DWP threatens unpaid carers with prosecution over minor breaches of benefits rules ...

[Phil2020]

Many of us are unpaid carers and many are in receipt of Carers Allowance. I was not aware of the extent to which the Department of Work and Pensions will go to recover over payments in Carers Allowance even where such over payments have been received by virtue of honest mistakes or simply misunderstanding the rules. Unpaid, informal carers provide 'England and Wales' country with care that has been valued in the region of £162 billion!!!

I think the Alzheimers Society (and all similar others) should complain loudly and angrily to the government about this outrageous treatment of a body of people who do so much for people who are so frequently failed by the state and demand a change to the relevant rules and laws.

full account at :

DWP threatens unpaid carers over minor breaches of benefits rules

The difference between the two cases has raised eyebrows and the DWP has faced accusations of focusing on pursuing the wrong people.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Rayreadynow]

Divide and rule. This is more likely to be something that Citizens Advice would campaign for rather than the Alz Society. Michelle Mone comes to mind.

 

[SAP]

If every unpaid carer downed tools in protest the country would grind to a halt.

 

[Phil2020]

Divide and rule. This is more likely to be something that Citizens Advice would campaign for rather than the Alz Society. Michelle Mone comes to mind.

Not sure I follow. Why?

 

[Jessbow]

honest mistakes or simply misunderstanding the rules.
How on earth would you differentiate between an honest mistake and someone pulling a fast one- very difficult.
Most people can understand the rules.
Lady on the radio yesterday with sounding off that she had to repay what she's over claimed. It had taken her 10 years...to pay back 10k that she wasnt entitled to. She worked full time as well as claiming so they wanted it back. If you owe 10k , and choose to pay it back over 10 years, of course it going to take...10 years.
Having over claimed 10K sshe'd been doing do for a while.

 

[Rayreadynow]

Not sure I follow. Why?

Its more to do with the benefits system rules and Citizens Advice will very often take on a campaign if it gets enough feed back about how those rules affect people. Carers Allowance is an amount similar to Job Seekers Allowance / Universal credit and apparently only if you care for someone at least 35 Hrs per week. Basically if you also work and exceed a certain income level, you stop getting Carers Allowance.

Just think about those parents on joint incomes of £60,000 who get child care benefit and you can see where priorities lie.

 

[Rayreadynow]

honest mistakes or simply misunderstanding the rules.
How on earth would you differentiate between an honest mistake and someone pulling a fast one- very difficult.
Most people can understand the rules.
Lady on the radio yesterday with sounding off that she had to repay what she's over claimed. It had taken her 10 years...to pay back 10k that she wasnt entitled to. She worked full time as well as claiming so they wanted it back. If you owe 10k , and choose to pay it back over 10 years, of course it going to take...10 years.
Having over claimed 10K sshe'd been doing do for a while.

Why aren't HMRC so efficient ?

DWP staff costs £3.8 Billion!

 

[Phil2020]

honest mistakes or simply misunderstanding the rules.
How on earth would you differentiate between an honest mistake and someone pulling a fast one- very difficult.
Most people can understand the rules.
Lady on the radio yesterday with sounding off that she had to repay what she's over claimed. It had taken her 10 years...to pay back 10k that she wasnt entitled to. She worked full time as well as claiming so they wanted it back. If you owe 10k , and choose to pay it back over 10 years, of course it going to take...10 years.
Having over claimed 10K sshe'd been doing do for a while.

In a previous incarnation I was a 'regulator' (civil service, not DWP ) involved in looking at individuals financial conduct and prosecuting where appropriate. Following an investigation it's a pretty straightforward judgement (with due consideration of 'public interest' and materiality [i.e. how much has someone tried to get away with] to differentiate between honest mistakes, misunderstanding rules, and criminality. But in the example given in the piece, it cannot be right that if you have gone over the limits by, say, £1.00, all of the allowance received must be repaid rather than the £1.00. That is simply inequitable.

 

[Phil2020]

Its more to do with the benefits system rules and Citizens Advice will very often take on a campaign if it gets enough feed back about how those rules affect people. Carers Allowance is an amount similar to Job Seekers Allowance / Universal credit and apparently only if you care for someone at least 35 Hrs per week. Basically if you also work and exceed a certain income level, you stop getting Carers Allowance.

Just think about those parents on joint incomes of £60,000 who get child care benefit and you can see where priorities lie.

Ah I see. yes I get what you're saying. But wouldn't it raising the profile of Alzheimers Soc if it were involved in complaining about the treatment of carers to politicians. Alzheimers Soc has some clout so let's see it used to make an impact ....

 

[jennifer1967]

wouldnt it be the unpaid carer organisations that would be justified in looking into it at least. the rules are clear in that if you are not entitled to it, then shouldnt claim it. you can find out from cab which is another that could raise, what you are entitled to. this benefit system is so complicated that its a wonder more money hasnt been given. the benefits agency should check more thoroughly as well because its easier to not pay than trying to claw back the over payment afterwards

 

[Louise7]

For info, there are quite a few organisations/individuals looking into this issue, including Carers UK, who represent all types of carers. Other organisations such as the Centre for Social Justice, plus politicians, are also involved:

Unpaid carers shocked at having to repay thousands

Two ex-ministers say the government should pause demands for large sums of money from benefits overpayments.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[northumbrian_k]

There are sufficient documented cases to suggest that the rules are not that simple and mistakes made by an applicant can lead to substantial financial and personal harm. Here's one that has been acknowledged but with no reparation and significant additional costs to public finances:

Carer convicted over benefit error worth 30p a week fights to clear his name

George Henderson had to sell his home to repay nearly £20,000, years after ticking wrong box on carer’s allowance form

www.theguardian.com

 

[Neveradullday!]

I've never claimed carer's allowance, so probably don't know what I'm talking about - but it seems to me allowing people to earn up to £120 a week without losing it (CA) is a pretty good deal, as they must be part time carers anyway.

Taxpayers money has to be protected from fraudsters of course, but asking claimants who've made an honest mistake to pay back thousands is very harsh. Maybe asking them to return 6 months worth would be fair. Perhaps if it's that complicated, writing off the debt completely would be fairest. If they're an obvious carer I'd do that anyway - no questions asked.
I'm sure people looking into this will sort it out.

 

[SAP]

I think that the issue here is down to the DWP. If they are being sent information about someone’s earnings and then don’t inform them that they are over the limit for carers allowance, pittance that it is, then it’s the system at fault not the honest “ mixups “ I know there are people who play the system, I’ve seen it happen through work, but as we all know, when you start caring for someone you are thrown into a world of paperwork and financial issues that you have neither time for or understanding of. This is not just about caring for adults in later life , this is parents caring for children with little or no support, lifelong carers beaten down by the system. To hit the genuine mistake makers with the same punch as the dishonest benefit scammers is not fair.

 

[Dave63]

It's a shame the same vigour isn't implemented for recouping tax payers money from large corporations who abuse tax loop holes, or receive billions for govt contracts that don't provide value for money, or politicians who get second houses paid for, or use tax payers money to pay their legal fees after behaving like complete wombles. The list is endless.

But hey ho, better to go for the easy targets rather than the right ones.

 

[Herbie70]

Unpaid carers are an easy target.

 

[Rayreadynow]

Some governments love easy targets.

 

[jennifer1967]

motorists are another one

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

It's a shame the same vigour isn't implemented for recouping tax payers money from large corporations who abuse tax loop holes, or receive billions for govt contracts that don't provide value for money, or politicians who get second houses paid for, or use tax payers money to pay their legal fees after behaving like complete wombles. The list is endless.

But hey ho, better to go for the easy targets rather than the right ones.

Exactly this.

 

[Rosettastone57]

I found it extraordinary that I was able to claim carer's allowance while drawing a full company pension, which was over £120 a week. I wasn't in any sort of work. This didn't class as earnings apparently.