ward Manager and Occupational Therapist. I may as well not have bothered except for the occupational therapist. I ended up staying with David from early morning until around 8.00pm every day he was in hospital. He was not given help with eating and drinking unless I did it. Because he cannot see properly when food was plonked in front of him on a normal plate he did not attempt it because he knew he would spill it. He could not use the call button to ask for help with toiletting and could not use the bottle without help. I had to stay as he was so anxious re needing the toilet. This is only just resolving now.
I do not think the nurses were bad, there was just too much to do and not enough staff. They were not horrid to me, infact they were pleased I was helping. There were six chaps on the ward and I found myself helping them too.
The nurses told me that when I was not with David he was not to be left on his own in the chair as he might have another fall- he must be put back in bed with the side rails up for his own safety, so this is what I did when I went to the loo or to get some food.
It is sad that adequate care is not offered. I was lucky my employer was sympathetic and allowed compassionate leave. MY big anxiety was if David slipped backwards in what he could do that would be a permanent change for the worse.
Hope things look up for you
Tre

 

[TedHutchinson]

Depressing article in the Mail on the same theme.
Why, in the 21st century, are NHS patients dying in agony from bedsores?

 

[piedwarbler]

If this is what it's like now think what it'll be like when Cameron's finished with it.

Sorry to be negative but that's how I feel about the poor old NHS.

 

[Ladywriter1968]

hi everyone

Thanks for all your replies and I also read the link and its sickening really. I cant see things getting any better either. and about the bed sores etc, its bloody awful. Prisoners get treated better then the elderly I think in hospitals over here at some places. These poor people that worked all their lives, probably in the war/army etc, and this is the thanks they get for it. Kipping in **** and being left with no food or water. This is the same as the slow death torture really to the people.

After Dads fall at the hospital they said he hadnt hurt himself further. Even if you complain you get no where.

Also did I mention that this is the same hospital my Dad went missing from 2yr ago, he was missing for 8hrs on the streets in the winter with just a top on. He got from 4th to ground then out of hospital. They tried to cover up with excuses of course. Then the sister in charge when Dad was found and returned back at that hospital, she made a joke about it all and said how another patient once walked out with just a gown on and his bum was poking out. I had a right go at her and said, so you think this is funny. You should be struck off, I said to her. She said well at least my Dad had a good adventure. that was her attitude and care towards patients, so I made a complaint against her to PALS. I got a sorry from the hospital. But just say Dad was never found. How is SORRY going to help. They generally didnt care really.

 

[jayne-b]

After Dads fall at the hospital they said he hadnt hurt himself further. Even if you complain you get no where.

I made a complaint against her to PALS. I got a sorry from the hospital. But just say Dad was never found. How is SORRY going to help. They generally didnt care really.

Sorry to hear you and your Dad is suffering from shoddy treatment too

When Mom fell and broke her hip in hospital the reply we got was that they had told her not to get up absolutely no understanding of Alz/dementia and as you say they don't care enough to read the notes to even find out the basics.

I used to believe it when people said, "they're in the best place" about hospitals, well not if your elderly frail with dementia or infirm some other way.

I now ask anyone who is visiting a hospital ward or having a hospital stay to take a look around, if they witness anything that concerns them then write to the hospital Director with a copy to their local MP, not sure what it can do but gotta be worth a try.

One gent I know was in for a short stay and said he was scared should he ever have to be admitted when he was less able, though his care had been good what he had witnessed seriously concerned him and made that comment in the questionnaire he was given on discharge.

Best wishes for a good recovery for your Dad.

jxx

 

[Amy]

Not trying to be conversial...but if there is a patient on a ward with dementia...what should the ward do?...Bearing in mind that on a well staffed ward 12 patients may have 4 staff to care for them....and when a patient requires hoisting it takes two staff.

Amy

 

[JPG1]

...but if there is a patient on a ward with dementia...what should the ward do?...

In words of one syllable each: care for him or her.

If someone has two broken arms, or even just the one, or two broken legs, or even just the one, the ward is supposed to provide appropriate care to meet their needs.

That's what hospitals are required to do. Provide care to meet the needs of the patient. With or without dementia.

 

[Amy]

With limited resources.....how? How many people with dementia fall at home..how many people with dementia become 'lost' from home? How can a ratio of 1:6 provide better care than carers are able to provide at home on 1:1? Maybe the NHS does need an overhaul...maybe there need to be realistic expectations....maybe hospitals need to welcome carers and shared care become the norm...I dont know what the answer is....I do know that there are many nurses totally committed to providing the best care they can for the people that they look after.
Amy

 

[jayne-b]

Amy I am sure there are nurses out there dedicated to caring and those that are do a fantastic job, but, but but, should we who have not had the benefit of that wonderful care not be able to spread the word.

Rolling eyes and tutting because I ask for help to change Mom who is lain in a soaking bed when I arrive, with everything on show as visitors enter the ward, chatting about nail varnish as they jab the thermometer in Mom's ear without warning and giggling when she jumps out of her skin, tugging at the wet bed pad causing Mom to roll about with severe burns to most of her abdomen, I could go on but it's upsetting me and wont do any good. That isn't just understaffing issues, that's the wrong people in the wrong job, only my opinion.

It isn't all the nurses fault and I hope one day I get the chance to lavish some praise, sadly we never got the chance to see if there was anything better on offer.

jxx

 

[JPG1]

Amy,

You mentioned a 1:3 ratio with 4 nurses to 12 patients in hospital.

That's far greater than any Nurseatient ratio that I've ever known in any hospital that I've had to come into contact with. So that should be more than enough for those 4 nurses to provide appropriate nursing care in hospital. Forget dementia - a patient in hospital is a patient in hospital. In need of hospital care - otherwise s/he wouldn't be in hospital.

I wasn't suggesting that there aren't good nurses totally committed to providing the best they can. But there are also nurses who are just 'doing the job' and who have chosen that position for the wrong reasons and who should be booted out of the so-called nursing profession.

Yes, I have one of those in my own family, and she needs more than a rocket up her backside. After 15 years as a bog-standard nurse, she says "I can't be doing with the responsibility so I just do the basics". So she's no Angel! Claire Rayner would be down on her, like more than a ton of bricks, and before you could say the word 'nurse'!

My own 'nurse' should not be called a nurse. She doesn't provide care - she just provides a presence on the ward.

I would not want hospital care to rely and depend on care provided by ............. whoever is available from within a family, or not as the case may be. That's not what hospital care is all about.

Hospital care is about health care.

 

[Ladywriter1968]

In reply to messages

I know that nurses and doctors try to do their best by patients and do work very long hours, especially the nurses don't get enough money either. But you must also understand that especially elderly patients with dementia are very vulnerable and need more help then maybe one some younger who does not have dementia. Cos a dementia patient is like a young child, they cant speak for themselves and relatives cant be at the hospital 24/7 either.

You have to try and visualise if this was your Mum or Dad that went missing from the hospital, for 8hrs, how would you be feeling, say like some that have never found their parent either, luckily for me we did find him at the next hospital, how he got there, no one knows.

But as others have also said, its generally the welfare being of the patient as well. The ward my Dad is on, there are not enough staff on it and lots of patients. Yet the other hospital he was at had more staffing levels in their wards. One of the nurses that changed hospitals actually told me that she complained herself about the ward Dad was on at the other hospital when I told her what had happened. She felt it was poorly run and she worked there, thats why she changed hospitals.

My relative who lives in Spain was saying the hospitals and level of care where she is, is excellent, they even have own private rooms,

I mean what ever happened to the room patients could go to, to watch TV. Now they all have this small TV thing next to their beds and they have to pay for it if they want to watch it. Looking at this way also, a patient in next bed could have the TV on all day, whilst the patient in the other bed could be being disturbed by the noise cause maybe they need to sleep and they hear a TV going off in opposite bed.

Where as years ago when they used to go to the "TV room" if they wanted to, or sleep in their beds for rest if they wanted to.

When I first had to discuss with social services of a care home for my Dad, we had to all fit into this very small room where the needles were and equipment because they didnt even have a proper meeting room for this kind of thing. Plus because it was an equipment room, obviously nurses had to keep coming in and out of it and asking us to squat around so they could get to it. I guess you could call it a box room, not all of us could fit in there to discuss my Dad, so only a couple at a time with the doctor and nurse and SW and rest had to wait outside the room. A huge hospital with no meeting room. We could not even sit down in this room and had to stand up discussing my Dads details and the social worker had nothing to lean on and had to stand up and write her notes.

 

[Splat88]

I agree that hospitals have a duty of care, but if we all struggle to look after rellies with ALz on a one to one basis, how can you expect nurses to keep an eye on patients when they have so many others to look after?

MIL was admitted last year for 9 days with gall stone problems, not diagnosed at the time, they thought it was a severe UTI with abdominal pain.

For the first few days, she had one to one nursing as she was semi delirious and kept trying to rip out catheters and drips. After that, the ward had to keep an eye on her on their own when we weren't there, they didn't ask us acccompany her for either the scan or the MRI, and had little knowledge of how to deal with a confused old lady ( she's nearly 90) who gets lost at home let alone trying to get to a toilet, with or without catheter.

Try telling someone who can't remember instructions for more than a few seconds that she needs to lie still for an MRI for 15 minutes.

No one could get her to wash, take her tablets or do as she was asked ( but then neither can I half the time) , and at the end we discharged her against their wishes because she wasn't eating. Half the nurses thought she was sweet, and half were glad we were taking her home. I can't blame those of the latter opinion, their work is difficult enough. Why are dementia patients not kept in mental health wards, where they would at least have some idea of the problems.

 

[Amy]

Jayne I agree entirely about people being left lying in damp beds...or in wheelchairs for too long....food being left out of reach...not cut up when a patient is unable to do it for themselves...it is wrong....and we all should do all that we can to improve care.

JPG I am aware of areas where the ratio is 1:3...even then, one patient being hoisted, another patient requires two nurses to toilet at the same time.....who is left to watch the other 10 patients? So even with a 1:3 ratio, a patient cannot be watched every minute of the day.

Ladywriter...I do understand about elderly people with dementia...I also know about the horror and dread of losing a parent from a place of care (thankfully it was only for two hours). TVs next to beds?...money making schemes for hospitals...infection control, keep patient in their own area (not saying I agree)

There are things that can be improved....but even with excellent care, accidents will still happen. People with dementia become unsteady on their feet, lose depth perception, become confused. We all know accidents will happen...because they have happened to so many of us in our own homes whilst caring. As I said earlier, if a person is prone to falling the only way to ensure that they dont is to drug them, or restrain them...neither option is acceptable to me.

Just my opinion.
Amy

 

[Ladywriter1968]

hospitals and services

Well that is a good point actually, that why dementia patients cant be kept on a special ward where they are more specialist in that area. After all, they have staff specialised in other areas really of the medical field. Say like a heart surgeon special in hearts probably. And so certain wards for certain high criteria patients.

Everyone in hospital needs help, who ever they are, but those that have their right mind can ask for things or express their feelings, like even say, I don't like this food or I have spilt this down me, nurse nurse, can you come and wipe it up etc. They can ask about their treatment as well and whats going on.

When my Dad was sitting in chair when I visited him, we noticed myself and friend he had dropped Tea all down himself, but the nurse didnt know until she came over. If that had of been really hot tea he could have burned himself.

Now a patient that is mentally ok could say, nurse I spilt this, its burning me, but a dementia patient would not know any difference. I mean, my Dad asked me what his name was the other day and who I was, I had to tell him.

Plus I dont think they get to eat hardly much cos when I was there I fed him a bit and when he try to feed himself he drops it and cant see it properly. He was trying to cut the meet with his fork and then tried to cut the bed clothes with his knife.

Then he tried to pull his catheta(not sure of spelling) out and I had to go and get the nurse quickly as he was undoing it as well, then he tried to climb out of bed and we stopped him.

Its a rotten disease and they become children. But the difference is, a child gets to know what's right and wrong, but a dementia patient doesn't. He asked me so many times where he was and what hospital he was in. He had no clue what was going on around him at all and said he could see a cat and wanted to get out of bed to go over to it.

Its gonna be very hard cause with a hip operation as well, you need to exercise when the physio tell you but Dad will keep forgetting. His arm was numb as he laid on it and he said to me, whats that, I said, its your arm. Then he banged it on the table quite hard and I said, stop it, you will hurt yourself again.

Its really upsetting for me to see my Dad this way as to what he used to be like years ago. But I just shut off my feelings and blank it out really, thats my way of dealing with it. Or controlling my feelings as to what I am seeing.

Anyway, if anyone else wants leave any more comments or opinions please do. Whether about personal care or just the care generally.