Continuing healthcare

Jaydee60

Registered User
May 9, 2017
4
0
Hello everyone. I have not posted previously but have followed threads on Talking Point for around 2 years. My dad was diagnosed with AZ several years ago after my mum and I went to see his GP in desperation. We had some pretty traumatic times before and after diagnosis until he eventually went for a month's respite after 5 nights of no sleep for my mum and a bout of increased aggressive behaviour towards her. I came across this site after a nurse in the care home mentioned sundowning which I had not heard of before. Although I have not joined in any discussions, I have found the threads about your experiences really helpful and supportive. As is often said on the site, it can be a great comfort to know that others are going through similar situations and to read how everyone has coped (or tried to). My dad sadly passed away in January after a month of continued deterioration and I find it ironic that I am now asking for your advice as I am unsure what to do to assist my mum.

My dad had an initial continuing health care assessment early in September 2016, when he was found to be eligible for a full assessment/ MDT discussion and my mum was told she would be contacted in about a month. I asked at the home in November if they had heard anything about my dad's case and was told that there was a backlog of residents to be seen. We did see social workers arriving for meetings on a couple of occasions. I rang the CCG assessor on 6th January 2017 to ask what was happening with his case and was told that a social worker had now been allocated, they were meeting that afternoon to discuss him and my mum would be sent a date for the MDT meeting in due course. I was told any funding awarded would be backdated.
Just before Christmas my dad started with mild diarrhoea. His ability to swallow then deteriorated and he had a trip to A&E/overnight hospital stay on 9th January 2017 after he was found unresponsive by care home staff and was resuscitated. He perked up briefly due to the fluids he was given but died less than 2 weeks later after his ability to swallow went completely.

I rang the CCG team a couple of months after he died to ask what was happening about his case to be told that it had been closed due to his death. I was not expecting this as I thought if he was felt to be entitled to any funding that this would have been paid to his estate as it was not his fault or that of my mum that CCG staff and social workers dragged their feet in taking forward his case. My parents have never been particularly well off (dad was just over the £14000ish limit with savings and had a very small private pension and so was partially funded by social services) and any financial assistance would have been of great help to them.

Is it correct that a person's potential eligibility for CHC funding just stops if they die before their MDT meeting has taken place? I do appreciate that it may have been decided at MDT that my dad should not get any funding. My point is that he and my mum were not given the opportunity to find out if this was the case.

I apologise for the length of my post and also if this issue has already been covered on the site. I have looked through a number of threads about CHC but have not come across anything which specifically mentions this scenario. I would appreciate comments from anyone who has gone through a similar situation, or is aware of someone who has, and thank you in anticipation of your replies.

Regards Jaydee60
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
5,735
0
Midlands
What are you actually looking to achieve?

A refund of your fathers contribution for the couple of months between the initial request for assessment for eligibility and your fathers death a couple of months later? 3 months?
 

AlsoConfused

Registered User
Sep 17, 2010
1,952
0
I think the information you've been given is wrong - unless rules have changed. You certainly used to be able to reclaim CHC back to the date when the checklist was first done. In our case, that was over a year ago!!!:mad:
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,513
0
Near Southampton
A similar thing happens to my husband except that the MDT meeting which was 9 months after the CHC assessment was cancelled by the CCG the previous day due to the non-receipt of a report from his SW. As he had never seen a SW since he entered the nursing home 3 years earlier and indeed the local dept responsible had no record of him, any report would have been of no use anyway!

No other date was arranged and my husband died a month later. Eventually about 3 months later, having heard nothing from the CCG, I rang them and was told that they were aware my husband had died and his case would therefore go to the panel and no, I would not be able to attend.

Not expecting anything positive to come from this, even though my husband had multiple severe health problems apart from those connected to dementia but was not violent, I just put it to one side and waited.

Nearly 2 years later I received the report and the full DST. Of course the funding was refused even though the records and examples presented by his nurse showed that the relevant criteria was clearly met and the CCG in their infinite wisdom contradicted their own guidelines in a number of places. I was given 6 months to appeal but I'm afraid I balked at the idea of having to return to the paperwork I had meticulously prepared for the original meeting and felt I couldn't cope with having to relive my husband's trauma in a meeting with people who had no understanding of what he had gone through.
His nurse had given excellent examples and they didn't believe her so they were hardly likely to believe me, especially so long after the event. So I let it lie.
You may be more fortunate.

p.s. My husband's original application was for both retrospective and current CHC funding. I assumed the former would of course have been dependent upon him being granted the latter.
 
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Jaydee60

Registered User
May 9, 2017
4
0
What are you actually looking to achieve?

A refund of your fathers contribution for the couple of months between the initial request for assessment for eligibility and your fathers death a couple of months later? 3 months?

A refund of contributions for this period would be helpful for my mum as this would be just under £2000.
 

Jaydee60

Registered User
May 9, 2017
4
0
A similar thing happens to my husband except that the MDT meeting which was 9 months after the CHC assessment was cancelled by the CCG the previous day due to the non-receipt of a report from his SW. As he had never seen a SW since he entered the nursing home 3 years earlier and indeed the local dept responsible had no record of him, any report would have been of no use anyway!

No other date was arranged and my husband died a month later. Eventually about 3 months later, having heard nothing from the CCG, I rang them and was told that they were aware my husband had died and his case would therefore go to the panel and no, I would not be able to attend.

Not expecting anything positive to come from this, even though my husband had multiple severe health problems apart from those connected to dementia but was not violent, I just put it to one side and waited.

Nearly 2 years later I received the report and the full DST. Of course the funding was refused even though the records and examples presented by his nurse showed that the relevant criteria was clearly met and the CCG in their infinite wisdom contradicted their own guidelines in a number of places. I was given 6 months to appeal but I'm afraid I balked at the idea of having to return to the paperwork I had meticulously prepared for the original meeting and felt I couldn't cope with having to relive my husband's trauma in a meeting with people who had no understanding of what he had gone through.
His nurse had given excellent examples and they didn't believe her so they were hardly likely to believe me, especially so long after the event. So I let it lie.
You may be more fortunate.

p.s. My husband's original application was for both retrospective and current CHC funding. I assumed the former would of course have been dependent upon him being granted the latter.


Your experience does not fill me with hope Saffie.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
Making Space in conjunction with Manchester University operate a 'Dementia Law Clinic'.

The service is free, initial contact is by email or phone, thereafter it can be by post, phone, email, Skype, or face to face in Manchester and other designated 'hot spots' around the country.

What can we help with?
We can provide advice on many different legal issues surrounding dementia, including:

Advance Decisions (previously known as Advance Directives) to refuse treatment
Community Care Assessments
Continuing Healthcare
Court of Protection
Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards (DoLS)
Disputes of Best Interests for those who lack capacity
Disputes of Mental Capacity
Legal Power of Attorney (LPA)
Provision of care (in relation to care homes)
Trust and Inheritance probate

You could contact them and ask about the legal situation and what options you have.

http://www.makingspace.co.uk/our-services/dementia-law-clinic/

It's a dedicated part of

If we can assist, you will be given an appointment to see two of our trained students under the supervision of a lawyer. The students will gather the necessary information about your case. Only in very exceptional circumstances will advice be given on the day. Usually, the students will send you a letter of advice, approved by the lawyer, within 14 days of the appointment.
http://www.law.manchester.ac.uk/legal-advice-centre/services/
 

Jaydee60

Registered User
May 9, 2017
4
0
Making Space in conjunction with Manchester University operate a 'Dementia Law Clinic'.

The service is free, initial contact is by email or phone, thereafter it can be by post, phone, email, Skype, or face to face in Manchester and other designated 'hot spots' around the country.

What can we help with?
We can provide advice on many different legal issues surrounding dementia, including:

Advance Decisions (previously known as Advance Directives) to refuse treatment
Community Care Assessments
Continuing Healthcare
Court of Protection
Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards (DoLS)
Disputes of Best Interests for those who lack capacity
Disputes of Mental Capacity
Legal Power of Attorney (LPA)
Provision of care (in relation to care homes)
Trust and Inheritance probate

You could contact them and ask about the legal situation and what options you have.


It's a dedicated part of

If we can assist, you will be given an appointment to see two of our trained students under the supervision of a lawyer. The students will gather the necessary information about your case. Only in very exceptional circumstances will advice be given on the day. Usually, the students will send you a letter of advice, approved by the lawyer, within 14 days of the appointment.



Thank you nitram that is very helpful.
 

Jrob1

New member
Oct 22, 2017
2
0
A similar thing happens to my husband except that the MDT meeting which was 9 months after the CHC assessment was cancelled by the CCG the previous day due to the non-receipt of a report from his SW. As he had never seen a SW since he entered the nursing home 3 years earlier and indeed the local dept responsible had no record of him, any report would have been of no use anyway!

No other date was arranged and my husband died a month later. Eventually about 3 months later, having heard nothing from the CCG, I rang them and was told that they were aware my husband had died and his case would therefore go to the panel and no, I would not be able to attend.

Not expecting anything positive to come from this, even though my husband had multiple severe health problems apart from those connected to dementia but was not violent, I just put it to one side and waited.

Nearly 2 years later I received the report and the full DST. Of course the funding was refused even though the records and examples presented by his nurse showed that the relevant criteria was clearly met and the CCG in their infinite wisdom contradicted their own guidelines in a number of places. I was given 6 months to appeal but I'm afraid I balked at the idea of having to return to the paperwork I had meticulously prepared for the original meeting and felt I couldn't cope with having to relive my husband's trauma in a meeting with people who had no understanding of what he had gone through.
His nurse had given excellent examples and they didn't believe her so they were hardly likely to believe me, especially so long after the event. So I let it lie.
You may be more fortunate.

p.s. My husband's original application was for both retrospective and current CHC funding. I assumed the former would of course have been dependent upon him being granted the latter.
Hi there
My first time on this website. Just read your post. My mother was recommended by the NHS to go into care after a long spell in hospital, having Falls IT I and the getting norovirus. She was diagnosed with dementia 3yrs ago and after a very stressful period at home has been at her current care home for 2.5yrs. Recently we had a letter to say she was being assessed and a social worker was going to be present with the assessor for the LA. There was no social worker and the assessor seemed determined to mark mum down on every criteria. It was quite heated. My mum can't stand walk. Doubly incontinent has thicker in fluid and pureed food. Now and again spreads faeces. Doesn't always know who we are or where she is. We had the care home notes but they were inconsistent. SALT report and DOLS report. We received a letter yesterday to say the CC1 funding would stop next month. How is it right after 2.5yrs they can suddenly decide she no longer comes under nursing care? She is older and her dementia is worse. The panel over rode the assessors decision on mobility had her as low! We will appeal but just wondered if anyone has had a similar scenario. Or any advice appreciated.
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,513
0
Near Southampton
Hi there
My first time on this website. Just read your post. My mother was recommended by the NHS to go into care after a long spell in hospital, having Falls IT I and the getting norovirus. She was diagnosed with dementia 3yrs ago and after a very stressful period at home has been at her current care home for 2.5yrs. Recently we had a letter to say she was being assessed and a social worker was going to be present with the assessor for the LA. There was no social worker and the assessor seemed determined to mark mum down on every criteria. It was quite heated. My mum can't stand walk. Doubly incontinent has thicker in fluid and pureed food. Now and again spreads faeces. Doesn't always know who we are or where she is. We had the care home notes but they were inconsistent. SALT report and DOLS report. We received a letter yesterday to say the CC1 funding would stop next month. How is it right after 2.5yrs they can suddenly decide she no longer comes under nursing care? She is older and her dementia is worse. The panel over rode the assessors decision on mobility had her as low! We will appeal but just wondered if anyone has had a similar scenario. Or any advice appreciated.

Are you saying your mother has been in receipt of CHC funding? I know that incontinence and lack of cognition -which also applied to my husband as they do to many dementia sufferers - are mainly social problems and as such don’t usually warrant the funding so am a bit surprised if that is so though falls are another matter and of course different areas apply different criteria. I have not heard of CC1 funding and thought that one either received CHC funding or the lesser weekly nursing allowance which usually goes straight to the nursing home - or nothing. I have never heard of this latter payment being discontinued.

My husband had transferred straight from hospital nine months after undergoing an upper thigh amputation which hadn’t healed completely . He had already had gangrene in his remaining foot due to being made to stand on it by nurses in the second hospital (mental health) against instruction and he was completely immobile. However, the assessor said he was only a B for mobility because he did not put up a fight when hoisted.
He also had insulin dependent diabetes, stage 4 kidney disease, a grade 4 pressure sore on his hand which nobody seems able to treat, was in permanent pain, was on epilepsy medication as he’d suffered seizures, along with seemingly masses of other medication. Oh and he also had a heart murmur and was, but his needs were not medical apparently.

I hope you manage to get somewhere but I’m afraid I didn’t have the strength to tackle the CCG after my husband died. It was the fact that the CCG didn’t accept how poorly he was which angered me rather than the money Itself and I am reasonably resigned and content that he received good care which, in the end, is what really matters to me.

Sorry I’ve only just realised that you are a new member. Welcome to TP. You will find a lot of help and support here. It is a fantastic site.
Take a look at the following thread. It might provide some help for you if you are appealing.
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/threads/chc-continuing-healthcare-support-thread.86059/
 
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