Transfer of part of property to a child

[Raggedrobin]

Hi, can anyone explain this to me? It doesn't affect me as my mum has no capacity and couldn't do this, but someone was telling me that when a person makes a will (while they are fit and able) they can will their half to someone else, like a child, rather than their spouse. And that an increasing number of people are doing this, because it means when it comes to care home situations, the LA can't touch the house because it only partly belongs to the person requiring care.
Is this correct? It sounds a bit of a scam to avoid fees.

 

[Noorza]

A will won't make the slightest bit of difference, the will doesn't come into play until after the person dies.

Do you mean if the put the house or part of the house into trust for the children?

Or sell half of the house to a child whilst living?

 

[nmintueo]

And that an increasing number of people are doing this, because it means when it comes to care home situations, the LA can't touch the house because it only partly belongs to the person requiring care.
Is this correct? It sounds a bit of a scam to avoid fees.

Yes, it does sound a bit of a dodge, doesn't it?

Might be legal or not -- it all rather depends -- and in any case, the local authorities' recovery efforts may be patchy.

My Dad's will put 50% of estate in trust for kids if my Mum went into care...
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?45656

Selling joint owned house when I'm 60
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?69649

Will "tenants in common" have to sell Mums house for care home fees?
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?44409

Councill has told me to rent out bungalow to pay my step mother's care home fees
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?69183


Putting house into 'Trust'
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?47959

putting my dads house into an Asset protection scheme
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?45003

signing over a house
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?49224


26 February 2012
Families hide their wealth to avoid care home costs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17147047

Some relatives of pensioners are hiding their parents' full wealth to avoid paying care home fees and many local authorities are failing to use the available legal powers to claw the money back.​

Financial Good News.......well for me at least.
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?71013

 

[jenniferpa]

Hi, can anyone explain this to me? It doesn't affect me as my mum has no capacity and couldn't do this, but someone was telling me that when a person makes a will (while they are fit and able) they can will their half to someone else, like a child, rather than their spouse. And that an increasing number of people are doing this, because it means when it comes to care home situations, the LA can't touch the house because it only partly belongs to the person requiring care.
Is this correct? It sounds a bit of a scam to avoid fees.

If you mean a situation where there is a well spouse and a spouse with dementia, and the well spouse changes their will to leave their share of the property to the children and the well spouse subsequently dies before spouse with dementia, that's a legitimate (at this time) way to potentially reduce care home fees. I say potentially as you will definitely be hassled by the LA but CRAG does cover this issue.

 

[Raggedrobin]

Thanks for replies, I got this second hand from someone, they just said that 'everyone is changing their wills these days' to make sure the children are, well I think, tenants in common. but I am hazy in the details so probably shouldn't have asked but thanks for all the info, I had just wondered if there was something 'everyone is doing' but it appears not to be the case.

 

[vernumamy]

Hi, can anyone explain this to me? It doesn't affect me as my mum has no capacity and couldn't do this, but someone was telling me that when a person makes a will (while they are fit and able) they can will their half to someone else, like a child, rather than their spouse. And that an increasing number of people are doing this, because it means when it comes to care home situations, the LA can't touch the house because it only partly belongs to the person requiring care.
Is this correct? It sounds a bit of a scam to avoid fees.

Yes, it is called tenants in common, it costs about £30.00- £50.00 to do. I would suggest that anybody thinking of this has a good read about it, as it doesn't suit everybody's circumstances.

However, if a home is " jointly owned " ( 50/50 ) then on that basis, when changed to " tenants in common " the home is split normally on a 50/50 share, and this 50% share can be willed and " possibly " protected, to anybody.

Just to add, you mention " if it is something everyone is doing, but it appears not to be the case ", this is purely my own personal opinion, but this is something that " most " people " should " be doing.

 

[FifiMo]

Raggedrobin,

It is a perfectly legal way for each interested party in a property to 'protect' their share and to have the right to transfer this to a beneficiary of their choosing on death. With joint ownership, when one party dies the other 'joint' owner would inherit the property in it's entirety. As Vemumamy said, it is something everyone SHOULD do. It is one thing for a person to be responsible for their care if they have the ability to do so. It is another thing entirely when it is not only their assets but the other person's too that come up for grabs.

So, not a scam. Just some astute people making the right decisions for them. Btw - just in case anyone is reading this who is a 'joint' owner of a property but their spouse no longer has the capacity to make decisions. The changing of the ownership to tenants in common does not need the agreement of both parties. The person who is well can do this on their own. Then subsequently change their will to reflect this change.

Fiona

 

[Miss Merlot]

My husband has had his parents' property in trust to him in their will, drawn up long before MIL had dementia. He doesn't live in the home.

FIL died some years ago so it is now technically part his, meaning that (I think) the LA cannot force sale of the house without his say, and it has no purpose anyway as the value of half a house is nothing. Not sure how much they will eventually be able to claw back when she dies though - they could presumably claim up to half the value of the subsequent house sale then.

To get round this, my husband tied up the other half in a secondary trust (he is a Financial Advisor with specialist qualifications in Elder Care planning, so knew what he was doing here - recommend you seek out someone similar, either FA or solicitor, to make sure you do it the right way). This was only done a couple of years ago, so it could be overridden by the LA in the event that MIL goes into care in a close timeframe to this, as then it could be perceived as deprivation of assets (which essentially it is), but if she stays out for another few years then they might not be able to claim this - though if I understand correctly (and I may well not) there is no "line in the sand" for this. I think the more complicated the financial arrangements, the less likely the LA will be to challenge it, particularly when the trustee is a FA of thirty years who could argue his case better than they could in court!

I think the general rule of thumb is the sooner the better, so you have more of a leg to stand on when it comes to dealing with the LA later down the line...

 

[Raggedrobin]

Well too late to try anything with Mum, as she has not only lost capacity but is also 96, so she can't sign anything over to me now. I remember when Dad went into a home, though, that the solicitor told her to change their wills to tenants in common, but later she changed it after his death to being all hers, which is a shame really, she could have made me a new tenant in common but there we are, bang goes the inheritance perhaps in ch fees. C'est la vie.

 

[nitram]

"... that the solicitor told her to change their wills to tenants in common, but later she changed it after his death to being all hers, which is a shame really, she could have made me a new tenant in common..."

It's the property ownership that is tenants in common.

The idea is that in this case when your Dad died his will would have left his share to somebody other than his wife - you?.

Except in exceptional circumstances your Mum cannot alter this.

Did the solicitor not arrange for wills to be made to make use of the tenant in common ownership?

Have you checked with the >>>LAND REGISTRY<<< who currently owns the property?

 

[FifiMo]

It is the ownership of the house that needs to be changed to ‘tenants in common’ via the Land Registry before anyone writes a will, or changes an existing will.

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/guides/public-guide-18

Fiona

 

[Saffie]

I remember when Dad went into a home, though, that the solicitor told her to change their wills to tenants in common, but later she changed it after his death to being all hers,

I think you've still got hold of the wrong end of the stick RR.
You can't change a Will to tenants-in -common.
You make a new Will after you have changed the joint-ownership to tenants-in-common. Then each tenant can leave their half (or whatever other percentage might be involved) to someone else, such as a son or daughter etc.

Your mother wouldn't have needed to change your father's Will or her's, after his death because the house would automatically have become her's.

 

[Raggedrobin]

Yes sorry you are all right, I was looking through the papers. my Mum changed the land registry thing to be tenants in common, but then changed it again later after my father was dead to her being the sole registered owner. But I think she did this on advice of a solicitor which is kind of what I meant about the solicitor being involved.

 

[nitram]

Who did your father leave his share to in his will?

If it was other than your mother she could not have unilaterally changed the ownership to sole.

 

[sue38]

As nitram says if your father left his share of the property to your mother in his will (or if he didn't leave a will it passed to her under the rules of intestacy) then your mother will now be the sole legal and beneficial owner.

If however his will left his share to someone else then your mother may be the sole legal owner of the property, but she will hold the beneficial interest on trust for herself and the beneficiary under your dad's will. If the property is registered at the land registry is there a restriction on the register preventing a disposition by a sole proprietor? If there is, and your father's will left his share of the property to someone other than your mother, that would indicate that she isn't the sole legal and beneficial owner.

You would need to seek professional legal advice to clarify the position.

 

[Raggedrobin]

Thanks but I think he left his share to mum.