Solicitor grooming my mother?

Magpie28

Registered User
Apr 14, 2017
11
0
This is my first post. Last year I moved more than 200 miles to look after my mother (in her 80s) who is developing dementia and couldn't manage paperwork, cooking, shopping, washing-up etc. I was getting exhausted making frequent trips responding to crises (e.g. she'd had a fall; her dog died; all her money and cards had been stolen - not) and sorting things out for her. I'd had to give up full-time work to do this. She was in agreement with me moving to live closer to her, and I documented for her our discussions and the reasoning behind this decision.
But once I was living close by and visiting her every day, she became suspicious and hostile towards me, influenced by a couple of acquaintances who don't know me, who thought my motives were questionable. I can't emphasise enough how unhelpful it is when people take at face value what my mother tells them and then feed it back to her and so reinforce the delusional thinking.
She kept threatening to revoke the PoA and ordering me to pack my bags and go home, usually while we were eating a meal I'd just spent an hour preparing for her. So after six months I've just moved back to my home and my husband (who's been a saint for putting up with all of this). I have a recording of what she said to me the day I decided I had to leave.
Her hostess mode is very convincing to people who don't know her well. She has had a brain scan but hasn't yet been given a diagnosis of dementia (although at least two professionals have told me she definitely has it, probably vascular dementia).
Anyway, my main concern now is the solicitor who has emailed me saying he's been calling her every day for a fortnight since I left, which I think is very odd. He understands from her that there's been a complete breakdown in communication (which there hasn't, we are still in touch by phone) and he's been talking to her about drawing up a new PoA and changing her attorneys (my brother is the other one and has supported me in everything I have done). My brother and I have responded saying that we think it would be unwise of him to take instructions from someone with dementia who is showing the classic signs of paranoia towards their closest carer. But I am worried he might continue to take advantage and appoint himself perhaps as her sole attorney. This is the same solicitor that we approached in February to ask him to register the Enduring PoA with the Office of the Public Guardian, because we were concerned that our mother was losing capacity, and he just sat on it, and now he's approached my mother and fuelled her demented thoughts that I'm not to be trusted. Which is ridiculous after what I went through with the sole purpose of helping her continue to live independently in her own home.
 

RedLou

Registered User
Jul 30, 2014
1,161
0
If it were me I'd do a joint letter with my brother saying you are going to report him to the Law Society about his conduct should he continue.
 

Magpie28

Registered User
Apr 14, 2017
11
0
If it were me I'd do a joint letter with my brother saying you are going to report him to the Law Society about his conduct should he continue.
Thank you RedLou, I think we might have to do this, and possibly spend money (which neither of us has) on getting a lawyer to fire a warning shot across his bows. My concern is that the solicitor now working for our mother could defend his actions saying he believes she has the capacity to make a decision. And unfortunately the standard tests for D seem to require the condition to be quite advanced, and they do not test for paranoia or delusions. Something I didn't mention before, the solicitor sent an 'independent' consultant psychiatrist to assess my mother. He arrived at my mother's and completed his assessment half an hour before his appointment, so he was leaving just as I arrived. He told me he thought she had capacity to make a decision.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
"He told me he thought she had capacity to make a decision."

Capacity is to make a specific decision at a certain time.

Having 'capacity' does not necessarily mean that she is fully capable of handling all her finances on a continuous basis.

Attorneys have a legal duty to register an EPA with the OPG if the donor 'starts to loose mental capacity'.

https://www.gov.uk/enduring-power-attorney-duties/register-an-enduring-power-of-attorney
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,389
0
Salford
Hi Magpie, welcome to TP
It all sounds a bit odd, first question would be who exactly is paying for the daily visits for the past fortnight? Solicitors don't work for nothing in my experience, quite the contrary. If they've been doing daily visits of their own volition and charging the client for them when mental capacity is in doubt then it sounds very "strange".
Below is a link to the Law Societies website where it outlines the procedure for making a complaint, it saves the cost of getting another solicitor involved some of whom are reluctant to get involved in disputes with other law firms. All getting 2 law firms involved is to double the bill, I'd go straight to the ombudsman and make a formal complaint.
K

https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/For-the-public/Using-a-Solicitor/Complaints/
 

Pickles53

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
2,474
0
Radcliffe on Trent
If it were me I'd do a joint letter with my brother saying you are going to report him to the Law Society about his conduct should he continue.

Definitely. If the EPOA has been registered, and you and your brother are attorneys acting in your mother 's behalf, he has no status to contact your mother directly seeking instructions or for any other reason. Write a simple clear factual letter to him, send it recorded delivery, tell him that he may not contact your mother again and may not accept instructions from her on any matter. State that you will refer the matter to the Solicitors Regulation Authority if he does not comply. The SRA deal with disciplinary matters concerning solicitors' behaviour and they will take such issues very seriously.

You can call them for an informal chat if you wish to be reassured.
 
Last edited:

Witzend

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
4,283
0
SW London
If it were me I'd do a joint letter with my brother saying you are going to report him to the Law Society about his conduct should he continue.

Me too, that is if there's any suspicion that he's exploiting her vulnerability in pursuit of fat fees.
Sad to say, unscrupulous solicitors are hardly unknown.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
"Has the original LPA been registered now?"

AIUI the original power was an EPA which should not be registered if the donor can operate their finances.

The solicitor seems to be saying EPA cannot be registered and mum has capacity to grant an LPA.

EDIT

If the OP's mum has approached the solicitor requesting an LPA the solicitor has a duty to check that she has capacity to make this request.

As there appears to be contention about mum's capacity, the solicitor has previously refused to register the EPA, the solicitor has obtained a professional assessment.

There has been no factual indication of who mum's new attorney(s) may be.

The OP's best approach is to establish incapacity to fully handle financial affairs which would mean the EPA has to be registered.
 
Last edited:

Magpie28

Registered User
Apr 14, 2017
11
0
Registering Enduring Power of Attorney

"Has the original LPA been registered now?"

AIUI the original power was an EPA which should not be registered if the donor can operate their finances.

The solicitor seems to be saying EPA cannot be registered and mum has capacity to grant an LPA.

EDIT

If the OP's mum has approached the solicitor requesting an LPA the solicitor has a duty to check that she has capacity to make this request.

As there appears to be contention about mum's capacity, the solicitor has previously refused to register the EPA, the solicitor has obtained a professional assessment.

There has been no factual indication of who mum's new attorney(s) may be.

The OP's best approach is to establish incapacity to fully handle financial affairs which would mean the EPA has to be registered.

Thank you for your helpful comments, Sorry, I don't know what AIUI or what OP stand for but I assume OP refers to me, ex-carer for my mother who has dementia.

The EPA hasn't been registered but my brother and I thought it was our duty to register it with the Office of the Public Guardian because our mother is losing capacity and can no longer manage her financial affairs. We thought she would probably object to this because she has had no diagnosis of dementia, and this is why the solicitor didn't follow through with our instructions. He went to see her to assess for himself whether she had capacity, and because her hostess mode was working well he then sent an 'independent' psychologist to assess her, who reported to me afterwards that she definitely has dementia but nevertheless has capacity to make decisions concerning the Power of Attorney.

Am I right that you're suggesting it is now up to me (and my brother) to establish our mother's incapacity to fully handle financial affairs? I wouldn't know where to begin.
 

marionq

Registered User
Apr 24, 2013
6,449
0
Scotland
When our solicitor drew up our POA for husband and I he told us it should be registered straight away before it was needed. It can of course be withdrawn while capacity remains but by the time things have taken a downturn if you try to register it can take many weeks to complete.

Please all of you in this situation register and put in a safe place until needed.
 

Magpie28

Registered User
Apr 14, 2017
11
0
Has the original LPA been registered now?

Hi Saffie, I'm responding at last to all the helpful input from you and others. As you'll see from my response just sent to Nitram, no the Enduring Power of Attorney has not been registered. We instructed the solicitor to send the necessary notice to my mother and to our adult children but he stalled on that. Moreover, he has indicated to my brother and I that if we go to another solicitor to try and register it, he will assist our mother to object to its registration. Incidentally, he holds the original copy.
 

Magpie28

Registered User
Apr 14, 2017
11
0
When our solicitor drew up our POA for husband and I he told us it should be registered straight away before it was needed. It can of course be withdrawn while capacity remains but by the time things have taken a downturn if you try to register it can take many weeks to complete.

Please therefore register and put in a safe place until
Needed.

Hi thank you for your advice. Unfortunately the PoA we have is a pre-2007 Enduring Power of Attorney (EPA). This type has been replaced with POAs for Finance & Property and for Health & Welfare, which I understand can be registered immediately, regardless of whether the person has capacity. The trouble with the old-style EPA is that you have to wait until the person is losing capacity - and that's a grey area. While some individuals are happy to hand over management of their property and finances to one or more of their children, because they trust them, in cases where the dementia is accompanied by paranoia and mistrust it all gets very difficult.
 

Magpie28

Registered User
Apr 14, 2017
11
0
Definitely. If the EPOA has been registered, and you and your brother are attorneys acting in your mother 's behalf, he has no status to contact your mother directly seeking instructions or for any other reason. Write a simple clear factual letter to him, send it recorded delivery, tell him that he may not contact your mother again and may not accept instructions from her on any matter. State that you will refer the matter to the Solicitors Regulation Authority if he does not comply. The SRA deal with disciplinary matters concerning solicitors' behaviour and they will take such issues very seriously.

You can call them for an informal chat if you wish to be reassured.

Hello Pickles, that's useful information, thank you. The EPoA hasn't been registered and that's the problem. Instead of following our instructions to send out the necessary notices to get it registered, the solicitor approached our mother to see for himself whether she was losing capacity and decided he wasn't sure, so he then sent an 'independent' psychiatrist whose assessment was mixed: yes, she has dementia, but yes she can make decisions (which was handy for his friend the solicitor who appointed him to go there). Having thus established contact with my mother, the solicitor then continued to have dialogue with her and she believed she had contacted him to revoke the POA, whereas it was he who approached her and found her very receptive to the idea of drawing up a new POA.

Your suggestion that I should call the Solicitors Regulation Authority sounds good and I will ask for an informal chat. I hope that the solicitor is acting properly and will suggest to my mother that she keeps her existing attorneys. But I am worried that he might have other motives because it's very odd that he's been calling her every day.
 

Magpie28

Registered User
Apr 14, 2017
11
0
Hi Maggie, welcome to TP
It all sounds a bit odd, first question would be who exactly is paying for the daily visits for the past fortnight? Solicitors don't work for nothing in my experience, quite the contrary. If they've been doing daily visits of their own volition and charging the client for them when mental capacity is in doubt then it sounds very "strange".
Below is a link to the Law Societies website where it outlines the procedure for making a complaint, it saves the cost of getting another solicitor involved some of whom are reluctant to get involved in disputes with other law firms. All getting 2 law firms involved is to double the bill, I'd go straight to the ombudsman and make a formal complaint.
K

<<Link to Law Society website>>

Thank you very much for that suggestion and for the link which I've had to delete as I haven't done enough posts yet to be allowed to include them! I will have a look at the complaints procedure. On the first occasion when the solicitor visited my mother, I was there and my mother asked about fees. He made a big thing about the fact he hadn't opened a file at that stage. He sat very close to her and said lots of things that sounded like he was reassuring her and that he was her friend.

My mother is always extremely reluctant to part with money, so I hope that at the point where he mentions fees for all his time phoning her every day, and visiting her at least twice, and sending a consultant psychiatrist, she will tell him she's not interested! However, I'm afraid his plan might be to take advantage of her memory loss, because she won't remember what they actually agreed or understand what she's actually signing. By speaking to her on her own without anyone else present to witness what's said, he could be up to no good.

You see, I think he's been feeding back to her her own paranoid suspicions about me, and this resonates with her and so she thinks he's a friend and that she was right all along about me.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
Another option is for your mother to revoke the EPA sending the deed of revocation https://www.gov.uk/use-or-cancel-an-enduring-power-of-attorney to the solicitor to file with the unregistered EPA.

At the same time she could apply for an LPA.

As the solicitor had your mum's capacity confirmed by a consultant I find it difficult to see how they could reject the revocation. If they did reject it on grounds of incapacity surely they should then agree to the EPA being registered.


~~~~

OP - original poster.
AIUI - as I understand it.

https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?26388-Abbreviations-List-and-Talking-Point-Jargon

Except that AIUI is not included!
 

Magpie28

Registered User
Apr 14, 2017
11
0
Unscrupulous solicitors

Me too, that is if there's any suspicion that he's exploiting her vulnerability in pursuit of fat fees.
Sad to say, unscrupulous solicitors are hardly unknown.

Thank you, that's what I fear. I was hoping my post might prompt one or two replies from people who have experienced this situation. I'm sure it can't be unique to me.
 

Magpie28

Registered User
Apr 14, 2017
11
0
Another option is for your mother to revoke the EPA sending the deed of revocation to the solicitor to file with the unregistered EPA.

At the same time she could apply for an LPA.

As the solicitor had your mum's capacity confirmed by a consultant I find it difficult to see how they could reject the revocation. If they did reject it on grounds of incapacity surely they should then agree to the EPA being registered.


~~~~

OP - original poster.
AIUI - as I understand it.


Except that AIUI is not included!

Ah, thank you for the translation. I think you're right, I think that's exactly what the solicitor is planning to assist my mother to do: revoke the original EPOA and replace it with an up to date POA. I would have no objection to that if my brother and I were appointed attorneys for the new POA. But the solicitor hasn't given us any indication that we will be retained as attorneys. So I suspect he's angling to make himself an attorney, possibly the sole attorney.

My concern is that if/when I am sacked as her attorney, I'll no longer be able to help her by checking her account when she has 'lost' all her money or the cash machine has swallowed her card and her money; I won't be able to pay contractors for her by BACS; I won't be able to order groceries for her online; I won't be able to pay her gardener or her cleaner if she is unable to for any reason. I don't think she understands any of this, or what it will cost her if she hands over these duties to a solicitor. She is falling hook, line and sinker for his persuasive charms.

More than that, it would cause a severe breakdown in family relationships. By taking such action she would be demonstrating that she doesn't trust me or my brother to look after her needs. Again, playing straight into the hands of the solicitor who is engineering this. I guess. I don't know for certain what he's up to.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,319
0
Bury
If your mother has capacity to grant an LPA the choice of attorney(s) is entirely hers.

The obvious choice is the attorney(s) named in the EPA.

It may just be that the solicitor wants to update the unregistered EPA to an LPA and does not think it appropriate to discuss choice of the LPA attorney(s) with anybody.
 

sue38

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
10,849
0
55
Wigan, Lancs
There are a couple of problems with the old fashioned EPA that you don't have with the new LPA:

Firstly you have to register and can only register when the donor has become or is becoming mentally incapable. The donor has to be served with a notice that you are applying to register and by implication that you are of the view they are becoming mentally incapable. That in itself can cause friction. Secondly you have to notify at least 3 nearest relatives which can mean involving relatives you've had nothing to do with for years. An LPA gets rid of both of these issues, so as long as the costs are not prohibitive a new LPA might be worthwhile doing.

Looking at it from the solicitor's point of view - your mother is his client and he has to protect her best interests. If the EPA is registered your mother would no longer be allowed to manage her own financial affairs so he has to ensure that your mum is indeed becoming mentally incapable before acting on the instructions of his client's children. He visits your mother to assess her capacity and is unsure so calls in a professional who assesses your mum as mentally capable. So far I can't see that he has done anything wrong.

Your mum is also telling her solicitor that she doesn't trust you (as many of us have experienced financial paranoia and accusations of theft from our loved ones I understand that this may be as a result of her dementia) but the solicitor can't dismiss your mother's concerns out of hand. You say that solicitor has been calling your mother every day - is that what he actually said or did he say that he has spoken to your mother every day? Again, repeated phone calls from someone with dementia is not uncommon and it might have been your mother ringing him.

I think the fact that your mother' solicitor is sharing information with you means it's less likely that he is planning something underhand. If he was grooming your mother to give him power of attorney do you not think he would just have gone ahead and done it?

Is it possible that you, your brother and the solicitor arrange to sit down with your mother and discuss what she wants to do - the solicitor may need to speak to her on her own to ensure that your mum is not under any undue influence.
 

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