Bathing - what next?

[DaveH]

I think my question is rhetorical and I just want to write this down to make me feel better, but any thoughts would be very welcome!

My Mum (Parkinson's and advanced dementia) can't get out of the bath any more. It's increasingly difficult, now near-impossible, for my Dad, 83 and frail, her carer, to get her out. She usually says "Never again". The trouble is, she doesn't remember, so is always insistent on having another bath the next day.

We've just spent £10,000 converting the other bathroom to a walk-in shower room complete with seat. It's fabulous (I'm jealous!). But Mum doesn't like change and won't adapt to anything new, so refuses to use it. The shower room was partly for Dad who had a hip operation that went wrong and can't step over a bath rim, but we hoped she'd use it too.
Do we lock the bathroom door and tell her she can't have a bath, so it's a shower or nothing? Do we buy a bath lift (which I confidently predict she'll refuse to use because "there's nothing wrong with me")? Do we impose outside care on her, despite the wrath we'll incur? Or what?

We've been trying to persuade Dad to get someone in to help with bathing and dressing but he doesn't want to because she'll kick up such a fuss. I can see his point - she's like a lamb as long as he's in sight, dreadful otherwise. Even if he disappears for five minutes to take the bins out or whatever, she gets angry and tells anyone who'll listen just what he's in for when he returns. She makes life hell for him every Friday after the respite carer has been in for two hours while he goes shopping etc. He'd happily stop the respite carer coming but we've told him he must prepare her for the time he can't look after her for whatever reason, and we kind of feel the same way about the bath - he has to be firm, regardless of the backlash, and make her use the shower and/or get outside help.

I'm not sure what I'm asking for, really, because I can't believe there's a solution that's acceptable to all. I'm not looking for sympathy but if anyone has any ideas I'd be very happy to hear them!

 

[Speedy]

Hi, I haven't a lot of experience, but possibly she is becoming anxious because she can't fathom out the shower room, as it is new and she doesn't have any previous memory of it.
Is it worth starting to take her in there just to clean her teeth and things so the room becomes more familiar. Is the colour scheme, lighting confusing for her, could the room be made more homely and familiar? I think a lot of people with dementia dislike showers. Also worth making it is warm enough but not too claustrophobic.
It may be worth getting a second hand powered bath seat for the time, and just leaving it in the bath. She could then get in normally but you could use it to lift her up again to get out.

Good luck

 

[shelagh]

I don't have any answers, we have ghe same trouble with mum. When I was a carer some years ago we managed with a bath seat which really just enabled a good all over wash and a good soothing foot and leg soak. Now that I have the illness myself one of my biggest fears for the future is around bathing. Having a bath has alwaysd been my ultimate comfort and I dread the thought of being difficult about washing. One thing I do remember about the friend I cared for is that when we did insist or they insisted at the hospital he always liked the finished producvt so much that it seeemed worth the trauma for us all. I've told my family they they MUST make me have a bath no matter how much I protest in the future . But whether they will be able to - who knows.

 

[sleepless]

Here's a suggestion, -- Is it possible to cut off the water supply to the bath-taps? (or hand-tighten them so mum can't turn them on) Tell mum there's a fault with them or the pressure or something, and it will be a couple of weeks before it can be fixed?
My dad had a walk-in shower fitted and his bath removed due to problems getting in and out of the bath.
This was a few months before he began with symptoms of dementia, but even so it took him a while to get used to the shower. I think making sure the room is warm is important, and don't have the water coming out too forcefully -- it should be like warm, gentle rain!

 

[mowood]

We use a bath lift for my mum. It's just like a chair that is operated with a battery pack control pad to go up and down into the water. There are lots of different models available - some the back of the seat reclines so that you can lie and soak and others the back is rigid.

Ours was provided through the occupational therapist but if you google bath lifts I'm sure you'll find something that might fit the bill.

Best wishes.

 

[DonnaHewitt]

There are some great new products out there to help your mum get out of the bath. A bath cushion might help. If she can get in the bath easily on her own you could leave it deflated so that she can get it independently and bath as usual and then use the cushion to gently lift her out. They sell them in a number of places, Moderator's Note: Link removed in line with Talking Point's Terms and Conditions

Hope it helps

 

[DaveH]

Hi, I haven't a lot of experience, but possibly she is becoming anxious because she can't fathom out the shower room, as it is new and she doesn't have any previous memory of it.
Is it worth starting to take her in there just to clean her teeth and things so the room becomes more familiar. Is the colour scheme, lighting confusing for her, could the room be made more homely and familiar? I think a lot of people with dementia dislike showers. Also worth making it is warm enough but not too claustrophobic.
It may be worth getting a second hand powered bath seat for the time, and just leaving it in the bath. She could then get in normally but you could use it to lift her up again to get out.

Thanks, Speedy. Yes, she is anxious. She gets anxious at any change. Couldn't even cope with Christmas cards and decorations - they had to come down on Boxing Day. In other words, anxiety is unavoidable, whatever we do.

The colour scheme is deliberately beige/brown, like most of the rest of their house, and it is a very warm room, complete with underfloor heating and towel radiator. It shouldn't feel claustrophobic to her since it is the same room and, if anything, is more open than before.

We did investigate half a dozen different bath lifts first but a bath lift wouldn't help Dad. The walk-in shower/wetroom was a compromise that, in theory, worked for both of them. We'll certainly try a powered bath seat in the other bathroom, if necessary, but I think she'll object to that as much as the new shower, just because it's new and different. When my Dad bought a new vacuum cleaner, he had to keep the old one for her benefit - not that she does any cleaning, but she likes to think she does.

 

[Logan]

Just a thought

How about if you, and Dad, put on your swimming trunks (for decency sake) and both go into the wet room and say how lovely it is etc - let Mum see you having a good time with "lots of lovely water". Could be she will want to join in. As I say - just a thought, but anything worth trying. Lx

 

[DaveH]

I don't have any answers, we have ghe same trouble with mum. When I was a carer some years ago we managed with a bath seat which really just enabled a good all over wash and a good soothing foot and leg soak. Now that I have the illness myself one of my biggest fears for the future is around bathing. Having a bath has alwaysd been my ultimate comfort and I dread the thought of being difficult about washing. One thing I do remember about the friend I cared for is that when we did insist or they insisted at the hospital he always liked the finished producvt so much that it seeemed worth the trauma for us all. I've told my family they they MUST make me have a bath no matter how much I protest in the future . But whether they will be able to - who knows.

Hello Shelagh. The future must be a frightening place for you, as it is for me - I suspect I'm going the same way as my Mum. It sounds as though we really should try a bath lift for her, because she has always tended to bath rather than shower. Or we could change the bath to a hip bath, as we did for my mother-in-law with great success. In fact, though, my mother-in-law normally uses the hip bath as a sit-down shower and loves it (having never had a shower in her life before), which is why we hoped my Mum would adapt to a shower. Decisions, decisions.

 

[DaveH]

Here's a suggestion, -- Is it possible to cut off the water supply to the bath-taps? (or hand-tighten them so mum can't turn them on) Tell mum there's a fault with them or the pressure or something, and it will be a couple of weeks before it can be fixed?
My dad had a walk-in shower fitted and his bath removed due to problems getting in and out of the bath.
This was a few months before he began with symptoms of dementia, but even so it took him a while to get used to the shower. I think making sure the room is warm is important, and don't have the water coming out too forcefully -- it should be like warm, gentle rain!

Good thinking, sleepless. I've spoken to my Dad and he's going to lock the bathroom door from the outside and tell her the catch is faulty, to see if we can get her to try the shower. Hopefully the lovely warm floor will encourage her. Good idea to keep the flow gentle, we'll do that.

 

[DaveH]

We use a bath lift for my mum. It's just like a chair that is operated with a battery pack control pad to go up and down into the water. There are lots of different models available - some the back of the seat reclines so that you can lie and soak and others the back is rigid.

Ours was provided through the occupational therapist but if you google bath lifts I'm sure you'll find something that might fit the bill.

Thanks mowood. We must have checked out at least half a dozen different types of bath lift. The problem is that it would still be something new and she'd object. She can barely walk because of the Parkinson's and yet, because of the dementia, insists there's nothing wrong with her and won't use the walking sticks, frames or wheelchair we've acquired for her. If we put a lift in the bath, I feel sure she'd refuse to get in. We may yet have to test that theory though.

 

[DaveH]

There are some great new products out there to help your mum get out of the bath. A bath cushion might help. If she can get in the bath easily on her own you could leave it deflated so that she can get it independently and bath as usual and then use the cushion to gently lift her out. They sell them in a number of places, Moderator's Note: Link removed in line with Talking Point's Terms and Conditions


Hope it helps

Thanks for the link, Donna. I reckon that would be the best type for her, in that it wouldn't look like anything significant when it was deflated and she was getting in. I imagine it would be awkward to clean, but that would be a small price to pay, if she'd actually use it.

 

[DaveH]

How about if you, and Dad, put on your swimming trunks (for decency sake) and both go into the wet room and say how lovely it is etc - let Mum see you having a good time with "lots of lovely water". Could be she will want to join in. As I say - just a thought, but anything worth trying. Lx

Yes, good thinking, we'll try that, Logan. Or at least my Dad will - I think I might opt out of a threesome! Seriously, it's a lovely room and I feel sure she'd enjoy using it, if we could get her to try it. One of the reasons we went for a wetroom is that, in investigating recently built or refurbished care homes (in anticipation of needing one for her in a year or two), they nearly all majored on wetrooms rather than bathrooms. Carers put on waterproof overclothes and get in there with their patients. Our logic was that, if it works for people like Richmond Homes (and especially since Mum is likely to finish up there one day), now seems like a good idea to get her used to the idea. We'll see.

I'll try and post a couple of photos of the room a little later.

 

[DaveH]

Photos, as promised. We have three different chairs for her to choose between - with/without arms and wheels.

 

[Speedy]

Hi again, just looking at the lovely photos, can see it's wonderful, but was wondering if the floor was too confusing for her?

 

[DaveH]

Hi again, just looking at the lovely photos, can see it's wonderful, but was wondering if the floor was too confusing for her?

Interesting point, although it isn't as gaudy as it might look in the photos. It's actually very similar to the vinyl they had before and was chosen for that reason. She hasn't so far found any fault with the room itself and doesn't mind going in there. It's just that, as far as she's concerned (1) it was a waste of money, they didn't need a new bathroom (there's no point in reminding her she couldn't get out of the bath, she has no recollection of that even after 5 minutes) (2) she wants a bath, not a shower.

 

[Speedy]

Hi David, I understand now, it's difficult to get the picture in a short post, hope your Dad's enjoying it. It's really despiriting when you think you ahve hit on the answer and they have other ideas.

 

[nicoise]

Hello DaveH,

My mum also completely resists showering - she too is a Parkinson's and now LBD sufferer.

Some years prior to dementia, her unsteadiness and extrememe anxiety due to the Parkinson's first stopped the baths she loved, then showering by herself. So she had a wetroom fitted - self funded, but designed by SS Occupational therapists as per guidelines - with a slightly sloping floor of a vinyl type (with gritty bits in it to make it non-slip) with a type of covered-but-open plug which allows drainage. Lots of ££££! There are numerous hand holds, and a drop down seat, and a simple button operation for the shower etc etc...

She has never used this shower. She hated it the minute it was in. Numerous reasons why she didn't like it; I suspect anxiety, fear of falling, and the fear of change and new situations - even though this was all driven by her. She carried on using another unadapted shower until her sudden decline last year.

I guess if you can afford to try the various options such as bath hoist etc, perhaps it is worth having a go at these ideas as well in case you find the magic solution that all can cope with.

In 10 months, mum has showered properly twice - once with a carer - which she was incredibly angry about - and once with myself, standing in there & getting wet, modesty towels etc for mum. She loved the feeling afterwards, but the anxiety for her was so great that she really will not give in.

So back to strip washing - with a lovely, expensive, safe, walk-in shower used 10 times (by visiting family!) in 5 years sitting unwanted.

Sometimes you try all the solutions you can think of and have to give in to what gets the job done with least upset all round....

 

[DaveH]

Hello DaveH,

My mum also completely resists showering - she too is a Parkinson's and now LBD sufferer.

Some years prior to dementia, her unsteadiness and extrememe anxiety due to the Parkinson's first stopped the baths she loved, then showering by herself. So she had a wetroom fitted - self funded, but designed by SS Occupational therapists as per guidelines - with a slightly sloping floor of a vinyl type (with gritty bits in it to make it non-slip) with a type of covered-but-open plug which allows drainage. Lots of ££££! There are numerous hand holds, and a drop down seat, and a simple button operation for the shower etc etc...

She has never used this shower. She hated it the minute it was in. Numerous reasons why she didn't like it; I suspect anxiety, fear of falling, and the fear of change and new situations - even though this was all driven by her. She carried on using another unadapted shower until her sudden decline last year.

I guess if you can afford to try the various options such as bath hoist etc, perhaps it is worth having a go at these ideas as well in case you find the magic solution that all can cope with.

In 10 months, mum has showered properly twice - once with a carer - which she was incredibly angry about - and once with myself, standing in there & getting wet, modesty towels etc for mum. She loved the feeling afterwards, but the anxiety for her was so great that she really will not give in.

So back to strip washing - with a lovely, expensive, safe, walk-in shower used 10 times (by visiting family!) in 5 years sitting unwanted.

Sometimes you try all the solutions you can think of and have to give in to what gets the job done with least upset all round....

Wow. Thanks Nicoise. I should have spoken to you before embarking on the shower room project. I can very well believe all you say and suspect we'll finish up in the same situation.

It's important to understand that we did this as much for my Dad (carer) as much as Mum, though. He has great difficulty getting his leg over a bath rim and in any case prefers to shower, so the wet room is great for him. We have to look after the carer so that he can look after the patient.

But, of course, we were hoping Mum would use it too. I'll report back, in due course, on whether she does. Certainly, at a couple of care homes we looked at, patients were given no choice, so if we can just get Dad to be firm there may be a chance.

The best compromise may have been a hip bath for Mum to use as a bath and Dad to use as a shower tray, but I feel Mum would have rejected that too which is why, in the end, we decided, for once, to go for what was best for Dad.

Fingers crossed. Updates to follow.

 

[Izzy]

Good luck Dave. x