Deputyship form filling nightmare!

[Laura1981]

Hi all, I'm hoping someone can help me. I care for my husbands grandad who is 91 and gap vascular dementia. He was recently accessed by the mental health team and they want him to go into a residential home.

My mother in law has applied to be his deputy and I filled in all the relevant forms for her. They have sent back a cop20a and cop14 form back for us to fill in. Now grandad will get extremely anxious if I start to explain this all to him and will then forget everything. I called up the court of protection today to get some advice of how to fill these forms in when he won't retain the information. The woman I spoke to doesn't know her **** from her elbow and ended up telling me to pretty much lie and say we've informed him and also to read him the cop14 quickly so that it doesn't register at all.

Now I don't know about you all but that all sounds a bit dodgy to me!

Can anyone help me with what and how I fill in these forms?

Thank you xx

 

[Leswi]

I just explained to mum that I was filling in forms to make sure her money was safe and looked after and that is what I put on the cop20 or cop14, can't remember which one it is that goes back to the Court. That was accepted by them. The person with dementia does not need to sign anything or even acknowledge they understand what is being said.

 

[Laura1981]

I just explained to mum that I was filling in forms to make sure her money was safe and looked after and that is what I put on the cop20 or cop14, can't remember which one it is that goes back to the Court. That was accepted by them. The person with dementia does not need to sign anything or even acknowledge they understand what is being said.

Thank you, I'll give that a go and see if it works. He's very protective over his stuff so hopefully he won't assume I'm stealing anything.

 

[Kevinl]

Hi Laura, welcome to TP
The CoP website (link below) says;

"Tell the person you’re applying to be a deputy for
You or your representative must visit the person and tell them:
who’s applying to be their deputy
that their ability to make decisions is being questioned
what having a deputy would mean for them
where to get advice if they want to discuss the application
During the visit give them:
a completed form COP14 - use the guidance notes to fill this in yourself
an acknowledgment form (COP5) for them to confirm they’ve understood this
any other documents related to your application".
If that's any help.
It seems a bit strange that the CoP don't seem to understand the meaning of "lacking capacity" and ask you to confirm they understand, if they understood you wouldn't be applying for deputyship in the first place.
K

https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy/apply-deputy

 

[Laura1981]

Oh trust me I have been thru their website a million times and it still makes no sense of how to tell someone about the deputyship understandable. Our grandad is 91, Italian, partially deaf and blind with dementia thrown in. I told that to the woman at cop and all she could reply was good luck with that! Like that's what I want to hear when all his financial affairs are up in the air!

They really don't make it easy for people when all you're trying to do is look after someone you love!

Thank you for looking up the info for me, I hope with the help of you all I may be able to piece it all together!

Laura

 

[Kevinl]

If his finances are complicated then you could ask your local; AZ society, AGEUK or citizens advise bureau or even us a solicitor.
I think if you had a couple of willing witness who'd say he did understand then the CoP would have a job proving otherwise, should they ever bother trying and why would they want to do that?
I wouldn't dwell too much on whether he understands or not it might be the letter if the law but I bet it's a letter that no one bothers about too much.
K

 

[canary]

I just explained to mum that I was filling in forms to make sure her money was safe and looked after and that is what I put on the cop20 or cop14, can't remember which one it is that goes back to the Court. That was accepted by them. The person with dementia does not need to sign anything or even acknowledge they understand what is being said.

Absolutely - thats what I did too.
edit to say that I was told that you have to explain in words they can understand which gives you a lot of wiggle room

 

[theunknown]

My understanding of deputyship is that it's applied for when the recipient isn't able to understand what they're signing up for with a PoA. Deputyship involves a drawn-out court process, costs a fair amount, and has ongoing fees. I'd have thought it would make life much easier for everyone involved if PoA was able to be applied. However, if you need to go through the Court of Protection there's no way you can just make things up. Deputyship is supervised (and you have to pay for this on an annual basis). When you apply you have to notify anyone who could contest the application. You will be expected to submit a financial record of all the outgoings you've made as a deputy. You also pay an annual insurance fee.

 

[theunknown]

In relation to the acknowledgement of what the person involved understands; as far as I'm aware relevant people need to be told what the situation is. I don't know where deception comes into it.

 

[Leswi]

In response to comments from unknown, having done both POA and deputy forms for different people I do agree POA is simpler. However this has to be done when the person is considered to have mental capacity to choose who they want to take responsibility for their finances/health. When it comes to deputy a health professional will have given their opinion in writing that mental capacity has gone. It does not need to be a long process and does not necessarily need actual appearances in Court. So far I have had phone calls only. I do keep records of what is spent to submit an annual report but would expect the same with POA. Exemption from fees and annual costs can be given if person with dementia has low income or receives certain benefits.

 

[arielsmelody]

I looked at the COP20a and COP14 forms, and it doesn't say anywhere that the person notified has to retain the information, it's just about trying to tell them.

In the COP20a it says:

"Describe the steps you took to explain the matter or matters to the person to whom the application relates and the extent to which they understood or appeared to understand the information given. Please also describe what, if anything the person to whom the application relates said or did in response to that notification."

From my reading of that, it's quite open to you to try to adjust what you say and the manner in which you say it to suit the situation and the person you are talking to.

 

[Sterling]

I have just successfully completed the Deputyship process. I used a solicitor because my mum lacks capacity for POA and the hospital consultant recommended this. It cost £850 plus vat for the solicitor who completed all the forms, £500 for an annual insurance, and I believe £400 to apply for the Deputyship at the Court of Protection.

I started the process at the beginning of January and it all came through in record time by the end of Feb. I will have keep all receipts to present within yearly accounts to show how I have looked after her interests...

I had to present mum with forms in hospital 1, to tell her that I had applied for the Deputyship and then 2, that it had been accepted. Anybody over 18 years old included in her will also had to be notified.