Just looking for some advice regarding PWD having cash. I have sole POA and all their bills are paid by direct debit and the shopping is done online and delivered every week. They only use cash to pay the window cleaner, which is around £10 a month. They frequently lose their wallet and accuse people of stealing. For over a year now, they have been ok with having £10-20 in cash at any one time. Recently they went to the bank with another family member and drew out £100. The bank have advised me that the family member said "you want to draw out £100 don't you" and they confirmed they did. When the cash was handed over, the family member took it and said "I'll look after that for you". The next day the PWD had no money and was very confused about what had happened in the bank. Previously this family member had their PIN and access to their card and as a result the card was changed to a Chip & Signature card so the PWD would have to be present for any transactions. The PWD now wants another £100 cash but with no intended purchase in mind. I'm concerned that cash will "disappear" with nothing to show for it. A couple of years ago nearly £400 they had had gone whilst I was on holiday and PWD had no idea where it had gone and nothing to show if it had been spent on things. PWD has no insight into their finances. I don't want to stop them having cash but at the same time want to protect them from someone possibly taking advantage of them and their vulnerability. £100 isn't a lot of money, but if that was taken out regularly then it would soon mount up. Has anyone had experience of this and can give advice?
How much cash is it safe for PWD to have in their wallet when they lose it frequently?
- Thread starter Panda_universe
- Start date
Hi,
Would it be possible to open another account for the PWD, take their current bank card and replace it with the new account card and make sure that there is only ever a small sum in this account ?
This would make it impossible for the PWD or someone trying to take advantage of them to access larger sums.
My Dad lost his bank card or the cash we gave him because he had lost his bank card every week for months, then when he went into a home he lost the pocket money cash we gave hime every time we gave it to him.
When I cleared his house I found all the cash stashed in a sweetie bag at the back of a drawer in his bedroom
I assume there is a similar sweetie bag stuffed somewhere at the care home.
It's so hard isnt it, good luck
Would it be possible to open another account for the PWD, take their current bank card and replace it with the new account card and make sure that there is only ever a small sum in this account ?
This would make it impossible for the PWD or someone trying to take advantage of them to access larger sums.
My Dad lost his bank card or the cash we gave him because he had lost his bank card every week for months, then when he went into a home he lost the pocket money cash we gave hime every time we gave it to him.
When I cleared his house I found all the cash stashed in a sweetie bag at the back of a drawer in his bedroom
I assume there is a similar sweetie bag stuffed somewhere at the care home.
It's so hard isnt it, good luck
A welcome to Dementia Support Forum from me @Panda_universe. Although you haven’t said so in your post, do you suspect this family member might be taking the money? Do you feel able to say to them something along the lines of ‘it was very helpful of you to help dad take money from his account, but he doesn’t know what happened to it. Do you have any idea?’ If they have misappropriated it, it’ll flag up you’re aware if they haven’t then they might have some idea where it is. You could follow it up with something along the lines of ‘I know you were trying to be helpful, but dad doesn’t understand money any more so best to distract him if he asks you to help again.’ You could ask the bank to not allow your dad to withdraw anything over £10.00 or to only withdraw money if you are with him as POA. That depends on how well the bank know him and how clued up they are about people with dementia. My mother’s bank was very helpful, but she was well known by them which helped and she lived in a small place, even though it was a London suberb.
If you don’t feel up to that a different account might be the way to go.
If you don’t feel up to that a different account might be the way to go.
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Thank you for the reply Sarasa. I opened another account last year when I found out the family member had his PIN. I left £99.99 in the original account, and now all his income and outgoings are done through the new account. I do have my suspicions but have no proof as it's cash that goes. There was a time when they tried to use his card and the card failed. They took him to the bank and found out he had £99.99 in. They also told the bank he wanted a contactless card and ordered one. I cancelled the card when it arrived in the post as I thought Chip & Signature was more secure. When they told me a new card would be coming and that a transaction had failed they were very vague about what was being bought "something for me", I asked how much "over £100". PWD thought they were lending them money, £1,800 for a TV but then said an 18"TV. They and their mum reported me shortly after and a safeguarding alert was raised. They said he had no money, no card, and no food. All unsubstantiated and the Safeguarding team were fine with how I was running things. Communication is very difficult as this person doesn't listen and just walks away or puts the phone down. It's been like that since PWD got diagnosed.
you can limit how much he can withdraw. im always telling my husband not to carry a large amount in his wallet, he is vulnerable to snatches. i would have thought £30 would be more than enough.
I would highlight your concerns/suspicions to the bank as well, it sounds as if they are not exercising due diligence on any in branch activity and once raised with them they should become culpable for any losses. I once attended a bank with my father as he wanted to make a large withdrawal and the cashier quite plainly went through the process to ensure that I wasn't coercing my father out of his money, I was more than happy with this and even offered to wait outside if they wanted to ask any other questions. There are processes in place to protect vulnerable people and they seem to be falling short.
If your dad was accepting of the £10-£20 and wasn't needing more then I think the £30 suggested is reasonable. I drew £50 out for my OH at Christmas as we were meeting family with children and he usually gave them a small amount of spending money when we departed as we don't see regularly. He still has £22 of it left as he forgot to give spending money!
If you see him regularly you could top as needed.
If you see him regularly you could top as needed.
Definitely keep the account at a small amount and move other things , like payments in and out to a separate account with no debit card for the PWD. This way they can still access money which is absolutely their right but if any goes “ missing” ( I’m being generous here! ) then it’s not a dreadful amount . This account can then be topped up as and when. I did this with my mum when I suspected a carer was getting a bit too familiar with taking mum to get money out.
We have had to put a withdrawal limit on my Father in laws debit card as he was going to the cashpoint and taking out money and we were concerned that someone might watch him doing the transaction and steal from him.
My friend has recently ordered a card from Starling Bank for her husband. She puts £30 on and every time he uses it, the amount is flagged up on her phone and where its been used. That might be the way forward for you to manage his
money.
I would be very suspicious of your family member and would definitely mention to your bank that you are the only one with P.O.A over PWD'S finances and that he should only be allowed to withdraw money when you are with him. Good luck!
Thank you all for your replies. I think I was on the right track with how I was thinking and the steps I had already taken...new account for the bills, limit the amount in the original account that PWD could withdraw. I had spoken to the banks last year and again after this latest withdrawal. Asked that they ensure there is no prompting or coercion from others who do not have POA if he is accompanied into a branch.
I rang the OPG today and they were suggesting some of the steps already taken, along with working out how much PWD may need each week (which is the £10-20 they have been having). They have made a note of the concerns I have raised, which is reassuring particularly with the (unfounded) safeguarding alert raised against me. They also suggested contacting the local authority safeguarding team for advice and speaking to the PWD's GP. I will continue to monitor the situation.
At the end of the day, the PWD appointed me solely to be POA as I had been helping with their finances for over a decade before their diagnosis. I think sometimes it helps to get reassurance from others in similar situations, rather than just having family members who don't understand the PWD's affairs putting their two penneth in or acting in a way I wouldn't.
I rang the OPG today and they were suggesting some of the steps already taken, along with working out how much PWD may need each week (which is the £10-20 they have been having). They have made a note of the concerns I have raised, which is reassuring particularly with the (unfounded) safeguarding alert raised against me. They also suggested contacting the local authority safeguarding team for advice and speaking to the PWD's GP. I will continue to monitor the situation.
At the end of the day, the PWD appointed me solely to be POA as I had been helping with their finances for over a decade before their diagnosis. I think sometimes it helps to get reassurance from others in similar situations, rather than just having family members who don't understand the PWD's affairs putting their two penneth in or acting in a way I wouldn't.
