No clue how to manage this

[Felinefan66]

Hi there,

I've been trying to deal with my father (81), lives alone, for the 18 months as and when able, making notes of memory issues, change in behavioural pattern etc and he could have dementia. Just a few examples:

1. Loss of day/time - although he has a newspaper daily, he never knows what day it is; thinks he's seen friends or done something just last week when it could have in reality been months, or even years ago (e.g. he has not cultivated his garden for the last 3 seasons due to weather, his disinclination to do it or any other reason, but he doesn't accept this and says he did the garden last year).

2. Forgets appointments, when to use vouchers for his daily newspaper despite them being in sight each day (last week he forgot to use them so paid an extra £21 when he's already paid for his newspaper by monthly direct debit.. this is not the first time..).; forgets places or directions.

3. No longer cooks a daily meat and 3 veg dinner, though he insists he does but the mouldy veg and way out of date produce in his fridge tell me otherwise, always says, when asked "what did you have for dinner?", says "I can't remember...". Has plenty of chocolate and sweets though!

4. Loss of interest in usual hobbies e.g current affairs, politics.. even reading, he now has books he's not read - very unusual, but I think because he finds it difficult to focus. Finds it hard to play certain card games he's played for years.

5. Gets confused with bills etc, falls behind with payments. Before, he would reconcile his bank statements to the last penny - he insists he still does this but I have seen that this is not the case anymore. Normally an organised person, he now has paperwork all over the place. I try to help him with this but he tells me I'm interfering as he's 'perfectly capable' of doing it.

d. In a week we spent with him he did not shower once. And in fact it has been two years since his shower has stopped working - no cold water is coming out. Yet despite showing him what's happening, and him trying himself, he still doesn't accept the shower no longer operates correctly. If he has the boiler on for hot water for 20 minutes, the water is boiling and needs cold water to regulate the temperature. There's no way he would be able to shower without this cold water. He tested the shower when the boiler had not been on so of course the water coming out of the shower was cold - and this is why he insists the shower IS working correctly. He seems to have lost his sense of logic. Wears the same clothes for days, could even be weeks..

7. He has doors that won't lock externally, window handles broken off, a cooker broken yet he won't get these fixed. This is not normal for my father.

8. Constant repetition of questions even though he may have asked the question just 5 minutes before. Complete loss of conversations the day before, denying that they even took place.

And there's more.

We have tried to explain some instances to my father however he angrily refutes any suggestion there's anything wrong with his memory and the conversation is quickly closed and this is why he will not accept any help.

Going to the doctors is futile - he will not entertain even the mention of it. He hasn't been to the doctors for years. Thankfully, physically he's in good shape and is not on any medication. He thinks they are all quacks and out for money. So any suggestion to try to get him to go is impossible!! A couple of years ago I contacted his surgery but they said they can't do anything - it has to be his decision to go. I'm hesitant to write to his GP as I'm very sensitive to going behind my father's back and 'opening up a can of worms' - I would feel like I'm certifying him. My father is a very strong willed, independent man but I also know he's vulnerable and possibly even scared. Someone did say to me in his case, I might just have to wait for a crisis to happen before he gets help.

PoA - I think we've missed the boat as it does say something like, 'you need to know what you're signing, and if asked by someone...'. I think my father could lucidly sign it one day but the next might ask, 'what's this for.. I never agreed to sign that!' so I've sort of discounted this as being possible now.

Not sure if I'm looking for answers here, perhaps some general support.. it's very frustrating with someone who is so bloody stubborn (he always has been but now even more!!). I want to help him but he's not letting me because he doesn't 'need it'.

Sorry for long post.

 

[Gosling]

Firstly, hello @Felinefan66 and welcome to this friendly and supportive forum. I am glad you have found us.

I have read your first post, and thank you for being so comprehensive in it. Obviously I am sorry to read of your Father's health issues and the behaviours he is currently displaying. It must all be very worrying for you.

Sadly, All that you describe certainly fits into the dementia criteria. All the points you have noted, as well as his refusal to accept that anything is wrong. Very very common,

What to do about it , given the circumstances you describe is certainly challenging. I would write to your Father's GP detailing exactly all the points you have noted above, and say how worried you are about him. As you say, he would be described as a vulnerable person. I know you say about not wanting to go behind your Father's back, but there comes a time when , which has been said on this forum many times before - it's now more important what the person needs, rather than wants. If not, I very much fear you will be waiting for a crisis to happen, and that could be anything - and I don't want you to wish you had done something sooner. Hope that makes some sense.

As for LPOA, yes the person needs to have sufficient cognisance to know what it is and what they are signing. So you need to act swiftly I would suggest if you think this a possibility.

I know how darned frustrating it can be having a parent like it - stubborn . It's not easy at all.
I hope the above helps, and I'm sure others will be along shortly with their suggestions.
In the meantime, please remember you will always find understanding here, and do use the forum to let off a bit of steam when you need to. Take care.

 

[Felinefan66]

Thank you for your response. With reference to contacting his GP.. I hope you will understand.. I am so sensitive about this.. I would be so upset if my father found out and he perhaps accused me of betraying his trust or making a problem where there isn't one, forcing him to perhaps give up his independence etc. He has an alpha male attitude insisting he always do everything himself but sometimes he 'appears' so 'small' and this makes me very sad. I wouldn't want to do anything to hurt my father. He does not do doctors or dentists unless absolutely vital i.e. he hasn't been for years. If his GP invited him to the surgery for any reason I know that he would simply ignore the request.

If I can explain further with regard to my sensitivities.. I have described his symptoms.. I am concerned that if I did mention them to his GP, perhaps that it would be opening that can of worms... or perhaps the symptoms are just 'age related'? I don't want to bring something upon my father that has no basis.. not sure if you understand what I mean? He does not want to lose his independence.. he does not want to live with me.. not just yet.. I want to do what is best for him and possibly, therefore, just keeping a close eye on him is all I can do for now?

Ref the PoA - I have discussed this with him but when he asks what it's for it's always 'I'm perfectly ok.. it's not needed'. I can broach it again and see what he says. I'm presently trying to get him to sort out a will.. but that's a challenge too - he doesn't want me organising it.. but he won't do it either because I know he'll forget!! It's always.. 'I'm can do that.. I don't need your help!' but he never remembers anyway. It can be exasperating.

 

[canary]

I have described his symptoms.. I am concerned that if I did mention them to his GP, perhaps that it would be opening that can of worms... or perhaps the symptoms are just 'age related'? I don't want to bring something upon my father that has no basis.

Hi @Felinefan66

You know theres a problem, dont you? Thats why you are here
Its not normal aging - it needs investigating

 

[sdmhred]

I think with the POA - he doesn’t need to remember the next day what he has done ….but understands what he is signing in the moment and be consistent in his wishes. If they change that maybe indicates he isn’t able to make the consistent decision.

I would mention it several times ……if he says the same thing each time ….even if u have to explain it again….then u may be ok.

Capacity isn’t a memory test from day to day - but an ability to understand, weigh and communicate your wishes.

If there is an option to doing it then do - deputyship when he has lost capacity is so much more difficult, time consuming and expensive.

 

[Banjomansmate]

I convinced The Banjoman to do LPAs by pointing out that if anything happened to him and he ended up in hospital then nobody could say what he wanted to happen, or with nobody able to pay any bills etc. the Council could apply for Deputyship (which is expensive) and take over and that would come out of his money. I over egged it a bit but the thought of lawyers or the Govt. getting his money made a big difference to his attitude!

 

[Monday’s child]

It is not easy but I really think what needs to happen here is you become 'the parent', the roles need to change so you can do what is best for your father and as is often said here, you need to do what is needed and not what your father wants ; As canary said you know there is a problem and you want to do the best by him. Speak to the Gp if you can, you can tell them your concerns and also not to mention you and they can decide if it is just to do with his age or whether it needs further investigation.

 

[Felinefan66]

I convinced The Banjoman to do LPAs by pointing out that if anything happened to him and he ended up in hospital then nobody could say what he wanted to happen, or with nobody able to pay any bills etc. the Council could apply for Deputyship (which is expensive) and take over and that would come out of his money. I over egged it a bit but the thought of lawyers or the Govt. getting his money made a big difference to his attitude!

I have advised him that several times but I just get an annoyed 'Yeh, yeh, yeh... I know.. " response. I'll try again.

 

[Chizz]

I have advised him that several times but I just get an annoyed 'Yeh, yeh, yeh... I know.. " response. I'll try again.

Hi @Felinefan66
Having read the posts, it seems clear to me that all you describe is more than age related memory loss/problems, but that dementia has already started. As has been said, it is very common for denial that anything is wrong.
However, from what you have said, you know there is something wrong - in fact, a lot of somethings.

Some years ago, one of the aunts of my OH started just as you have described for your dad.
No matter how close an eye you think you can keep on someone, it's not always enough unless you are there (or someone is) all the time. In the aunt's case it only took a moment that while she was wiping down the gas hob, she didn't notice that her elbow had knocked one of the gas taps on. We weren't there, but arrived to find the whole apartment quite suffocating to enter. I went to gas hob whilst my wife opened all the windows. Whilst we were there, auntie said she'd make us a cup of tea. She was gone - in her little kitchen - for rather a long time, so my wife went to see if all was OK. Well the kettle was boiling away, the cups were laid out, but from having filled the kettle, auntie had left the water tap on and the sink had overflowed, and auntie was engaged in trying to find a mop, but she couldn't remember where it was kept.

I'm not saying your dad has reached that level, but it only takes a small moment, or accident, to lead to big troubles. Like a fall, or other mishap - that might happen during the day or worse, at night.

In trying to sort things out, you are not going behind your dad's back, you are trying to save his back!
There comes a time when a person in that condition cannot safely continue to live alone or independently, whatever they want, as they are not judging things properly - and as has already been said, it's what is needed that takes precedence over what's wanted.

On the basis that your dad may be a danger to himself - and you should tell the GP that in those words - you will have to get the GP to say, in a letter, that your father must attend the surgery for a well man check up, at which the GP can make a better judgment of the position. Ask the GP to let you know when appointment will be,. Then you need to take dad to the GP for that appointment. Whatever your dad thinks or says, by doing this, you are caring for him and trying to prevent thing getting out of hand.

Those are my humble views from a distance, but having been through this, with auntie, but now 6 years into full time caring for my wife.

Best wishes, good luck, and a hug!

 

[Lawson58]

The only way I could get my husband to complete POAs was for me to do mine at the same time as a mirror image of his. We included my son and daughter so that when and if he became unable to fulfil his duties, then it didn’t matter.

It was perhaps a little easier for me as he was recovering from a cardiac arrest and though in the earlier stages of dementia, that bit didn’t enter into the necessity for having a POA.

 

[Rosettastone57]

I have advised him that several times but I just get an annoyed 'Yeh, yeh, yeh... I know.. " response. I'll try again.

The standard response is always going to be no whatever you ask from a person with dementia. You'll have to develop a thick skin to deal with this and as another poster has already said, slowly change the role to your being a parent and take charge. With my mother in law, we knew we would have aways have difficulties getting a LPA. She didn't want to be seen as different to anyone else so I asked a neighbour who she was friendly with to help. Over the course of several weeks, she spoke to my MIL about it dropping the subject into conversations and told her that this was a normal thing to do as she was taking out LPA herself and everyone did this at a certain age. Eventually my MIL was sufficiently convinced and signed the forms.

As others have said, you need to set the ball rolling with the GP, whether your father likes it or not.

 

[Felinefan66]

Good morning and thank you for the responses and words of support/advice.

I know absolutely without doubt that any letter from his GP asking him to attend the surgery for something non-essential (in my father's eyes), he will completely ignore and throw in the bin. As for taking him to the appointment.. that would be impossible.. he would adamantly refuse and become extremely angry. I can count on ONE hand the amount of times in his life time so far when he's been to the doctors.

Any assistance I provide such as, clear and simply written notes or similar date or other list reminders, are perfunctorily thrown out once my back is turned as he claims 'I don't need those to remind me!' I made a spreadsheet of some of his outgoings with details of provider, due dates, how much, who pays as a reminder because he's always asking me.. but again all I get is 'Yeh, yeh... I know all that!.' and it's put to one side.

Unfortunately I don't live near to him but do try to see him as often as possible, staying over a few days each time. Sadly it's just me.. my husband is a great support.. but no other siblings or close family who are able to see him.

Speaking to him yesterday again about getting his will organised .. even though I suggested it might be easier (helpful) for me to arrange an appointment for him to get his (free) will organised, as usual, he declined my assistance and said he would do it so I gave him the telephone number etc and the date for him to book himself a slot, met with huffing and tutting. Today, he's probably going to forget. And if I remind him I'll just get huffed and puffed at again. I can't help but just think.. oh well.. whatever.. I give up!

I know that unfortunately it seems that I'm being very negative and perhaps dismissive of people's advice but that's not the case.. I just know my father and the struggles I now have and will continue to have.

We've tried to sit down and talk about our observations and recalling instances but he folds his arms and exclaims "I just don't accept what you're telling me." End of subject.

Do I need to grit my teeth and get firmer with him? Can anyone understand when I say that I don't want to upset him.. i.e. make him feel that he's not being respected or that I'm treating him like a child just because he's elderly? I'm very conscious about not doing this.

Thanks all.

 

[Canna]

It's really hard - you remember him how he once was, but you also know that he's not that person any more. He sounds very like my mother. I still feel mortified that I was sneaking behind her back, speaking about her to the GP without her knowledge, using subterfuge and basically lying to her. But at the same time she was doing all sorts of risky and unsafe things that were completely outside her former character. There was no point having a discussion - it might have made me feel better, but it wouldn't have helped mum because she was no longer able to think reasonably.

It hurts you to feel that you are treating your parent like a child, but I came to realise that managing mum was very like managing a toddler - no point reasoning or debating. Tell them what's going to happen, don't give too much advance warning, give information in small chunks, give a choice of doing something now or later (but don't offer 'not doing it' as a choice) ...

It might be worth thinking about the people who your father will listen to, and then using them as your 'mouthpiece' (mum had a favourite paramedic, so I could tell her that Richard wanted her to do x or y).

Mum would never accept that there was anything wrong with her - everyone else had problems, and I think this is pretty typical with dementia. A lot of medical professionals / social workers do understand this, and will be tactful. Although even if they weren't, mum didn't usually remember, or sometimes even notice.

 

[Violet Jane]

If you don't want to 'rock the boat' then you will be waiting for some kind of crisis which brings your father into contact with the health service (fall or illness leading to a paramedic call out or hospital admission), the police (wandering, dangerous driving) or the fire brigade (a fire or explosion in his home). Supportive friends and neighbours may contact his GP, Social Services or the DVLA anyway if they become really concerned.

If your father has dementia then he will get progressively worse and it will become completely obvious that his cognitive changes are not just normal aging. Some cognitive problems are caused by things other than dementia and can be treated. If these things aren't investigated then he won't receive treatment for them.

 

[Rosettastone57]

I agree with @Violet Jane , you'll have to wait for a crisis scenario. If his cognitive issues are the result of dementia, then now is the best he'll ever be . Honestly, there's no point having a logical discussion with him, he's lost reasoning. If you wait for a person with dementia to agree with you or see your point of view, you will wait forever.

 

[Cardinal]

I also agree with @Violet Jane you’re probably are going to have to wait for a crisis. Even if you get him to the GP he will probably refuse any carers coming in to help him. But there may be some house maintenance issues you may be able to take care of. It would have to be done while you are visiting and you would have to arrange everything yourself. Blame everything on you. Don’t tell him what needs to be repaired and don’t expect him to get the repairs taken care of himself. In his mind he’s getting along fine. Find a way to explain how the repairs are for your benefit. You could tell him you don’t feel safe when you can’t lock the doors and that you’ve arranged for someone to come that day to fix the locks so you will feel safe. He maybe more willing to let things be fixed if he thinks it’s to protect you. I would not tell him ahead of time. I would tell him just before the repairman arrived. If it were me I would probably only have the locks fixed. Others on this site, who have more experience, may have more suggestions on whether the other repairs need to be done.

I took care of my mother, and now husband, and for the POA for my mom I asked her if she would let me take care of her bills. For her the bills had become overwhelming. I told her I needed POA in order to pay her bills. She willing went and signed the papers. Then I arranged for all her bills to be sent to my home.

 

[Sarasa]

Hi @Felinefan66, I think your father might be more confused than you think. I visited my mother twice a week and spoke to her on the phone at least once a day. I knew things weren't right, and that it was most likely she had dementia. It wasn't until I moved her into care after she became a danger to herself and others that I realised how confused she really was.
I know you don't want to go behind his back but I do think sending his GP a bullet pointed list would be helpful as would contacting social services for a needs assessment. It might also be worth giving your details to neighbours so they can contact you with their concerns and also suggest that they report any concerns to social services.
As for LPA, if you can get that sorted it will be easier. Deputyship is more of a faff, but doable if you have to wait until your father no longer has capacity. You can also take any expenses you incur out of his account when you have it. You say your father is getting confused about bills, so I would keep as much of an eye on things as you can in case he becomes in danger of being cut off. I'd also keep an eye out for people that might try and scam him.

 

[rosiedog1]

Hi there,

I've been trying to deal with my father (81), lives alone, for the 18 months as and when able, making notes of memory issues, change in behavioural pattern etc and he could have dementia. Just a few examples:

1. Loss of day/time - although he has a newspaper daily, he never knows what day it is; thinks he's seen friends or done something just last week when it could have in reality been months, or even years ago (e.g. he has not cultivated his garden for the last 3 seasons due to weather, his disinclination to do it or any other reason, but he doesn't accept this and says he did the garden last year).

2. Forgets appointments, when to use vouchers for his daily newspaper despite them being in sight each day (last week he forgot to use them so paid an extra £21 when he's already paid for his newspaper by monthly direct debit.. this is not the first time..).; forgets places or directions.

3. No longer cooks a daily meat and 3 veg dinner, though he insists he does but the mouldy veg and way out of date produce in his fridge tell me otherwise, always says, when asked "what did you have for dinner?", says "I can't remember...". Has plenty of chocolate and sweets though!

4. Loss of interest in usual hobbies e.g current affairs, politics.. even reading, he now has books he's not read - very unusual, but I think because he finds it difficult to focus. Finds it hard to play certain card games he's played for years.

5. Gets confused with bills etc, falls behind with payments. Before, he would reconcile his bank statements to the last penny - he insists he still does this but I have seen that this is not the case anymore. Normally an organised person, he now has paperwork all over the place. I try to help him with this but he tells me I'm interfering as he's 'perfectly capable' of doing it.

d. In a week we spent with him he did not shower once. And in fact it has been two years since his shower has stopped working - no cold water is coming out. Yet despite showing him what's happening, and him trying himself, he still doesn't accept the shower no longer operates correctly. If he has the boiler on for hot water for 20 minutes, the water is boiling and needs cold water to regulate the temperature. There's no way he would be able to shower without this cold water. He tested the shower when the boiler had not been on so of course the water coming out of the shower was cold - and this is why he insists the shower IS working correctly. He seems to have lost his sense of logic. Wears the same clothes for days, could even be weeks..

7. He has doors that won't lock externally, window handles broken off, a cooker broken yet he won't get these fixed. This is not normal for my father.

8. Constant repetition of questions even though he may have asked the question just 5 minutes before. Complete loss of conversations the day before, denying that they even took place.

And there's more.

We have tried to explain some instances to my father however he angrily refutes any suggestion there's anything wrong with his memory and the conversation is quickly closed and this is why he will not accept any help.

Going to the doctors is futile - he will not entertain even the mention of it. He hasn't been to the doctors for years. Thankfully, physically he's in good shape and is not on any medication. He thinks they are all quacks and out for money. So any suggestion to try to get him to go is impossible!! A couple of years ago I contacted his surgery but they said they can't do anything - it has to be his decision to go. I'm hesitant to write to his GP as I'm very sensitive to going behind my father's back and 'opening up a can of worms' - I would feel like I'm certifying him. My father is a very strong willed, independent man but I also know he's vulnerable and possibly even scared. Someone did say to me in his case, I might just have to wait for a crisis to happen before he gets help.

PoA - I think we've missed the boat as it does say something like, 'you need to know what you're signing, and if asked by someone...'. I think my father could lucidly sign it one day but the next might ask, 'what's this for.. I never agreed to sign that!' so I've sort of discounted this as being possible now.

Not sure if I'm looking for answers here, perhaps some general support.. it's very frustrating with someone who is so bloody stubborn (he always has been but now even more!!). I want to help him but he's not letting me because he doesn't 'need it'.

Sorry for long post.

This post could be written by me about my mum. I am now a year on from this. I filled out a form at the doctors saying that they would share information about her with me and my brother. I explained to her it was in her interest just in case she had a stroke or something and couldn't answer for herself and as I always accompanied her to things like her flu jab. When I got worried about her I rang and spoke to a doctor and we cooked up a plan for her to go to a elderly persons annual health check that coincided with flu and covid jabs. I went with her and whilst in there I said I was really worried about her but mainly her memory, and it all went from there. After a long wait we saw the older people's community mental health team, who after tests have confirmed that she has alzheimer's. She went downhill really fast, but all the things you have written we have been there.
She is in a care home now, but going to visit her 3 times a week,for more and more time, and how she was acting, I thought this would answer my dreams. But no, I've now got an angry rude mother who is accusing me of stealing amongst other things.
My mother is a stubborn, control freak and this illness brings out the absolute best in them!!! Please please look after yourself, whilst sorting this all out, they are very good at emotional blackmail, and are very crafty. I am taking a break from visiting her as I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I'm going to see my doctor on Monday. My mum although her illness is far worse now she still knows how to press my buttons and makes me feel guilty if I dont drop everything and visit when she has her latest whim. You have to be crafty and get his doctor on side they are used to dealing with all this. Good luck and keep posting, the lovely people on here have stopped me losing it completely with their wise words and support.

 

[Chizz]

This post could be written by me about my mum. I am now a year on from this. I filled out a form at the doctors saying that they would share information about her with me and my brother. I explained to her it was in her interest just in case she had a stroke or something and couldn't answer for herself and as I always accompanied her to things like her flu jab. When I got worried about her I rang and spoke to a doctor and we cooked up a plan for her to go to a elderly persons annual health check that coincided with flu and covid jabs. I went with her and whilst in there I said I was really worried about her but mainly her memory, and it all went from there. After a long wait we saw the older people's community mental health team, who after tests have confirmed that she has alzheimer's. She went downhill really fast, but all the things you have written we have been there.
She is in a care home now, but going to visit her 3 times a week,for more and more time, and how she was acting, I thought this would answer my dreams. But no, I've now got an angry rude mother who is accusing me of stealing amongst other things.
My mother is a stubborn, control freak and this illness brings out the absolute best in them!!! Please please look after yourself, whilst sorting this all out, they are very good at emotional blackmail, and are very crafty. I am taking a break from visiting her as I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I'm going to see my doctor on Monday. My mum although her illness is far worse now she still knows how to press my buttons and makes me feel guilty if I dont drop everything and visit when she has her latest whim. You have to be crafty and get his doctor on side they are used to dealing with all this. Good luck and keep posting, the lovely people on here have stopped me losing it completely with their wise words and support.

Wishing you strength @rosiedog1 Yes take a break. Relax in a warm bath. Breathe. Regain some inner peace by whatever means are best for you. Then you'll be more armed to face the realities of caring again.
Best wishes and a hug.

 

[Felinefan66]

so I would keep as much of an eye on things as you can in case he becomes in danger of being cut off. I'd also keep an eye out for people that might try and scam him.

Yes, last year I had his phone number changed due to some telephone scammers..