Cctv in private property

[#anne1947]

Hello there, I’m looking for advice. My mum has now lost capacity, she has moderate to severe dementia. She lives in her own home, She has carers 4 x a day. I’ve ordered door sensors, bed sensors, a front door doorbell camera and a smart watch falls sensor which she can press for alert also . I’m staying with mum whilst she gets used to her carers, while some odd jobs are done and while I establish a routine with her re; activities etc.. I recently found out that my sister has installed CCTV in mums house. It’s a live account and connected to the internet, she holds the account. She has previously suggested cctv and I’ve said I disagree.
I did not know it was installed while I’ve been staying with mum, carers didn’t know, there’s no signs up and I think it’s an invasion of mums privacy and not needed for her safety with all the other stuff in place. I’ve turned it off. My sister is insisting I turn it back on. How should we proceed. I don’t know where she lives she won’t tell me. Many thanks

 

[Sarasa]

Welcome to Dementia Talking Point @#anne1947
That is a tricky situation. Quite a few people here have installed cameras, and they can be useful in checking that someone that lives alone is OK. However your sister should have discussed it with you and told the carers it was there too. Also any cameras in place should allow your mother a certain amount of privacy so not in bathrooms or bedrooms. In corridors, kitchens and living rooms seems OK. Does your sister visit your mother often and what does she intend to do if she sees something that concerns her? I assume all the sensors that you've installed link to you in some way, so if you saw your mum leaving the house or a cold caller visiting your mum on the door camera you could do something about it.
I always think if you can your sister and you should try to forget your differences and work together in your mum's best interests if you can, though I appreciate if she isn't being very forthcoming with you that might be tricky.
This is a very friendly and supportive place and I'm sure others will be along soon with their suggestions. In the meantime it might be a good idea to talk things over with the support line.

Dementia Support Line

If you need dementia support, we’re here for you. Get personalised information, support and advice by calling us on 0333 150 3456.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[Jessbow]

I think it has a place.
How long do you intend staying?
is your sister aware of the things fthat you have/are putting in?
Who or what is going to respond to the door sensors once you are not there? At least with a camera, particually once with a voice, if a door is opened, someone can look at the camera and say ''Mum, close the door and go and sit down in the lounge. Sarah wwill be there soon''

 

[dc0106]

Hi all. I am the son of and POA for my 94 YO father who has been diagnosed with dementia. He lives alone in a warden assisted flat (not 24hrs but pull cords are monitored 24 hrs). Both my brother and I live abroad. He has good moments and bad moments. He has paid for company carers visit twice a day, a cleaner about once a week and a befriender once a week. My father has had a fall earlier this year in his home which at the time wasn't covered by a carers contract and was estimated to be on the floor for up to 36 hours. I am also concerned about what individual carers are actually doing for their money on some visits which is being investigated.
I want to put CCTV in all rooms as personal hygiene care is part of the issue. I know that some people say bathroom and bedroom is a no-no, but the necessity is there and in my opinion outweigh the possible infringement of human rights etc.
Assuming that on his better days he would sign for permission to install CCTV, what companies are recommended, have you used? and what companies are not recommended?
Thanks in advance for your replies

 

[Bod]

Hi all. I am the son of and POA for my 94 YO father who has been diagnosed with dementia. He lives alone in a warden assisted flat (not 24hrs but pull cords are monitored 24 hrs). Both my brother and I live abroad. He has good moments and bad moments. He has paid for company carers visit twice a day, a cleaner about once a week and a befriender once a week. My father has had a fall earlier this year in his home which at the time wasn't covered by a carers contract and was estimated to be on the floor for up to 36 hours. I am also concerned about what individual carers are actually doing for their money on some visits which is being investigated.
I want to put CCTV in all rooms as personal hygiene care is part of the issue. I know that some people say bathroom and bedroom is a no-no, but the necessity is there and in my opinion outweigh the possible infringement of human rights etc.
Assuming that on his better days he would sign for permission to install CCTV, what companies are recommended, have you used? and what companies are not recommended?
Thanks in advance for your replies

Be aware that the Carers may object to the cameras, to the extent of refusing to do the Care.
If he is unsafe in the flat, then it may be time for a Residential Care placement.

Bod

 

[Bod]

Hello there, I’m looking for advice. My mum has now lost capacity, she has moderate to severe dementia. She lives in her own home, She has carers 4 x a day. I’ve ordered door sensors, bed sensors, a front door doorbell camera and a smart watch falls sensor which she can press for alert also . I’m staying with mum whilst she gets used to her carers, while some odd jobs are done and while I establish a routine with her re; activities etc.. I recently found out that my sister has installed CCTV in mums house. It’s a live account and connected to the internet, she holds the account. She has previously suggested cctv and I’ve said I disagree.
I did not know it was installed while I’ve been staying with mum, carers didn’t know, there’s no signs up and I think it’s an invasion of mums privacy and not needed for her safety with all the other stuff in place. I’ve turned it off. My sister is insisting I turn it back on. How should we proceed. I don’t know where she lives she won’t tell me. Many thanks

How soon after switching the cameras off, did your sister make contact regarding the lack of signal?
It's all very well putting all the sensors, etc. in place, once you have returned to your home, could you react to them any faster than your sister?
Again with 4 Care visits a day, your mother is very close to being in a Care Home placement, for her safety and comfort.

Bod.

 

[northumbrian_k]

Hi @dc0106 and welcome. I have read your post a couple of times but can't see clearly what you think installing cameras will achieve. Is it about ensuring the best and most appropriate care for your father or monitoring what carers do? These are linked, of course, but being able to see what happens with intimate, personal care may show only how difficult this is to achieve. My personal view is that it would certainly infringe privacy for both your father and his carers. They may well object and refuse to attend to him if they believe that they are being monitored and assessed.

If your father needs more care and is unsafe at home then, as @Bod has suggested, a different solution is indicated.

 

[securewatch]

i really agree with you concern as justifying in cctv private property.

 

[amodio]

Hello there, I’m looking for advice. My mum has now lost capacity, she has moderate to severe dementia. She lives in her own home, She has carers 4 x a day. I’ve ordered door sensors, bed sensors, a front door doorbell camera and a smart watch falls sensor which she can press for alert also . I’m staying with mum whilst she gets used to her carers, while some odd jobs are done and while I establish a routine with her re; activities etc.. I recently found out that my sister has installed CCTV in mums house. It’s a live account and connected to the internet, she holds the account. She has previously suggested cctv and I’ve said I disagree.
I did not know it was installed while I’ve been staying with mum, carers didn’t know, there’s no signs up and I think it’s an invasion of mums privacy and not needed for her safety with all the other stuff in place. I’ve turned it off. My sister is insisting I turn it back on. How should we proceed. I don’t know where she lives she won’t tell me. Many thanks

You sister is correct, ehics has very little to do with accurate care of you family member. CCTV allowed me to monitor my mother 24 hours, my sister and I used to swap monitoring even though she lived miles away, whilst i lived 5 minutes away, i provided the onsite emergency support. The flexibility of CCTV is second to none, you can create alerts and only record if movement is noticed. In the early stages of dementia I would only use CCTV in hallways and other common areas, as the stages become more limiting for her and carers where needed more frequenly CCTV was used to see if she was falling out of bed or getting herself into trouble with stairs or in the kitchen, the only problem was it is a genuine 24 hour monitoring service. I managed in no time to be with her if she needed me, I could go shopping, even spend some time with the kids, as I could see her on my phone, if she needed me I could be there even talk to her. Even the carers used it to talk to me over the CCTV.
Forget Ethics, intrusion. legal mumbo jumbo, this tool has been a lifesaver for me, my mother, my family, right to the moment she passed. Nothing awkward happened, I was always by her side in her moment of need, I loved her dearly, the last thing I wanted for her was to feel abandoned, even if I was not physically there sometimes, I still had a family life.

 

[JenGrey]

I have cctv installed in the living room where my mum has her bed and living area. It's been a godsend. When speaking to medical professionals we decided a fall sensor was no use because she doesn't fall with a bang, but loses balance, slides gently down furniture and ends up sitting on the floor. So when I'm out I can just do a quick check and see she's okay and not on the floor.

Her social worker wasn't overly happy with it but never came up with anything as an alternative.

When I was out for a Christmas meal I tuned in to see her sat on the floor, so could get help for her quickly, as I was about an hour away.

I'm with your sister and think it's a good idea.

 

[Liberty and Tiesha]

Surely nobody with an ounce of morals would set out to infringe on their loved ones privacy or take away their dignity, especially where cctv is used for safety... but shouldn't that be the priority here 'Safety first'? I have cctv in my home and if I was to have a stroke or heart attack the last thing on my mind would be my flaming dignity but moreso getting some help that could save my life!

My parents gave written consent to me to put cctv in their home back when they had full capacity. Firstly they were frightened getting old in a home where they once had armed robbers attack them and secondly my mum is high risk of stroke due to a rare condition. My dad began losing capacity and when mum had a stroke he couldn't dial an ambulance through blind panic and confusion. Luckily a family member turned up and dialed the paramedics who saved her life. After their ordeal my mum asked me to put cameras in because she was so scared of it happening again, and my dad then spent time in hospital and on coming home was scared he would get confused and leave the house during the night so he asked I put a camera over the bedroom door. I did it just temporarily for him to help him feel secure and to give the family peace of mind.

I removed this camera 2 days later because I learnt of the legal implications of having cctv near a bedroom. It makes no sense that my parents ask me to help dress them because the carers don't always do it, but I can't use a camera in their bedroom for their own safety. They are not embarrassed about their bodies and want to feel safe but because of the red tape I feel I am unable to do what they ask from me.

All my family agree that cctv is used as a lifesaving device and we feel very sad that the system doesn't prioritise safety over dignity where family is concerned. Of course I wouldn't expect strangers to monitor it but surely family are only concerned about keeping their loved ones safe and are not spying on them.

They have cctv still fitted in their hallway, living room and kitchen. Now that they are losing capacity I'm told by social services that this will have to be passed onto the court of protection to make sure its permissable. My dad told me today that he's scared incase he has another fall while my mum is in bed and nobody finds him. He was reassured that I would check in on him through the day. My parents would be lost without the reassurance the CCTV gives them. They do not want to go into care, and I respect their wishes while they still have some capacity and their needs are being met at home.

However it feels so wrong that this isn't made easy for them. They would be horrified if they thought that I had to battle the system to keep them safe.

 

[GeorgieW]

I use ring camera's. One in the living room, kitchen, outside and at the top of the stairs. I can track Mum when she is up and around and check that all is OK when I am not there through movement notifications. It is an infringement of privacy but I would rather she was safe.

I have been told that when we have house viewings we need to let people know about the camera's.

 

[Liberty and Tiesha]

I use ring camera's. One in the living room, kitchen, outside and at the top of the stairs. I can track Mum when she is up and around and check that all is OK when I am not there through movement notifications. It is an infringement of privacy but I would rather she was safe.

I have been told that when we have house viewings we need to let people know about the camera's.

I put a cctv sticker on the mirror in the hallway so people are aware when they enter.

 

[dq79]

Surely nobody with an ounce of morals would set out to infringe on their loved ones privacy or take away their dignity, especially where cctv is used for safety... but shouldn't that be the priority here 'Safety first'? I have cctv in my home and if I was to have a stroke or heart attack the last thing on my mind would be my flaming dignity but moreso getting some help that could save my life!

My parents gave written consent to me to put cctv in their home back when they had full capacity. Firstly they were frightened getting old in a home where they once had armed robbers attack them and secondly my mum is high risk of stroke due to a rare condition. My dad began losing capacity and when mum had a stroke he couldn't dial an ambulance through blind panic and confusion. Luckily a family member turned up and dialed the paramedics who saved her life. After their ordeal my mum asked me to put cameras in because she was so scared of it happening again, and my dad then spent time in hospital and on coming home was scared he would get confused and leave the house during the night so he asked I put a camera over the bedroom door. I did it just temporarily for him to help him feel secure and to give the family peace of mind.

I removed this camera 2 days later because I learnt of the legal implications of having cctv near a bedroom. It makes no sense that my parents ask me to help dress them because the carers don't always do it, but I can't use a camera in their bedroom for their own safety. They are not embarrassed about their bodies and want to feel safe but because of the red tape I feel I am unable to do what they ask from me.

All my family agree that cctv is used as a lifesaving device and we feel very sad that the system doesn't prioritise safety over dignity where family is concerned. Of course I wouldn't expect strangers to monitor it but surely family are only concerned about keeping their loved ones safe and are not spying on them.

They have cctv still fitted in their hallway, living room and kitchen. Now that they are losing capacity I'm told by social services that this will have to be passed onto the court of protection to make sure its permissable. My dad told me today that he's scared incase he has another fall while my mum is in bed and nobody finds him. He was reassured that I would check in on him through the day. My parents would be lost without the reassurance the CCTV gives them. They do not want to go into care, and I respect their wishes while they still have some capacity and their needs are being met at home.

However it feels so wrong that this isn't made easy for them. They would be horrified if they thought that I had to battle the system to keep them safe.

I wonder if social services are considering a community Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards authorisation, this would be to support and ratify restrictive measures in place for your parents safety, providing it is in their best interests and no less restrictive means available.
https://mental-capacity.co.uk/commu...,Protection, this process is known as ‘Re- X’.