Visitor for tea - police called

[Chunky12]

I cannot believe that yesterday I had to call the police to have a “visitor” removed from Mum’s house.
He started talking to her outside a local charity shop. Walked home with her, after chatter about the garden, Mum invited him in for a cup of tea.
My brother and I can see all this happening as we have cameras outside and two inside the house - for safety as Mum lives alone and was cuckooed two years ago, as well as being a target for anyone who comes knocking.
On seeing someone we didn’t recognise at her house making themselves comfortable, I decided to pop round.
“Innocently”, shouting hello mum as I went in the house, the chap concerned saw me and said “and who’s this?”
I said hello and gave my name and said I was her daughter.,
He told me his name and the road he lived on. So quite open.
I asked mum how she was and mum smiled and said fine thank you.

I said I hadn’t seen him around at mum’s before and that me and my brother were quite protective of mum. I asked how he knew her - he replied quite nervously not getting his words out easily but said they'd just met outside a local charity shop!
He then went on to say he’d offered to do some gardening for Mum.
I said it was very kind of him but my brother and I helped mum out with all things to do with the house and had a gardener sorted.
Mum then said “and when was that all planned” . I explained someone my brother and I knew had come round and discussed with her what needed to be done with the garden (it’s got very very overgrown).
The “visitor” then said he’d do it for free .. I said that’s very kind but no - he then very aggressively said “and how much is he going to charge?”
I was stunned! And said I don’t think that’s any of your business.
He replied but I’m offering to do it for free. I said I wasn’t going to discuss this with a stranger .
Mum started to get very agitated.
I said to the visitor I think it’s best if you leave now.
Mum jumped up and shouted “no, he’s not leaving, you are - get out, this is my house!”
I looked at the man and asked him “please could you leave” -
He said “no, your mum says I can stay!”
I was stunned - mum was screaming at me to get out and telling him to stay .. i said to him if you have any respect and understanding you would leave.
It was so obvious that this was becoming a volatile and upsetting situation, it is also so obvious that mum has dementia.
He continued to refuse shaking his head at me and smirking.
I didn’t know what to do so said I would call the police. He laughed and said they can’t do anything.
I called them.
Mum was highly agitated by now, screaming at me to get out, becoming very aggressive - I had by this time removed myself from the room , mum following me.
She then hit me and started grabbing at me .. I went outside and she followed yelling at me.
The police arrived within 15 mins .. I was outside Mums house .. mum was in her drive , man still in the house.
He refused to leave when the police arrived, refused to give his details and argued with the police.
Mum did the same.
We are not used to this type of drama and this man caused it all, wanting to cause a scene.
2 hrs after I arrived the police arrested him for breach of the peace.
Mum was vitriolic to me saying how vile I was, and she was going to tell everyone of all the bad things I’ve done.
I was shaking and upset … the whole scenario caused by this man who she randomly met outside a shop.
This was a series of unfortunate events - Mum’s carers came at 11:45 and Mum went out at 11:35 (to get dog food which she does 4 x a day) … if only she’d been in for her carers (she has the times in front of her) none of this would have happened.

But what happens now?
The police have done a safeguarding report. Mum was assessed a few weeks ago as not having capacity, and we’re attempting to discuss changing her care package. She has carers in for 1 hr a day but Mum hates it - after she was admitted to hospital twice in a week , this was part of what we had to put in place to keep her safe and at home.

She’s not taking her medication as she should, feeding her food to the seagulls, feeding the dogs goodness knows what, personal care is questionable (grubby clothes, hair not washed for months), accusing us of all sorts, trying to take large sums of money out of the bank (£3000), and losing money/bank card, hallucinating, uninhibited with what she says - told the police she was not having sex with six men (!) - and now this episode with this man.

Mum hates and will fight any intervention or help from me and my brother. She is fiercely stubborn and feisty. These characteristics have got her through life but seem amplified and negative with Alzheimer’s

This is not my mum. And if my old mum knew what was happening she would be mortified.
My mum was a proud, sociable, intelligent and hugely respected lady, immaculately turned out and did not suffer fools.

She is well known in the community as has lived here for 60 yrs, and every one knows her and looks out for her. … those that don’t know me and my brother, will know of us .. her two neighbours were shocked by what panned out yesterday.

Sorry I’ve really off loaded here .. but it’s all so alien - just want to anticipate what could happen next after the police incident -
Any mention of increased care is met with an aggressive response - but mum is proving she is a risk to herself now .

Thanks for reading such a long post.

 

[Izzy]

I’m so sorry to read about what happened @Chunky12. How incredibly scary and worrying for you.

Thank goodness the police responded and the man was removed. Your mum is clearly vulnerable Does she have a care manager? If so then it might be wise to have a discussion with them regarding your mum’s vulnerability. The police involvement will mean that the visit will be recorded and the social work department should be notified by them. This should emphasise to SW how worrying your mum’s situation is.

I’m sorry not to be of much help. I’m glad you did come here and share. I wonder if it would be of any help to talk with someone on the Admiral Nurse helpline for advice.

What is an Admiral Nurse and how can they help?

Dementia UK is a charity that provides Admiral Nurses for families affected by dementia. Call our Dementia Helpline to find out how we can support you.

www.dementiauk.org

 

[Kristo]

This sounds terrifying, thank goodness you were close by and able to intervene. It’s sad to think how some people can prey on the vulnerable. It sounds as if your mum is very vulnerable indeed, and time for a review of her care package.

My dad was extremely resistant to any support (as there was “nothing wrong with me”) and he could get extremely verbally aggressive and agitated. We ended up having to arrange respite because my mum needed a hip replacement and he had stayed there ever since. He settled so well, the aggression is gone and the relief to know that he is safe is unbelievable. I’m not saying that residential care is your only option, just that I never would have believed that Dad would have accepted living in a care home, but he is thriving there.

I think there comes a time where you have to do what your loved one needs, not what they want. Their wants are being skewed by the dementia anyway - if she were in her “right mind” (horrible phrase, sorry!) would she want you and your brother to keep trying to help her? Or to give in to her independent ways that mean she is not eating properly, carrying out basic hygiene and potentially losing large amounts of money?

It’s really hard to be the “bad guy” but I had to step in and do that for my dad because no-one else in the family could bring themselves to do it.

Sorry this has turned into a longer response than intended, but I feel worried for your mum, even though I don’t know her.

One other thing: dementia patients really pick up on emotions, so if you were feeling worried, intimidated, angry with that horrible man, then that’s what your mum picked up on and then she mirrored those feelings back to you, as you are her safe person. She probably doesn’t remember what happened by now, or if she does it will be the emotions that remain. I hope you get more support for mum and that none of you ever see that horrible man again x

 

[Violet Jane]

What a dreadful incident.

Do you have an LPA for property and financial affairs? If you do, I would activate it now. If you don't you should consider applying for deputyship. Are the bank aware of your mother's dementia? You could inform them that she is vulnerable to financial abuse but there is a risk that they will freeze her account. How does your mother pay for things? If in cash then the bank should be alert to suspicious and unusual activity.

I wonder whether it's now time for your mother to go into a care home. She has no insight into her vulnerability and is resistant to measures to protect her. Contact SS and tell them that your mother has allowed a stranger - who is trying to get money off her - into her home. Plus other aspects of her life are unsatisfactory (not eating, dirty etc).

 

[Dave63]

You did exactly the right thing @Chunky12. It sounds like he knew your mum was vulnerable and an easy target and the fact he refused to leave when asked by both you and the police shows his actions were nefarious in nature. Your mum may not see things the same way as you but that's the illness talking. Thank goodness she has such a great family looking out for her.

 

[Grannie G]

This is so frightening @Chunky12

It goes without saying your mother is at risk despite your best actions to try to keep her safe.

She still is very strong in the ways she feels she is protecting herself and her independence but it is not in her own best interests and this is what she is unable to realise.

I doubt you will be able to get her into residential care yet which means you might have to wait for a crisis your cameras don`t pick up.

This is what`s so awful about dementia.

 

[sdmhred]

Oh @Chunky12

This is not how you expect a sunny Thursday to go! Well done for being so assertive. And for the police for stepping up here too so promptly to protect your mum.
The police should alert social services. Let’s hope now the man is rumbled he will no longer try it on with your mum.
I know there’s much debate over cameras ( which I used). Shows how useful they were here.

i expect you may feel shaky for the next few days. Look after yourself

 

[Chunky12]

Thank you all for your kind words, support and advice.
Needless to say Mum has not remembered yesterday .. I called her and the phone call went well, though she had been ill over night. Neighbour checjed on her this morning.
Thank goodness for the cameras as we’d have never known - the care team know about them and the managers were hugely supportive - they safeguard the carers as much as our mum.
We have a meeting with the care team next week and know also the police have filed a safeguarding report.
The sad thing is that man caused all this distress and for what? If he had been a “friend” and kind person he would have known my mum and us as a family then this type of belligerent behaviour and drama is just not us. So vey very sad.

 

[PeaceLily54]

@Chunky12
My heart goes out to you. What a horrendous incident! That 'stranger' sounds very much like he wanted to take advantage of the situation. Good on you, you managed the situation very well and did the right thing calling the Police. well done.

Can you increase your mother's visits with the Carers to coincide with the timing of medication? I think you may have to insist with Social services as she can no longer take her medication appropriately and there is also a question of her self-care and Safeguarding. I did the same with my mother; two Carers visiting at breakfast, lunch, tea-time and evening. she insisted she did not need anyone but I had to put my foot down in the beginning and hope for the best. Fortunately she gets on very well with one of the Carers and now the evening carer too. I have to admit it has been a struggle.

It sent chills down my spine when I read your post and sounds very similar to a situation I experienced with my mother, where one of my brothers' (don't get me started!) brought a perfect stranger he'd only known for 3mths into my mum's flat when he visited her. She too is a strong feisty and very house-proud woman and in her right mind would not want visitors to see her like that. We pre-warned my brother previously not to bring friends with him whilst visiting her and that it was inappropriate due to her vulnerability and when I questioned the 'stranger' (politely and innocently) who was quite comfortable on the settee she turned on me telling me I had no 'etiquette' and started yelling at me, I turned out to be the 'bad guy' of the situation! so frustrating.

I have since installed cameras in her flat but it fills me with dread sometimes, fortunately she lives in Sheltered Accommodation-Independent Living but I fear she may open the door to the wrong person. I find myself checking the cameras if I notice heightened activity now.

I do hope you can increase your mother's visits, speak to Social services. Chin up.

 

[SAP]

My mum started to get into similar situations although no police needed but only because she had good neighbour I think.
I know others have asked but do you have LPA for health and welfare and one for finance. If your mum has been assessed as no longer having mental capacity then others need to take a lead in ensuring her safety regardless of what she wants. This can either be you and your brother if your mum is self funding or social services if she does not have the finances to pay for care. If she is self funding , you can look at putting in 24/7 home care but it is very expensive ( I did this for a year) or have you and your brother discussed residential care for her ( you mum will say no abut again this is about needs not wants) If she will need funding , get onto the ss and express you concerns about her safety on the back of the police incident. And keep going n at them until they take action.
This is a tough time , it’s scary and stressful and feels never ending but once things are sorted and your mum is safe it does get easier. Keep coming back here for advice and support.

 

[Chunky12]

This sounds terrifying, thank goodness you were close by and able to intervene. It’s sad to think how some people can prey on the vulnerable. It sounds as if your mum is very vulnerable indeed, and time for a review of her care package.

My dad was extremely resistant to any support (as there was “nothing wrong with me”) and he could get extremely verbally aggressive and agitated. We ended up having to arrange respite because my mum needed a hip replacement and he had stayed there ever since. He settled so well, the aggression is gone and the relief to know that he is safe is unbelievable. I’m not saying that residential care is your only option, just that I never would have believed that Dad would have accepted living in a care home, but he is thriving there.

I think there comes a time where you have to do what your loved one needs, not what they want. Their wants are being skewed by the dementia anyway - if she were in her “right mind” (horrible phrase, sorry!) would she want you and your brother to keep trying to help her? Or to give in to her independent ways that mean she is not eating properly, carrying out basic hygiene and potentially losing large amounts of money?

It’s really hard to be the “bad guy” but I had to step in and do that for my dad because no-one else in the family could bring themselves to do it.

Sorry this has turned into a longer response than intended, but I feel worried for your mum, even though I don’t know her.

One other thing: dementia patients really pick up on emotions, so if you were feeling worried, intimidated, angry with that horrible man, then that’s what your mum picked up on and then she mirrored those feelings back to you, as you are her safe person. She probably doesn’t remember what happened by now, or if she does it will be the emotions that remain. I hope you get more support for mum and that none of you ever see that horrible man again x

Thank you so much - it’s seems as though my Mum’s behaviour is similar to that of your Dad’s and that in itself is reassuring as it’s just not us and our situation.
The advice about the PWD picking up on our feelings etc would make sense; dementia seems to amplify some instinctive behaviours and almost a sixth sense … you can see why in centuries past a PWD would have been cast in a very different light and ostracised from the community with people.
Mum doesn’t remember anything of Thursday at all. 😞🥹 yet it’s there ingrained on our memory.
Thank you for your reassuring reply. Take care x

 

[Chunky12]

I’m so sorry to read about what happened @Chunky12. How incredibly scary and worrying for you.

Thank goodness the police responded and the man was removed. Your mum is clearly vulnerable Does she have a care manager? If so then it might be wise to have a discussion with them regarding your mum’s vulnerability. The police involvement will mean that the visit will be recorded and the social work department should be notified by them. This should emphasise to SW how worrying your mum’s situation is.

I’m sorry not to be of much help. I’m glad you did come here and share. I wonder if it would be of any help to talk with someone on the Admiral Nurse helpline for advice.

What is an Admiral Nurse and how can they help?

Dementia UK is a charity that provides Admiral Nurses for families affected by dementia. Call our Dementia Helpline to find out how we can support you.

www.dementiauk.org

Thank you. I will do 🙏

 

[Chunky12]

What a dreadful incident.

Do you have an LPA for property and financial affairs? If you do, I would activate it now. If you don't you should consider applying for deputyship. Are the bank aware of your mother's dementia? You could inform them that she is vulnerable to financial abuse but there is a risk that they will freeze her account. How does your mother pay for things? If in cash then the bank should be alert to suspicious and unusual activity.

I wonder whether it's now time for your mother to go into a care home. She has no insight into her vulnerability and is resistant to measures to protect her. Contact SS and tell them that your mother has allowed a stranger - who is trying to get money off her - into her home. Plus other aspects of her life are unsatisfactory (not eating, dirty etc).

Fortunately, we do have LPoA for both - without it the police may not have been able to do what they did as Mum would be the one who made the decisions. She’s also been assessed as not having capacity further strengthening me being Abbie to make the rational and reasonable decision for her. I believe that LPoA is only “live” when the PWD is assessed as not having capacity so it’s not quite as clear cut as just having it in place.
We are trying to be subtle and encourage Mum that some time away for a break might be an idea .. respite .. but that’s a whole other can of worms and as she’s got two dogs, causes other issues.
Thank you for your kind reply and reassurance x

 

[Chunky12]

You did exactly the right thing @Chunky12. It sounds like he knew your mum was vulnerable and an easy target and the fact he refused to leave when asked by both you and the police shows his actions were nefarious in nature. Your mum may not see things the same way as you but that's the illness talking. Thank goodness she has such a great family looking out for her.

Thank you for your reassurance and kind words. I was questioning my actions and response to the situation by calling the police - but my mum is so vulnerable but still so very strong willed and feisty! We want her to be safe in her own home and why should some random person dictate that can’t be the case.
Thank you 🙏

 

[Chunky12]

This is so frightening @Chunky12

It goes without saying your mother is at risk despite your best actions to try to keep her safe.

She still is very strong in the ways she feels she is protecting herself and her independence but it is not in her own best interests and this is what she is unable to realise.

I doubt you will be able to get her into residential care yet which means you might have to wait for a crisis your cameras don`t pick up.

This is what`s so awful about dementia.

Thank you ..you’re right about not getting her into a care home but only due my Mum resisting and I have to say we want her to stay in her own home - she’s been there for 60 yrs! It’s our family home.
We’re trying everything we can do to keep her safe - but as others have mentioned, my brother and I are seen as the bad guys and she fights every bit of help and advice we give her ….however much we say we love her and care for her. 😞
It’s the nature of this destructive illness - it does rip the heart out of families.

 

[Chunky12]

Oh @Chunky12

This is not how you expect a sunny Thursday to go! Well done for being so assertive. And for the police for stepping up here too so promptly to protect your mum.
The police should alert social services. Let’s hope now the man is rumbled he will no longer try it on with your mum.
I know there’s much debate over cameras ( which I used). Shows how useful they were here.

i expect you may feel shaky for the next few days. Look after yourself

Thank you. Yes, the police did a safeguarding report.
It’s just taking each day at a time at the moment.
I’m calmer now but Friday and Saturday felt exhausted and very emotional.

 

[Violet Jane]

It is my understanding that you can action a financial POA before the person loses capacity if the POA allows it. My husband was a financial attorney for an elderly friend and did just that. I don't think that he was asked to prove lack of capacity. Our friend's access to her accounts was actually withdrawn, which I'm not sure was correct, but he didn't challenge this as she lived alone and had substantial savings. She didn't object because she wasn't going out and didn't buy things online and we ordered her shopping and paid for everything on her behalf. If you want your mother to still have some access to her money then I would be inclined to move most of it into an account that can't be accessed easily.

I believe that you do have to establish lack of capacity to action the welfare POA.

With dementia, you are balancing the desire to allow the person to be independent against the need to keep him/her self. As a financial attorney you have a duty to protect your mother's assets and there comes a point where what she wants is not the determining factor.

You are in a very difficult situation. Fortunately, we didn't have these problems with either my mother, for whom we had the old-style EPOA, or our friend.

 

[SAP]

Fortunately, we do have LPoA for both - without it the police may not have been able to do what they did as Mum would be the one who made the decisions. She’s also been assessed as not having capacity further strengthening me being Abbie to make the rational and reasonable decision for her. I believe that LPoA is only “live” when the PWD is assessed as not having capacity so it’s not quite as clear cut as just having it in place.
We are trying to be subtle and encourage Mum that some time away for a break might be an idea .. respite .. but that’s a whole other can of worms and as she’s got two dogs, causes other issues.
Thank you for your kind reply and reassurance x

LPA for finance can be used immediately unless the document states otherwise. LPA for H&W can only be used once the person no longer has mental capacity which I think you said earlier is the case. So you should be able to act on both now.

 

[Sarasa]

Your incident with your mum @Chunky12 sounds very much like the one that lead me to move mum into care. Mum Forgot she was in her nineties and started going to the local pub to flirt with the young men there. She brought one home on at least one occasion. Fortunately he seemed honourable and told her not to invite people home. Her best friend and I said the same thing and mum agreed, till the next time she went out.
I came up with loads of lies to get mum into care, basically saying it was a temporary move till somewhere near my brother was available. As your mum is no longer deemed to have capacity I’d start looking for suitable places, as it could take time to find somewhere suitable.
Unless it says otherwise you can use the finance LPA without needing to prove your mum has lost capacity. I started keeping an eye on things as soon as we’d got it, and gradually started doing more and more.

 

[Chunky12]

With dementia, you are balancing the desire to allow the person to be independent against the need to keep him/her self. As a financial attorney you have a duty to protect your mother's assets and there comes a point where what she wants is not the determining factor.

That is so true - she is not processing anything rationally. And we know mum of old would know we're doing our best to keep her safe yet still be “independent”.
Unfortunately, dementia mum believes being resistant, and somewhat aggressive she’s still in control. Thank you for your wise words x