Has anyone used hidden camera in care home?

[Dave63]

I dint think it’s fair though tempting as it is to assume it’s always the illness.

Absolutely, I completely agree. In the small percentage of cases where it isn't the illness it's because of carers who don't have the best 'bed-side manner'. A lot of care homes will probably have someone like this, just like in any other job. In my mums care home the staff are brilliant but there are one or two who probably won't win any awards for patience and can come across as a bit abrupt. It's a balance between mum being safe and well cared for and accepting not everything or everyone is going to be perfect. It's hard sometimes because the guilt monster is constantly giving you doubts about what you should or shouldn't be doing.

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

I think some people who work as carers are just in the wrong jobs. But these are the easiest jobs to get - there are always vacancies.

It's probably worth mentioning that carers get paid exactly the same whether they have nice/easy residents all day or difficult/abusive ones. And it's not a job I could do no matter how much you paid me.

Once my mum moved to a care home, I considered my role to be keeping an eye on the staff and mum's care as far as I could. There were always shortcomings. Changes in management (3 times in 3 years) also made a big difference, some good, some not so good. I was local and visiting twice a week but it was still really difficult to get to the bottom of any issues and communication from the home was always bad.

Despite constant niggles (some bigger than others!) mum's care was good on the whole so I tried not to be picky about small things even if they bothered me.

However, mum's version of what things were like were not even close to the truth so I'd say take whatever your father tells you with a pinch of salt.

 

[canary]

I think your fears have been stoked by reports of abuse in care homes.
Yes, it does sometimes happen, but it's like reports of doctors/nurses going on a killing spree, or children being knifed in their school - it does happen, but not often. Most care homes, whilst not perfect, are not abusive.

I too think the distance is contributing to your unease. If you were closer and able to visit more often you would be able to pick up on any "off" vibes

 

[Jessbow]

Some of the language used might be because of a language issue.

The lady in the bed next to M in L in our local hospital, struggled more because certain nurses pronounced her name one way ( correctly) and others, another way.
Her name was Joan
More than a few pronounced it Jo-ann
Different people use different words to perhaps others would.
How many ways are there of asking someone if they need changing for instance? How many of us would agree which are offensive, and which are okay?

 

[maisiecat]

I think you also have to add in that PWD often have strong preferences. My husband just doesn't like some carers but I don't think there care is inappropriate or unkind.
I am at his Nursing home a lot and I find all the care to be good and kind but there are 1 or 2 carers that he tells me pick him up by his head and swing him round. As he weighs 15stone I don't need a camera to tell me thats a delusion.

 

[LewyDementiaCarer]

Gosh, it's so hard isn't it? I'd feel the same with a family member too if I overheard them being spoken to like that. If I were you, I would definitely move him closer to you so you can visit more often, which should relieve some of the 'unknown' feelings/suspicions.

I would not have any issue with someone installing a camera without my knowledge (sometimes I often wish there was one, as we take a great amount of pride in the way we care and love for the person we look after, even when it has been extremely awkward or difficult at times), but that is in a private home setting, and I guess there are more legal issues in a care home with multiple staff and residents.
That said, on a very personal level, I'm of the firm belief that a potential victim/vulnerable person is always the one who should be protected, so on an ethical level, if you truly suspect abuse of a PWD, especially a direct family member, you should be within your personal rights to monitor the situation without the carers knowledge, regardless of the rules and regulations (how else could you prove it one way or another). But I would not use that monitoring to nitpick or micro-manage anything, only to monitor and check for a few days to be sure of no abuse (verbal or physical), and I would also be prepared to accept any legal consequences at that stage - that's just me - I think welfare is more important.

 

[SMBeach]

Gosh, it's so hard isn't it? I'd feel the same with a family member too if I overheard them being spoken to like that. If I were you, I would definitely move him closer to you so you can visit more often, which should relieve some of the 'unknown' feelings/suspicions.

I would not have any issue with someone installing a camera without my knowledge (sometimes I often wish there was one, as we take a great amount of pride in the way we care and love for the person we look after, even when it has been extremely awkward or difficult at times), but that is in a private home setting, and I guess there are more legal issues in a care home with multiple staff and residents.
That said, on a very personal level, I'm of the firm belief that a potential victim/vulnerable person is always the one who should be protected, so on an ethical level, if you truly suspect abuse of a PWD, especially a direct family member, you should be within your personal rights to monitor the situation without the carers knowledge, regardless of the rules and regulations (how else could you prove it one way or another). But I would not use that monitoring to nitpick or micro-manage anything, only to monitor and check for a few days to be sure of no abuse (verbal or physical), and I would also be prepared to accept any legal consequences at that stage - that's just me - I think welfare is more important.

I agree. It’s all well and hood talking about everyone else’s ‘rights’ but what about the person in cares rights. Definately wouldn’t use it to not pick or fireard my opinions on how stuff should be done as that would be very annoying. It would only be to put my mind at rest that what I heard that day isn’t a common occurrence and that no abuse was happening. I think at this stage, dad would tell me if there was abuse but he has used the word bullies which could be dementia choice of word and not as bad as it sounds or could be just what he says. How would I know without a camera. I think moving dad down south will Definately help my mental health with all this though. It’s just the homes here aren’t great and most only want mild to moderate dementia. It’s only going to get worse, not better.

 

[northumbrian_k]

How would you know with a camera?Putting your faith in a camera and covert surveillance would, I suggest, be misguided. Without full context or even as a result of positioning of the camera images can be misinterpreted. You may have legitimate concerns and the best way to deal with them would be to raise them with the home manager. There is a huge difference between rough and possibly inappropriate speaking and abuse. If you have strong suspicion or actual evidence of abuse you need to escalate this without delay. If not, I would caution against repeated use of the term both here and more widely.

 

[SMBeach]

How would you know with a camera?Putting your faith in a camera and covert surveillance would, I suggest, be misguided. You may have legitimate concerns and the best way to deal with them would be to raise them with the home manager. There is a huge difference between rough and possibly inappropriate speaking and abuse. If you have strong suspicion or actual evidence of abuse you need to escalate this without delay. If not, I would caution against repeated use of the term both here and more widely.

Because I’d be able to see if there was a camera.
It’s for peace of mind.

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

It really is worrying when your PWD is delusional.

With mum, it was no trouble when she complained about the giraffe in her bedroom but when she said she'd had nothing to eat all morning or that 'the girls' (carers!) or 'that woman' (not sure who that was!) had shouted at her or hit her or locked her up, it always made me wonder if there was a shred of truth in there somewhere.

On one occasion mum was robbed - someone took her gold necklace and bracelet. Entirely my fault for allowing her to continue wearing them I suppose, but it was her home, not a prison and these were pieces she wore all the time. (And could not have removed herself.) The manager was mortified and we couldn't work out exactly when it happened but suspected it was one of the agency staff they'd used in the last few weeks. No way to prove anything of course.

It occurred to me at the time to put a secret camera in there. In the end I wasn't bothered about the jewellery (well, I was, but...) but my thoughts were that anyone who can cheerfully rob a vulnerable old lady with dementia probably wouldn't treat them well either.

I was put off just by the practicalities - did I want to view 24/7 camera footage to check? Because that's the only way I could have kept a close watch. Even then she wasn't always in her room so it wouldn't have covered other times/locations.

Probably the best you - or anyone - can do - is to have your loved one nearby and visit often. I always felt that the staff knew I visited randomly and checked on everything so they were less likely to 'ignore' mum. For that reason I really feel for any PWD who doesn't have someone keeping an eye on things.

I hope you can find a solution.

 

[LewyDementiaCarer]

How would you know with a camera?Putting your faith in a camera and covert surveillance would, I suggest, be misguided. You may have legitimate concerns and the best way to deal with them would be to raise them with the home manager. There is a huge difference between rough and possibly inappropriate speaking and abuse. If you have strong suspicion or actual evidence of abuse you need to escalate this without delay. If not, I would caution against repeated use of the term both here and more widely.

It's odd though isn't it... we put up with surveillance & cameras everywhere else without blinking an eyelid. We are monitored at work, in warehouses, offices, when shopping, when driving or walking through the town, through airports, gas stations and more increasingly in schools & universities, libraries, in smart cars, and buses, trains etc... But we draw the line at using the tech to protect vulnerable & elderly people in care homes? -Just seems odd to me.

 

[LewyDementiaCarer]

I agree. It’s all well and hood talking about everyone else’s ‘rights’ but what about the person in cares rights. Definately wouldn’t use it to not pick or fireard my opinions on how stuff should be done as that would be very annoying. It would only be to put my mind at rest that what I heard that day isn’t a common occurrence and that no abuse was happening. I think at this stage, dad would tell me if there was abuse but he has used the word bullies which could be dementia choice of word and not as bad as it sounds or could be just what he says. How would I know without a camera. I think moving dad down south will Definately help my mental health with all this though. It’s just the homes here aren’t great and most only want mild to moderate dementia. It’s only going to get worse, not better.

I understand, and you are correct unfortunately it only goes in one direction. I hope you can find a suitable placement a bit closer. It's incredibly hard with dementia, as you say and others are pointing out, it is virtually impossible at times to know if what they are saying actually represents reality or not. Sometimes it is very convincing yet very much in their head, but as we all know there are are cases of abuse and just inappropriate behavior that takes place too.

Personally, I'm a firm believer that families should be better reassured and if cameras in care-home rooms were an option for a direct family member to access when they wished with passwords, I feel it would benefit both the tenant/PWD, and their loved ones who may have concerns.

 

[sdmhred]

What are the current general trends for cameras in kiddies nurseries as that’s an equivalent? In my nieces one there are cameras and parents can log on for a limited time each day.

 

[SMBeach]

It's odd though isn't it... we put up with surveillance & cameras everywhere else without blinking an eyelid. We are monitored at work, in warehouses, offices, when shopping, when driving or walking through the town, through airports, gas stations and more increasingly in schools & universities, libraries, in smart cars, and buses, trains etc... But we draw the line at using the tech to protect vulnerable & elderly people in care homes? -Just seems odd to me.

That was my point. Staff and customers in shops are on cameras. You can walk past someone’s doorbell they have footage. Etc etc. That’s probably why it isn’t illegal to use them.