As mums conditions worsens I am considering CHC. I know it's a minefield but secured funding for dad for 2years prior to his death so worth a try. I am concerned that as mum poses no huge problems the wording in her files may suggest she is an easy, low needs case. Do I just ask to see her Care Home files? What resistance might I face? Thank you all
Viewing care home records
- Thread starter Angel Eyes
- Start date
If you have POA the care home must show you her records; I found that the care home were very happy to allow relatives to read the files, they had nothing to hide.
To be honest, if your mother has no behavioural problems or other serious health conditions then obtaining CHC funding will be extremely difficult. Even the latter will not suffice for many authorities.
Viewing and even reviewing your mother's care home files is your right if you have LPA as Jan has said. However, I did not have this but as next of kin I had free access to the files whenever I wanted. I was also involved in reviewing them annually and was asked to sign that I agreed with everything written there.
Viewing and even reviewing your mother's care home files is your right if you have LPA as Jan has said. However, I did not have this but as next of kin I had free access to the files whenever I wanted. I was also involved in reviewing them annually and was asked to sign that I agreed with everything written there.
We were allowed to view the nursing home records for Mum but not to see her care plan. I thought the approach taken was daft and wrong. I felt I should have been able to see the care plan - Mum is the customer after all.
I didn't push this issue at the time because it was quite clear the staff were actually doing a good job of caring for Mum ... and that was the most important thing.
Has anyone else experienced similar limitations? Did they get a sensible explanation why they couldn't see the care plan please? None of us had Deputyship at the time but the home knew we were family and very actively involved in supporting Mum.
I didn't push this issue at the time because it was quite clear the staff were actually doing a good job of caring for Mum ... and that was the most important thing.
Has anyone else experienced similar limitations? Did they get a sensible explanation why they couldn't see the care plan please? None of us had Deputyship at the time but the home knew we were family and very actively involved in supporting Mum.
I was given a copy of the care plan but I found it pretty meaningless. In the fluid situation that comes with AZ you can't plan anything in a particularly meaningful way in my view certainly not in my wife's case.
It interests me far more that from the minute I walk through the door the staff will tell me; where she is, when she got up, what kind of a moods she's in, and what she had to eat and drink that day, that's my idea of care.
There's a written record in her room of when she went to bed, any time she set off the pressure mat during the night, nightly checks and who and when she got up.
Medical records are in the nurse's office and I can see them whenever I want, they only confirm what the staff what have already told me, visits from the doctor, changes in medication courses of antibiotics and the like. I don't believe I've seen anything in her records that would be much use in a CHC application it's a medical record and there's nothing much medically wrong with her it's all behavioural and as far as I can see behavioural issues don't count for much when it comes to CHC.
K
It interests me far more that from the minute I walk through the door the staff will tell me; where she is, when she got up, what kind of a moods she's in, and what she had to eat and drink that day, that's my idea of care.
There's a written record in her room of when she went to bed, any time she set off the pressure mat during the night, nightly checks and who and when she got up.
Medical records are in the nurse's office and I can see them whenever I want, they only confirm what the staff what have already told me, visits from the doctor, changes in medication courses of antibiotics and the like. I don't believe I've seen anything in her records that would be much use in a CHC application it's a medical record and there's nothing much medically wrong with her it's all behavioural and as far as I can see behavioural issues don't count for much when it comes to CHC.
K
On the contrary Kevin, I think behavioural issues are more likely to be successful in gaining CHC funding than many medical ones. Severe aggression invariably gains it because of the extra care necessary in dealing with it. My husband had a number of severe medical conditions apart from those brought on by dementia but was refused it as he was mainly compliant.
I also found his Care plan extremely useful when preparing his case for the CHC application as I was able to find examples of incidents and treatment etc. which were relevant to the various catergories of the DST. The Care Plan was a record of just about everything that happened to or concerned my husband within the NH. Records of weight, skin integrity, visits from external medical personnel for various health problems etc.
The care staff were happy to inform me of day to day things about my husband when I made my daily visits but they would not have been aware of a lot that was written in his care plan as this was very much the nurse's domain. The carers would receive their instructions from her.
Perhaps other homes differ in their records.
I also found his Care plan extremely useful when preparing his case for the CHC application as I was able to find examples of incidents and treatment etc. which were relevant to the various catergories of the DST. The Care Plan was a record of just about everything that happened to or concerned my husband within the NH. Records of weight, skin integrity, visits from external medical personnel for various health problems etc.
The care staff were happy to inform me of day to day things about my husband when I made my daily visits but they would not have been aware of a lot that was written in his care plan as this was very much the nurse's domain. The carers would receive their instructions from her.
Perhaps other homes differ in their records.
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I agree it can be incredibly difficult obtaining CHC funding.
Technically 'Behaviour' is one of the main areas with a 'Priority' rating which could trigger it.
But we've now had 3 years when the initial first check gives Mum a 'positive rating' but then when they do the full check even though I believe she should have most areas with a High or Severe need, somehow these are always 'downplayed' and when sent to panel have always been refused.
I've more or less been told, that only in the event of Mum being in the very last 'active state of dying' when I could apply for a Fast Track assessment, am I likely to be awarded it for her.
Mum has been at stage 7d for more than 2 years now.
She has irregular periods of ASCs, but these still only scored as Medium
She is on the highest level (Severe) for Communication & Mobility.
Nutrition is still Low because she is actually managing to put on weight! She is still able to swallow after constant prompting and despite taking an hour or so they just keep going until the plate is empty and of course being unable to move uses very few calories.
Skin integrity is maintained due to the high level of care, so again scored as Medium.
Continence, although doubly incontinent does require weekly invasive procedure so again only Medium.
Breathing is only problematic when she has her 'episodes', so scored as None, as are her Psychological Needs
Being completely non-communicative and generally apathetic she isn't able to score anything for Behaviour.
She is only awarded FNC I reckon because of her Drug therapies.
Like you I though using her Care records might help and last time I quoted her weight losses and gains, her episodes of unconsciousness/ seizures, but they had no effect on the judgement.
I also think where you live and the pressures on the finances can impact enormously. I live in an area with a much higher percentage of people living into their 90s and 100s. The two neighbouring villages are both in the top 20 places to live to have a longer life and I know the PCT (or whatever it's current title is) really struggles to balance the books.
In fact I don't know anyone who has been awarded CHC and everyone I know in my age range has one relative dealing with dementia.
Technically 'Behaviour' is one of the main areas with a 'Priority' rating which could trigger it.
But we've now had 3 years when the initial first check gives Mum a 'positive rating' but then when they do the full check even though I believe she should have most areas with a High or Severe need, somehow these are always 'downplayed' and when sent to panel have always been refused.
I've more or less been told, that only in the event of Mum being in the very last 'active state of dying' when I could apply for a Fast Track assessment, am I likely to be awarded it for her.
Mum has been at stage 7d for more than 2 years now.
She has irregular periods of ASCs, but these still only scored as Medium
She is on the highest level (Severe) for Communication & Mobility.
Nutrition is still Low because she is actually managing to put on weight! She is still able to swallow after constant prompting and despite taking an hour or so they just keep going until the plate is empty and of course being unable to move uses very few calories.
Skin integrity is maintained due to the high level of care, so again scored as Medium.
Continence, although doubly incontinent does require weekly invasive procedure so again only Medium.
Breathing is only problematic when she has her 'episodes', so scored as None
, as are her Psychological NeedsBeing completely non-communicative and generally apathetic she isn't able to score anything for Behaviour.
She is only awarded FNC I reckon because of her Drug therapies.
Like you I though using her Care records might help and last time I quoted her weight losses and gains, her episodes of unconsciousness/ seizures, but they had no effect on the judgement.
I also think where you live and the pressures on the finances can impact enormously. I live in an area with a much higher percentage of people living into their 90s and 100s. The two neighbouring villages are both in the top 20 places to live to have a longer life and I know the PCT (or whatever it's current title is) really struggles to balance the books.
In fact I don't know anyone who has been awarded CHC and everyone I know in my age range has one relative dealing with dementia.
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