Q&A: Paying for Residential care - Tues 24 July, 3-4 pm

[Saun_A]

Do you have questions about funding residential care? Are you worried that you may have to sell your home to pay for care or that you may have to top up care home fees?

Tina, our very own Knowledge Officer will be on hand to answer your questions in this thread on Tuesday 24 July between 3-4 pm.

You can either post questions here or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on Tuesday 24th of July.

 

[Saun_A]

Hello everyone,

We had a really interesting question that has come to us via email about whether a spouse can retain half of a husband's pension who is in a nursing home.

Tina will answer this and other questions next week. Please keep the questions coming. You can post on this thread or email us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk

Thanks.

 

[Clemie]

I am so pleased as last month (after me asking for over 2 & half years) we have been told Mum is entitled to FNC.
Finally! What a relief! A good night's sleep! Less money to find!
Until the manager of the home studied the report and decided her needs meant a move to Nursing floor.
So fee increase is over double the FNC amount!
I have asked if this is considered an 'end of life' move & have been told definitely not.
(although they seem to talk more to me about DNR & Funeral directors than care plans!)

Not even sure if I have the energy to argue, there seems no point

 

[Double_Trouble]

very timely
had a meeting at Hospital only yesterday about my Dad;
they are wanting to prepare him for discharge (been in hospital for 7 months) - he's on a section 3
We've had one DST several months ago. A total admin cockup, which resulted us not being able to comment on the day of the DST, and had to request a further meeting to state our case. Which we were told would be recorded but not used as part of the DST.
So now the Dr states we need a new DST (this was yesterday), yet today the ward sister says no we don't !
****....elbow...etc
question;
as he has shown no signs of improvement over the past 7 months, despite continual meds changes, he is in serious decline, both mentally and physically.

We have been told today that he will get 'some' funding, but as he has savings he will have to top it up !!!
Dr stated he will be on a 117 when he leaves hospital.
Dont really know what to do !

 

[Watchbattery]

My husband is still at home with me, and long may he be. However I am realistic and sooner or later he will need more care than I can give probably, especially if he becomes violent. People seem to love telling me that they often become violent. I have 2 questions:-

1. We each have an ISA and I would plan to use his to pay for care. When that runs out, would they then be able to take mine as well? I am hoping I won't be destitute in the end.

2. Our house is not owned jointly by us but we are 'Tenants in Common' a legal term to mean that we each own 50% as separate individuals. We did that when we first registered the house about forty years ago. Will they take half the house if the money runs out?

 

[Theresalwaystomorrow]

Hi watch battery
I’m looking forward to this question time it will be very helpful for many but I can answer your 2 questions
ISA’s are what they say ‘ independent savings accounts so if in your name they can’t touch it
The house- while your living in it again it cannot be counted.

 

[JSR]

My mum has been a self funder since moving into care in Feb 2016. This Feb we had to change care homes as her current residential were not able to meet her increased needs. The new care home is in a different county and I have been trying to obtain a deferred loan against her house (that we rent out), as her savings are now down to about £5k. The new LA are saying that as her savings dropped below £23k before February when she moved, the old LA are responsible and we are in a never ending circle with no one accepting responsibility. I realise that mum will still have to self fund, that's not a problem but how can I get someone to take responsibility and approve the deferred loan before her money runs out? This may be such a specific question that you may not be able to answer, but any help would be appreciated.

 

[Kikki21]

If the PWD owns a house outright but has savings which just take them over the £23k but you will need some of the money to refurbish/renovate the house which will bring down the savings under £23k, can you still defer payment on the house? Is it up to the individual council?
We don’t want to sell the house as it is as it will increase in value with some refurbishment work & then let out on short term lets - Airbnb rather than selling as it is.
Thank you

 

[Polo63]

My mum lives in a house that I own jointly with her. I do not live there. I have two questions.
If mum does evenually live in nursing home would the house need to be sold to fund care.
Would the local authority class her funds at 50% of the house value or 100%.
Hope I have explained myself clearly.
Mum has limited savings.

 

[Kevinl]

My mum lives in a house that I own jointly with her. I do not live there. I have two questions.
If mum does evenually live in nursing home would the house need to be sold to fund care.
Would the local authority class her funds at 50% of the house value or 100%.
Hope I have explained myself clearly.
Mum has limited savings.

They can't make you sell your share of the house if you don't want to, but they could in a financial assessment treat her as having assets equivalent to her share of the house.
In the past people have successfully argued that a half share in a house has no value and the LA have disregarded it as they had to establish the market value and the market value of half a house is effectively zero. But that was then under the CRAG rules, now it's covered by the 2014 Care Act that seems to be changing.
It's a bit complicated whether they would or not, perhaps Tina can enlighten you tomorrow.
K

 

[Sammycat]

When we moved into this house we weren't married and I wasn't working, so everything, house deeds, mortgage etc went into partners name. We are now married and mortgage is paid off but house is still only in my husbands name. If he needs residential care can they force the sale of our house? Scottish law ( don't know if it makes a difference)

 

[Polo63]

They can't make you sell your share of the house if you don't want to, but they could in a financial assessment treat her as having assets equivalent to her share of the house.
In the past people have successfully argued that a half share in a house has no value and the LA have disregarded it as they had to establish the market value and the market value of half a house is effectively zero. But that was then under the CRAG rules, now it's covered by the 2014 Care Act that seems to be changing.
It's a bit complicated whether they would or not, perhaps Tina can enlighten you tomorrow.
K

Thank you so much in taking the time out to reply. Let's see what transpires tomorrow. God bless you.

 

[Saun_A]

Hello everyone,

We have received quite a few questions that have come in by email ahead of our Q&A this afternoon so bear with us. We will try and answer as many as possible in the one hour slot.

In the meanwhile. Please refrain from answering the questions. Tina will answer them this afternoon. This is a complicated area and Tina will do her best to respond to each individual question.

I will list the questions on this thread so all of us can benefit from the responses. Thanks.

Question 1: My husband is in a nursing home and I am self funding from a small inheritance his mother left him (60 thousand) and this will eventually run out so I will be funding it from some of his other savings. This will in time run out. He has a civil service pension and we have been living on this, both of us. I have savings which are in joint names and were for my pension. Would they take all of my husband’s pension or could I retain half as his wife?

 

[Saun_A]

Question 2:

My mums been in hospital and now rehab for 4 months. There trying to discharge her to a 24 hour care home EDM unit.

We’ve not had a meeting at the rehab with anyone sent us a list of vacant care homes with no top up fees but there miles away from her family.

She dosnt have and savings and under the thresh hold. We own the home she lives in she’s sign it over to us 11-12 years ago now via a solicitor. Should we request a financial assessment on her before she comes out of rehab as we cannot afford top up fees and don’t know who or how much they will pay for her care. She did have carers in before at home with financial help. At a loss of what to do next. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Saun_A]

Question 3:
My 89 year old father has Dementia and my 85 year old mother as Alzheimers. They basically have not much else wrong with them other than frailty through bad nutrition and self-neglect, and take no medicines at all. They both refuse to have any sort of help/assistance at home other than me (who lives 50 miles away) seeing them weekly and dealing with POA and medical issues, washing, etc., and my brother seeing them weekly bringing their food shopping. In between they go nowhere and see no-one - their choice.


However, it is fast approaching the time where Social Services will have to step in on a 'best interest's basis and insist on carers or a care home. My parents are quite wealthy and are well over the £23k threshold so will I expect have to pay for all of their care. However,I would like advice as to whether because of their dementia/alzheimers care needs, they are entitled to any NHS funding. They already receive AA.

 

[Saun_A]

Question 4:
i have been trying to get answers for 10 years or more from MPs and everybody of every part no luck so now im writing to you

our parents both had dementia and sadly had to go into care.

we picked a home for dad first which we believed was safe and good and we paid the rent every week

then out of the blue we had a letter from cqc saying they had pulled it up for not just simple things but things that could cause danger to life

we move dad straight away to another home as soon as we found out

but what we were so mad about and it is wrong is

if a home is pulled up and it hasn't been good or safe the home doesn't have to give any of the money paid to them

over the time it was unsafe this is wrong and it should b under the not got what paid for law ( sorry not sure of the title)

all it got was a telling to carry out things and carry on they would inspect again, when we went to see dad the home was carring out repairs with the residents still amongst the caose and disruption going this

of course we questioned this at the time and even tried to get dads money back through a solicitor

it was s o hard and paid for this but the solicitor told us best to drop it they have more money than us and could carry on but we couldn't and could lose everything

now this is wrong dont you think

if we go to a hotel we pick one and it turns out to be rubbish and dangerous we can complain to ABTA but homes don't have to do this and WHY?

this is so wrong and we see it in papers all the time

then we couldn't believe it but the home our mum was in

it happened again we couldn't believe it we had meetings with the owners ect but got no where and the things they got done for wasn't trivial example one

it was even they didn't check papers of employers and they weren't even nurses but they go the jobs

this is so wrong they were not cheap homes over one thousand a week and more but cheap or dear it shouldn't happen

it is heart breaking enough to go through this with a loved one let alone all this when putting trust into one to care for sick person

another piece is if a person goes into a care home and owns own home and another person lives there under 60yrs old apart from husband or wife but children

yes they are asked to leave to sell the home to pay care rent

it has gone from care and compassion to big business

no one knows what is in front of them and it is so frightening and should be stopped they are laughing right to the bank. i really could go on and on as to what has happened over the passed 10yrs to us all and think this all needs to b brought out into the open and stopped

as i said over the years i have written to MPs government a and all people i thought would b able to help and stop this but no it is still going on today and no one seems to b taking any notice

WHY? and another thing cameras should b instilled as no o ne knows what happens behind closed doors as we read in papers theft and even slapping of residents

anyway i best stop now as this letter will be to long

so i hope you will be able to put this forward but i cant think to who as i have written to every one but they might take more notice of your society

have written lastly to Caroline Dinagee the new minister but got nothing from her only a letter back from admin and tolls me all i had put into my letter but in a different way

so really we have lost a bit of faith

anyway lets hope you can put this forward and thank oyu

 

[Saun_A]

Question 5:
Hi Tina

Question for your question time session

Once a CHC checklist has been completed and found eligible for second stage DST assessment, am I correct in thinking that from here on which ever way it’s goes ie fully funding, fnc, or local authority, but either way a care plan must take place?

So the outcome at least should end with a care plan is that the correct procedure they should follow ?

Thank you

 

[Saun_A]

Question 6:
My mom is now in a residential care home and her house has been sold to fund it. All her bank accounts are joint with me and I hold both types of power of attorney. She still receives her state pension, a very small occupational pension and attendance allowance at the higher rate and this covers approx 50% of the total care home costs. As her placement at the home was originally done via social services, I’m paying the basic amount (£436 per week) to them and a top up amount (£78 per week) directly to the home. What I’d like to understand is whether I am personally liable for the top up amount. I’ve been told that I’m not, but also that I am by two different people. At the moment all of the care home costs, inc the top up, are being met by the house sale proceeds (which are in an account held jointly by my mom and myself). I’m not currently working and have no income, so I could not cover the top up from my personal funds anyway. Am I on dodgy ground legally here?

 

[Saun_A]

Question 7:
Please can you tell me why care homes when offering nursing have to adhere to the criteria ie nurses have to have the required qualifications also so many nurses on duty per resident per floor for a set period of time etc etc. And are inspected to ensure this happens by the CQC

Yet care homes can advertise themselves as dementia care providers but are not required to meet any criteria. Sending their staff on dementia care courses is considered best practice but they are no qualifications resulting from training and no recognised standard of dementia care is required for them to provide this service and therefore no inspection can assess the correct level of dementia care is being given.


I think the Alzheimer’s Society should take up this question to those responsible and if necessary get a focus group to work on getting recognised dementia care qualifications for all workers in this area, better care would obviously result from such a scheme. I realise this is may be not the platform for such a question but hope you will be able to pass this on to someone in your organisation who can help.

 

[Saun_A]

Question 8:
I wonder if you could clarify the situation for married couples,where one has to go in care.My wife,who has Alzheimer's/Dementia (I've never been given the absolute definition)and I both live in our own mortgage free apartment.We have no great savings,less than £10k.If she were to go into care,could a charge be placed on my/our property?.Also,at what stage can it be decided that she needs to go into care,or that I can no longer cope,what would happen if I said I'd had enough.