Holding hand whilst taking blood

[j00lzz]

My mother-in-law (Liz) is 85 and in the middle stages of Vascular Dementia. She lives in a local council-run care home. This week a nurse visited the home to take some blood samples from her, and in the process of taking the samples, Liz recoiled her hand as the needle entered resulting in large scratch and bruising to her hand. Naturally there was considerable pain, but the nurse persevered until she got the samples she needed.
My wife is very concerned about this treatment of her mother, so she spoke to the acting manager at the care home to suggest that in similar future situations one of the care home staff should hold her mum's hand whilst the blood sample is being taken.
The acting manager said that wouldn't be possible as they are not allowed to do this as it would be classified as restraint. So, it's OK that Liz can be injured through her natural instinct to remove her hand from the site of pain, but the care staff can't do anything physical to prevent such an injury because it's against her human rights to be restrained?
This is completely bonkers. We're not asking for restraint but just a firm hold of the hand to prevent her from injuring herself (or even injuring the nurse with a needle stick injury).
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? In the meantime, if we are informed that Liz will be having more bloods taken, one of the family will attend to hold her hand and re-assure her.

 

[BR_ANA]

I think if it was inside an hospital, your MIL must have her hand restrained to remove blood.

Idk UK practice, I would talk to GP about alternative exam. Or authorisation to restrain her for blood test. Or even going to hospital to do the test.

Maybe, if your MIL is on early stage, a explanation about exam could help.

 

[Beate]

I would have thought a DoLS covered such an apparent restraint (it really isn't one), if they're so worried about it?

 

[Red66]

I was told in hospital they can't restrain, I had to hold my Dad down while they took bloods and put cannulas in which he dragged out needless to say. They used to wait for me to visit for that purpose.

Hope that helps.

Nothing is ever simple,the system is trying to drive us all mad and make us ill in the process

Red.

 

[Kevinl]

I'd be interested to know what the "take some blood samples" were, if they included a blood gas sample then I'm not surprised if she reacted badly. My wife had a blood gas sample taken, normally subcutaneously on the back of the hand and fully knocked our she still reacted quite badly. Later when they did another one when I wasn't there she got a wrist injury that took her weeks to get over.
In A&E they didn't have an issue with me locking fingers with one hand and holding her elbow with the other to keep her still, in fact the consultant thanked me for my help. Blood samples from the hand are not the normal thing to do so is this a blood gas sample, if so it's apparently very painful.
The blood samples taken from the back of the hand aren't too bad, I've had a couple done and it's no worse than the elbow neither is having a canula in the back of the hand. If you're there at the time then it's what the doctor feels is for the best interests of the patient not the care home manager. Just based on my experience these "paper tigers" do back down when they're seen not to be acting in the best interests of the patient as defined by a doctor and the next of kin at the time.
K

 

[j00lzz]

I think if it was inside an hospital, your MIL must have her hand restrained to remove blood.

Idk UK practice, I would talk to GP about alternative exam. Or authorisation to restrain her for blood test. Or even going to hospital to do the test.

Maybe, if your MIL is on early stage, a explanation about exam could help.

Hi BR_ANA, thanks for your response. MIL is in middle stages of VD, and though has some reasonable long-term memory recall, her short-term memory and understanding of even where she is or who she is with makes it futile to explain such a procedure to her. She just reacts to the sharp needle, just as any of us would if we didnt know it was happening.

 

[j00lzz]

I would have thought a DoLS covered such an apparent restraint (it really isn't one), if they're so worried about it?

Hi Beate, thanks for your reply. I had to Google "DoLS" as I wasn't sure what it was but I now understand what you were getting at. And yes, of course you're right. Holding mum's hand in a comforting way isn't really restraint, even if done by a carer. It's just part of her overall well-being in my opinion and definitely in her best interests rather than sustaining a haematoma and any possible complications. It would even be safer for the nurse taking the sample!

 

[j00lzz]

I was told in hospital they can't restrain, I had to hold my Dad down while they took bloods and put cannulas in which he dragged out needless to say. They used to wait for me to visit for that purpose.

Hope that helps.

Nothing is ever simple,the system is trying to drive us all mad and make us ill in the process

Red.

Hi Red66. Thanks for your reply. Your experience with your dad's treatment sounds dreadful. In the meantime we've told the care home not to allow any blood samples to be taken unless one of the family can be there to hold MIL's hand.
And yes, the system is undoubtedly bonkers. Too many rules and regulations which are all designed to avoid litigation rather than to help the well-being of the patient. Grrrr.

 

[j00lzz]

I'd be interested to know what the "take some blood samples" were, if they included a blood gas sample then I'm not surprised if she reacted badly. My wife had a blood gas sample taken, normally subcutaneously on the back of the hand and fully knocked our she still reacted quite badly. Later when they did another one when I wasn't there she got a wrist injury that took her weeks to get over.
In A&E they didn't have an issue with me locking fingers with one hand and holding her elbow with the other to keep her still, in fact the consultant thanked me for my help. Blood samples from the hand are not the normal thing to do so is this a blood gas sample, if so it's apparently very painful.
The blood samples taken from the back of the hand aren't too bad, I've had a couple done and it's no worse than the elbow neither is having a canula in the back of the hand. If you're there at the time then it's what the doctor feels is for the best interests of the patient not the care home manager. Just based on my experience these "paper tigers" do back down when they're seen not to be acting in the best interests of the patient as defined by a doctor and the next of kin at the time.
K

Hi Kevini, thanks for your reply. The samples were not blood gas samples and we believe they were something to do with MIL's diabetes. (her medication was changed recently). The reason the 'restraint' issue cropped-up was because we asked the care home manager to ensure that a care home member of staff was present to hold MIL's hand should more blood samples be required. The care home was basically saying no to that. "We cant do that, it's classified as restraint". My next question to them will be about who classified it as restraint, as it seems to me that the "Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards" amendment to the Mental Capacity Act makes it pretty clear that restraint is allowed if oit's in the patient's best interest. It's not like we're asking for her to be tied down!

 

[j00lzz]

Hi Kassy, thanks for your reply. Yes, restraint! What a load of b*ll*cks!! That's the terminology used by the care home, not mine/ours! As you say common sense these days has disappeared in favour of a host of disconnected laws, rules and regulations which don't take into account the overall well-being of someone with dementia. Luckily, as per my reply to Kevini, at least the DoLS amendment to the MCA does seem to take into count the overall best interests of the patient.