Moving my mother to Spain

[MichellePer]

My mother was sectioned in august and since moved into a home in November. Her behaviour has settled hugely and she is much more manageable and compliant generally and to personal care now. She is receiving all her treatment for free due to the section.

She is on various meds, one PRN and one controlled drug, morphine. She has had no major issues for around 2 months now.

I live in Spain and I hoping to take my parents back with me in March. I have a flat attached to my house which is for them and we’ll adapted for them. Full time 24hr care is very common and much more reasonable and proficient there. I currently have their visa in process (since before the section).

My mum is no longer on an order but I know her SW is against my mum moving out of the home. I suppose for him she’s settled and less work now. When I previously discussed moving my mum home he argued about covert meds. But can they really stop me? My parents are entitled to healthcare in Spain due to being registered at my house already. I have requested her list of meds from the home already.

I would prefer to do this in cooperation with the services here but I’m not willing to leave her here alone as it’s easier for them.

Does anyone have any advice/guidance.
Thanks

 

[Jessbow]

I think you would be very ill advised to move her to spain. Dementia is progressive ( as you are no doubt aware) settled at the moment is one thing, given the upheaval of moving her , never mind to another country, will be huge .

if her SW is against te idea chances are he/she will block it anyway if push come to shove

 

[canary]

I suspect that your mum is only settled and manageable now due (in addition to the drugs) to the environment that she is in and the way that she is being cared for by people who are trained in dealing with challenging behaviour.

I strongly suspect that once she is taken out of her settled routine and familiar environment the aggression will return.

As has been said, the SW can indeed block you from removing your mum. They have a legal imperative to make sure that anyone discharged from a care/nursing home is going to a safe environment and your mum is a high risk (having been previously sectioned). It may have to go to the Court of Protection for them to decide where she lives.

 

[northumbrian_k]

Hi @MichellePer and welcome to Dementia Support Forum our friendly and helpful community of people who have experience of many aspects of dementia.

I can't comment on whether a move to a different country would work for your parents (or you). To me, though, your first 2 paragraphs set out clearly why your mother is better where she is. A team of people has contributed to her apparently more settled state. Achieving that is wonderful and would make anyone think many times over before doing anything to change it.

 

[Kevinl]

Does she have any linguistic skill, as in can she speak Spanish, be very isolating when the background chatter, radio in the shops or wherever is suddenly not understandable to you. Bit like people who loose thier hearing, isolates you.
K

 

[Sarasa]

Hi @MichellePer , I totally under wanting to have your mum near you. I moved my mum to be near me as I was worried I couldn’t get there in time if there was an emergency. However that was just from one care home to another and both of them were in England.
I think the move ‘might’ work if you could find a similar care home in Spain. Does your mum speak Spanish as her first language, because if not she may well struggle, even if she speaks Spanish well now.

 

[canary]

I think the move ‘might’ work if you could find a similar care home in Spain.

@Sarasa - the OP is planning to move both parents into a flat attached to their house and employ 24 hr live-in care

I have a flat attached to my house which is for them and we’ll adapted for them. Full time 24hr care is very common and much more reasonable and proficient there.

I would be doubtful about that working even without the history of challenging behaviour, but having been previously sectioned I think it is probably a step too far.

 

[Bod]

What does Spanish 24 hr home care consist of?
Should mother need to be "Sectioned" again in Spain, what would the process be?
How do you propose, your mother travels?
Airlines may refuse passage due to her condition, driving and ferry, will be a very long journey.
How would she react to the journey?
Many practical questions that need to be addressed long before any decision is made.

Bod.

 

[MichellePer]

I think you would be very ill advised to move her to spain. Dementia is progressive ( as you are no doubt aware) settled at the moment is one thing, given the upheaval of moving her , never mind to another country, will be huge .

if her SW is against te idea chances are he/she will block it anyway if push come to shove

Yes I am aware it is progressive, however even the care staff feel my mum is in a better way than many others on the unit. I think even if we get another 6-12 months of her being at home that would be a huge positive for us. If needs be there are homes there.

I highly doubt my mum would know she is in another country.

 

[MichellePer]

What does Spanish 24 hr home care consist of?
Should mother need to be "Sectioned" again in Spain, what would the process be?
How do you propose, your mother travels?
Airlines may refuse passage due to her condition, driving and ferry, will be a very long journey.
How would she react to the journey?
Many practical questions that need to be addressed long before any decision is made.

Bod.

In Spain it is very typical for the elderly to have a PA/Carer at home and there are many of people willing to take on the role. Typically they work 5 days a week. We had a Carer for the 5 months I last had my parents here. She was great, managed my mum pre meds, she’s now a lot calmer and there are now PRN’s available if needed, before we had nothing.


I travelled with my parents back from Spain when my mum was at the height of her illness, completely unable to function and very oppositional. My husband and I returned my dad who was in a wheelchair after a stroke and her, the airlines said nothing at all.

 

[MichellePer]

Does she have any linguistic skill, as in can she speak Spanish, be very isolating when the background chatter, radio in the shops or wherever is suddenly not understandable to you. Bit like people who loose thier hearing, isolates you.
K

My mum lost her speech and most of her understanding first. I doubt another language would make any difference whatsoever.

 

[MichellePer]

Hi @MichellePer , I totally under wanting to have your mum near you. I moved my mum to be near me as I was worried I couldn’t get there in time if there was an emergency. However that was just from one care home to another and both of them were in England.
I think the move ‘might’ work if you could find a similar care home in Spain. Does your mum speak Spanish as her first language, because if not she may well struggle, even if she speaks Spanish well now.

My mum lost her speech a long time ago. Her understanding is very limited also.

My mum moved from hospital to another care home, it did slightly unsettle her for around a week, she is now very settled on her new medication and her anger and aggression seems to have gone. But the home she has been put in is very extreme and even the staff feel she is miss placed, it was a very quick unorganized dish charge to the first place that would take her!

 

[Violet Jane]

Will you be able to find a live-in carer who speaks fluent English? What would happen if home care doesn't work out.

I have experience of organising live-in care in the UK for an elderly friend. Putting it bluntly, live-in carers won't put up with difficult behaviours; they can find an easier placement. They are not easy to find as most people don't want to live in someone else's home. Many live-in carers only do temporary placements or work a schedule of, for example, two weeks on, two weeks off. They have working hours and breaks and can't be expected to get up more than twice a night. If the client won't go to bed at a reasonable hour / wanders around at night / gets up repeatedly then a waking night carer has to be brought in on top. In my friend's case live-in care only worked for just over a year and only because the primary carer put up with a lot. Eventually, we had to move to 24 hour care, which is calculated by the hour and cost about three times as much as an expensive care home.

 

[Grannie G]

It doesn`t sound so terrible on paper to me @MichellePer It sounds as if you have all bases covered and are confident any care your mother needs will be available.

You have also had her with you in Spain before.

You have three months before you plan to move her and it will be interesting to see the level of progression during that time.

If I was in your position I think I would want to do the same. If I`ve read it correctly, you are not planning residential care for your mother but care at home where you will be on call at all times.

 

[SMBeach]

I have no experience of having had someone sectioned or moving a parent to a foreign country but I can totally understand you wanting to do this and with your dad having had a stroke too I can see your mum and dad each not being able to rely on the other. I don’t think language will be an issue as you say speech and understanding is already limited and I’m guessing many Spanish may speak sims English in any case. Or maybe not. I dint know. I also think if things go downhill or become too expensive or difficult to manage that you may have the option of care homes in Spain too? Or maybe not? I think if ultimately you have the same options available to your mum/parents in the future shoukd things progress then I can’t see why or how a social worker here could block it. But I’m not familiar with the system at all. I’d have thought having family close by would be a good reason for moving your mum.