Looking for advise with someone refusing home help

[MariaO]

Hello everyone,
Thank you for accepting me to this forum.

I have power of attorney for a 90 year old elderly lady, she's not family to me, but sadly has no one in her family she could trust with the POA role hence asking me a few years ago.

She has severe memory loss and recently fractured her pelvis and was sent home from hospital with 6 weeks free care. This has now come to an end and she has to self fund as she's over the threshold for financial help. I put the recommended care of 3 times daily in place for her which she has cancelled saying she doesn't need it and its too expensive, I have persuaded her to have it just once a day although along with the carer we feel it isn't enough. We are awaiting a mental health assessment to look at capacity, the gp has escalated it but it still could be a while.

I care about her very much but she is a very difficult person (naturally difficult, putting aside her illness which is sadly how shes alienated her family over the years), my question is...

With power of attorney, how liable am I if she were to make a risky decision and cause danger to herself or even others (driving is a big concern, I have informed dvla, her gp and the local council safeguarding team but as yet nothing has been done, her son took her car and keys but ended up taking it back as she repeatedly phoned him through out the day demanding he return it), I guess i'm asking could I be held accountable if something awful happened to her or indeed someone else whether she is deemed as having capacity or if she still proves as difficult to help if confirmed as no capacity? I obviously want to do the best I can for her but my own family are concerned about how much will fall onto my shoulders should anything happen and if I would be in any way liable for not safeguarding her?

 

[amIinthewrong?]

You can talk to a solicitor about ending poa if that is what you want I don't think you can be held accountable if she get into accidents, poa is more about what decisions are made for her like the finance and health side like what type of care she needs, if she is refusing care or decisions made then I don't think you are responsible, I think that you would be better of talking to a professional/solicitor that does poas and possibly end poa, my mum wanted me to be poa for her but I don't think I like the idea of making decisions for an other human being, I have enough on doing that for myself sometimes the responsablity over others is overwhelming , it's okay to change your mind about being poa if you have concerns💐💐

 

[MariaO]

You can talk to a solicitor about ending poa if that is what you want I don't think you can be held accountable if she get into accidents, poa is more about what decisions are made for her like the finance and health side like what type of care she needs, if she is refusing care or decisions made then I don't think you are responsible, I think that you would be better of talking to a professional/solicitor that does poas and possibly end poa, my mum wanted me to be poa for her but I don't think I like the idea of making decisions for an other human being, I have enough on doing that for myself sometimes the responsablity over others is overwhelming , it's okay to change your mind about being poa if you have concerns💐💐

Thank you, I just want to do my best for her, but it is something that worries me.

 

[Banjomansmate]

Do you have LPA for just finance or for Health & welfare?
Either way you are not responsible for another person’s actions, there is no way you can “make” them do anything.

 

[MariaO]

Do you have LPA for just finance or for Health & welfare?
Either way you are not responsible for another person’s actions, there is no way you can “make” them do anything.

Thank you, I have LPA for both finance and heath and welfare

 

[Violet Jane]

My husband and I were in a very similar position with a 90 year friend. My husband had a POA for property and financial affairs but nobody had a POA for health and welfare. My husband was always concerned about not exceeding his remit as financial attorney and so we always involved social services with anything involving care. However, I did end up effectively as next of kin because there was no close family. I was fortunate in that the elderly care nurse at her surgery was very helpful and I was able to contact her directly with problems.

Fortunately, our friend accepted carers but driving was a huge issue as she wouldn't stop after the DVLA had ordered her to. My husband and I weren't comfortable about taking her keys without her permission. In the end, both her surgery and I contacted the local police who sent an officer round to speak to her. I don't know what he said but the next morning she agreed to hand over her keys.

What kind of POA do you have? What stage have you reached with the DVLA? If she's been ordered to stop driving then it's easier to do something about her driving. If she hasn't then it's more difficult.

I would contact SS about her refusal to have a care package. I don't think that it can be forced on her. Many family members have the same problem. I'm afraid that people don't want to pay for care and so you might need to be a bit evasive about this if care is definitely needed. That's why I would always involve SS. That way, the family can't complain later that you've been wasting her money on unnecessary care. I would keep a record of any meetings or conversations with SS, particularly if there are discussions about really expensive care e.g. live-in or residential care or longer and more frequent care visits at home.

Do keep posting for advice. I do understand how you can worry about the responsibility.

 

[Violet Jane]

My post crossed with yours, @MariaO.

 

[Spottydog]

This is a big responsibility so I can understand why you are worrying, especially about things like driving. Regarding the driving if she has a dementia diagnosis her insurance company should be informed too. Is she claiming Attendance Allowance? If not this could help her offset the care costs as it's not means tested. Also once she gets AA I believe she will get a council tax reduction too.

 

[MariaO]

My husband and I were in a very similar position with a 90 year friend. My husband had a POA for property and financial affairs but nobody had a POA for health and welfare. My husband was always concerned about not exceeding his remit as financial attorney and so we always involved social services with anything involving care. However, I did end up effectively as next of kin because there was no close family. I was fortunate in that the elderly care nurse at her surgery was very helpful and I was able to contact her directly with problems.

Fortunately, our friend accepted carers but driving was a huge issue as she wouldn't stop after the DVLA had ordered her to. My husband and I weren't comfortable about taking her keys without her permission. In the end, both her surgery and I contacted the local police who sent an officer round to speak to her. I don't know what he said but the next morning she agreed to hand over her keys.

What kind of POA do you have? What stage have you reached with the DVLA? If she's been ordered to stop driving then it's easier to do something about her driving. If she hasn't then it's more difficult.

I would contact SS about her refusal to have a care package. I don't think that it can be forced on her. Many family members have the same problem. I'm afraid that people don't want to pay for care and so you might need to be a bit evasive about this if care is definitely needed. That's why I would always involve SS. That way, the family can't complain later that you've been wasting her money on unnecessary care. I would keep a record of any meetings or conversations with SS, particularly if there are discussions about really expensive care e.g. live-in or residential care or longer and more frequent care visits at home.

Do keep posting for advice. I do understand how you can worry about the responsibility.

Thank you for your reply, you've kind of mirrored my thoughts, I have POA for health and finance and early stage with DVLA in terms of putting a report of concern into them.

 

[Violet Jane]

Yes, I should have mentioned that as well as informing the DVLA of a dementia diagnosis the car insurers must be informed.

If she's broken her pelvis can she get into the car?

 

[MariaO]

This is a big responsibility so I can understand why you are worrying, especially about things like driving. Regarding the driving if she has a dementia diagnosis her insurance company should be informed too. Is she claiming Attendance Allowance? If not this could help her offset the care costs as it's not means tested. Also once she gets AA I believe she will get a council tax reduction too.

Thank you for your reply, I have actually just applied for attendance allowance and appreciate the advise re council tax, I will look into that for her.

 

[MariaO]

Yes, I should have mentioned that as well as informing the DVLA of a dementia diagnosis the car insurers must be informed.

If she's broken her pelvis can she get into the car?

Thank you, yes i've advised the insurance company and they are awaiting the dvla decision. Physically she doing well and her pelvis fracture hasn't had too much of a mobility impact.

 

[Violet Jane]

The DVLA will send a form asking for information. I didn't discuss this with our friend but just filled it in (I can't remember if she had to sign it) and sent it off. It should arrive fairly quickly after they have been informed of the diagnosis so look out for it.

I believe that if you don't respond to the DVLA they cancel your licence but I'm not sure.

 

[MariaO]

The DVLA will send a form asking for information. I didn't discuss this with our friend but just filled it in (I can't remember if she had to sign it) and sent it off. It should arrive fairly quickly after they have been informed of the diagnosis so look out for it.

I believe that if you don't respond to the DVLA they cancel your licence but I'm not sure.

That's helpful, thank you.