Mums inappropriate behaviour.

[lynniejoan]

I am new to TP but have regularly used the forum over the last 12 months and have always been able to find a thread that will cover any problems I have had however I now find myself needing to ask for advice.
My Mother has vascular dementia and has been resident at a dementia care home for the last 11 months and after a difficult start is now settled and quite happy. I am happy with the care she recieves.
When I visited today one of the senior carers ask to have a private chat with me. Mum has struck up a friendship with a new male resident. This was encouraged as she does not have many friends, she is a lot more chatty than the others and cannot tolerate them being unable to communicate as well, even though she says the same things over and over again. Mum does not come out of her room very often, is quite terratorial over it, but this new friendship meant she was coming out and joining in a bit more. He has been sitting in her room, they keep an eye of them and he is gererally just reading, however yesterday evening they were found in bed together with Mom on top of him and no clothes on her top half. The CH have report this to Protection (whatever that it) and are going to speak to her social worker. I am really worried about this as I would hate for Mum to be moved, she is funded. I don't blame this man as I am sure it is a 50/50 thing.
I would be grateful for any advice. Thank you.

 

[sistermillicent]

I am not sure what the right thing is to do in this situation but feel you need some response to your post. my suggestion is that you get in touch with the social worker too, and insist on a face to face meeting with him/her. It sounds as though the care home has done the right thing in reporting this, but how much responsibility are they going to take in ensuring it does not happen again? If you haven't already asked them about all this and had a good long meeting with the manager I would be asking for this very quickly.

It must be really distressing for you knowing that your mum is not safe, whether that is from herself or from another. In your position I would be insisting on her having a room that was more easily monitored by the home, or even asking if they could put a camera in there and link it to somewhere the nurses could see what is going on. Maybe that is invading her privacy, I expect not everyone would agree. I would also be asking that the man is moved to a different home even though I know you said it might well be 50/50.

No easy answers I'm afraid as far as I know. Hope you get something more helpful.

 

[Butter]

This is something I have seen discussed here a number of times. My mother was never in her own bed during one period - always in a male resident's - and the staff repeatedly and gently returned her to her own room.

Sometimes the family of the other residents are not happy. Sometimes the carehome is not happy. I think you can make it clear that you have a relaxed view of the situation - maybe you need to make that clear to everyone because there are so many different opinions/cultures/beliefs at work here.

Personally, I would be be very relaxed about it. In fact, I'm afraid I was amused as far as my mother was concerned. It was the very least of our worries. And I think she gained comfort and confidence for a while.

 

[zeeeb]

I find it quite unbelievable that the "instituationalisation" in this scenario takes over. Honestly, if you're mum has no issue, if the man has no issue, if neither party were forced or coerced into doing something, what's the problem. Sure, nobody wants to watch 2 wrinkly old bodies carrying on like a pair of teenagers, but if it gives them a moment of happiness within their otherwise dull or tormented day, why not?

I hope that the family of this man are ok with it, and make sure it is known to staff that you don't have a problem with your mum getting a bit of happiness (if that's how you feel). And hope that the stupid rules and reporting will fall away.

 

[Mamsgirl]

Gosh, what an athletic mother you have LJ!

I once organised a 100th birthday party for a wonderful woman whose last physical relationship was at 97! Her toy-boy was in his late 70s, and after a few months his family moved him to another home. All N said was that she missed having another body close, possibly the saddest thing I've ever heard.

This morning I hugged Mum, a recent widow, on the way to the car, and as she kept hugging me she said "I needed that. To be hugged properly. By someone who cares".

Guess you can tell what my reaction to the home would be, and always bearing in mind dementia's tendency toward disinhibition, that it be factored into the scenario.

Good luck

 

[Mamsgirl]

Actually, I hadn't thought of whether either of them have a surviving spouse. That would be a total game changer for me....

 

[Jessbow]

Don't discourage their friendship but keep them out of the bedroom?

Very much depends on what you yourself ( and perhaps mums other children) feel.

I think you be hard pressed to insist he moved rather than your Mum though. If his family are equally happy with his care they wont want him moved either.

I guess there might come a point that you'll have to discuss with his family[ have clear in your mind what YOU feel. What anyone else feels is really irrelevant. You seem to be taking a very sensible line so far. ( 50/50)

 

[copsham]

""if you're mum has no issue, if the man has no issue, ................if it gives them a moment of happiness within their otherwise dull or tormented day, why not? ""

I agree with what Zeeb said. Providing neither is co erced, forced or abused it must be lovely to have a bit of physicalness. Can they not have a bit of freedom, comfort or familiarity in order to meet their own needs? One problem is that many adults around them will not agree with this view. It seems to need some real professional input sitting down with home manager, key worker and next of kin to decide on an agreed way forward and give direction to all involved.

If man does have issue how can your mum's needs be met in another way, "proper hugs " by visitors, staff giving hand massages and hugs at appropriate times, head massage etc. This might help if she is wanting physical contact in general.

Dementia certainly raises dilemma after dilemma!

 

[2jays]

A difficult one

Mum and a male resident became "an item" after 2 weeks of meeting.
There was no "funny business", as mum would say, but they enjoyed each others company.

One month after meeting, they were both convinced they had been together years, so when we "split them" for Christmas, it was not taken very well by them. They couldn't understand why we didn't all spend Christmas together.

4 months after they met. Mum began to question what was "wrong" with him, got agitated that "no one understands there is something wrong with him and needs to go somewhere to get help" and wanted them both to move somewhere suitable, so she would get support to look after him.....

It went downhill fast from there. Mum getting more agitated with him, very frustrated by his constant company, angry with the staff they were not doing anything to help her....

We had to move her to another care home and she is happier (blessing in disguise as new care home far better than other one)

She often comments that she is worried that her two partners J and my stepfather who died 4 years ago, haven't been to visit recently, and would turn up together to visit her. She has such vitriol towards J when ever she talks about him

When they first "got together" we didn't see a problem as they had each other for company. As each of their dementia progressed, it became a major problem. I'm not sure if it did because mum has vascular dementia and J has Alzheimer's may have been a contributing factor, in that J is a mild mannered, gentle soul, appearing happy (not necessarily the right word) in his world, whereas mum had more understanding (again not sure if that's the right word) and anger of the world around her.

All I would advise is think very very carefully about this "relationship"
For mum and J it was a comfort which became a nightmare for them. J couldn't get away from mum, and mum couldn't leave J alone to be "neglected" and was resentful.

 

[jaymor]

They are doing the most natural and comforting thing a couple can do. As long as they get privacy and both are consenting it should be fine. The 'pleasures of the flesh' are not just for the under forties.

If there are spouses then for them it could be very distressing. My husband lost me nearly two years ago, he speaks of me to his carers as his wife but does not recognise me as his wife so he knows he has a wife but does not recognise her. How I would feel I don't know. In his mind I exist but in reality I don't. Writing this I think I could accept it, if it happens it might be different, I just don't know. Just another problem to deal with when living with dementia.

Jay

 

[sue38]

I don't think their age should have anything to do with it. For me it's about consent, and whether they are able to understand what they are consenting to. What if your mum changed her mind about the level of intimacy she was comfortable with? Would she be able to communicate her views, and would the other person understand or accept what she was no longer comfortable with?

At my dad's care home a new resident (male) who had very recently and suddenly lost his wife started up a friendship/relationship with a female resident, whose husband was very much alive and visited everyday. Both residents were physically fit, but their dementia was quite advanced. I don't know how far their intimacy went in private, but in public there was intimate kissing. One day when I visited the male resident had been moved to another care home as he had seriously assaulted the female resident. I don't know exactly what led to this, but clearly things had gone seriously wrong.

For that reason I think it's right to involve the SW to check that both are protected.

 

[Mamsgirl]

Ah Jay, I know I'm projecting, but my heart aches to think of your husband losing you, big, over-emotional hugs, Toni xxx

 

[Mipsi]

If two people can still form a comforting relationship despite the difficulties dementia brings, it shows how strong the human spirit is! To suggest splitting them up seems inhuman and treating them as if they haven't got the same needs for love and companionship as the rest of us. I have to say that that suggestion made me feel quite despondent.

I would have thought that the care home monitoring the relationship would have been the only way to go. This isn't unusual and most care homes deal with such situations sensitively. With dementia, our loved ones have changed but still need companionship and the touch of another human being.

 

[Latitude]

My parents are happily married but my Mum is now in a care facility awaiting diagnosis of what looks like fairly advanced dementia. Dad visits as often as he can, which is around 2-3 times a week. Mum has a "special male friend" in the same care facility and increasingly their closeness is becoming physical, touching, kissing etc. Staff have mentioned it casually in passing. But I get the impression there is more to this than we are being told and really don't know what to do. When asked they give out gave platitudes whilst hinting at more. I understand these "friendships" are not uncommon but how do we deal with this and protect both my parents?