Registering an Enduring Power of Attorney

[ElaineMaul]

Hi,
I've just downloaded the pack about this from the Office of Public Guardianship ...... and I'm reading my way through it....

However, I've just found the section which talks about sending off the original EPA forms and I have a query which I'm sure someone here will know straight away.

I don't feel comfortable sending off the original documents. Even with registered/recorded delivery, they could still go astray and then we'd really be in trouble! Is the way round this to get a certified copy made by a solicitor? Would this be right?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Elaine

 

[jenniferpa]

Um - I think you have to send the original. However, I would ensure that you have a certified copy in case the originals go astray. I vaguely remember that they have a procedure that needs to be followed in the event that the original isn't available, but I'm sure it would be more time consuming and possibly more expensive.

I found this on the guardianship site

"What if the original LPA is missing?
We will not usually accept an application to register without the original LPA form. However, we may consider registering a ‘certified copy’. This means a copy that is signed on every page (including part A) to show that it is a true copy and has not been tampered with in any way. Usually, solicitors sign certified copies.
Unless the Donor has gone to the trouble of certifying a copy (which would be unusual), it will normally be possible for a solicitor to certify a copy if his or her firm prepared the LPA. For this reason, every effort should be made to locate the original LPA.
You will also need to send a sworn written statement explaining how the original was lost, and how and when the certified copy was made."

I've just realised this is referring to an LPA. I'll have another look.

O.K. I found this

"What if the original Enduring Power of Attorney has been lost?
If the original EPA is lost a certified copy can be registered. Office copies of a registered EPA can be obtained from the OPG for a fee."

The implication is that you may register a certified copy only if the original has been lost. I think I'd call their help line to be honest.

 

[jenniferpa]

Also have a look at this thread http://alzheimers.org.uk/talkingpoint/discuss/showthread.php?t=8083, particularly Clive's post where he says "Make sure you have a Certified Copy of the EPA in case the Court of Protection loses the original. They insist on seeing the original."

 

[ElaineMaul]

Dear Jennifer,
Thank you so much for going to so much trouble to find that information.

I should have found it myself ..... but was beginning to get tired last night

Either that, or I was still in shock at finding the document that says it costs £120 to register the thing!

Nice work if you can get it, eh?

And I've just noticed the bit that says you aught to tell the person covered by the EPA that you are going to apply for it ...... although you can get exemption if a doctor thinks that would cause too much distress! Oh boy!

Thanks again,
Elaine

 

[Clive]

You have to send the original Power of Attorney. Make sure you have at least one Certified copy to keep at home in case something goes wrong.

You should be aware that the Royal Mail “Recorded Deliver” service does nothing more than send your document through the ordinary post and then requests the Post Man at the other end to get a signature for the package when he delivers it. It is not secure, and if the envelope goes missing there is no way of finding it. The Royal Mail “Special Delivery” is much more secure and tracks the envelope through the postal system… but costs more.

I told mum I was going to register the Power of Attorney whilst we were having tea with one of her Carers present (as a witness). I did not make a big song and dance about it. I just included it with all the other things I was doing for her. I though the most important thing was not to cause unnecessary upset.

Clive

 

[BeckyJan]

Elaine:

I found by telephoning and emailing the OPG I had much help. At the time of sending off the original and cheque I asked for two extra copies of the registered EPA, these being free of charge.

It took exactly one month in all to receive the registered EPA.

Good luck Jan

 

[Brucie]

Don't forget that, as well as notifying the person involved, relatives must also be informed in writing of the impending registration and the date this happens needs to be noted.

 

[seaside]

More EPA queries

I am just working through these forms re Mum in law.

I can't understand from the public guardian website whether we have to pay deputy supervision fees, and if so, whether it is type 1, 2 or 3. Does anyone know?

Also, I think she may be entitled to a reduced fee based on income but how do I prove her income - which the form seems to suggest is necessary? (she doesn't get any benefits that I can tell other than normal pension.) Is it worth trying to reduce the fee (which I think if paid in full is £120) or is this just going to cause delay and more hassle?

And also, I am probably being stupid here, but where does it say about sending the EPA? We don't have this, only a letter the solicitor sent the in laws when they set the thing up in the first place. (and also Husband and his sister remember signing the document)

Any help gratefully received!

 

[jenniferpa]

1) Deputy supervision fees - these are ONLY payable when the court has had to appoint a deputy because there is no valid EPA/LPA, so no, in your case you would not need to pay this.

2) Fee remission. The details are here http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/about/exemptions-remissions.htm

The portion relevant to you is this

If you do not qualify for a fee exemption, you may be eligible for a fee remission if your gross annual income* is within the bands shown below. Income Remission:
Up to £11,500 no fee to pay
£11,501 to £13,000 75% remission - you need to enclose 25% of fee
£13,001 to £14,500 50% remission - you need to enclose 50% of fee
£14,501 to £16,000 25% remission - you need to enclose 75% of fee
Over £16,000 - You are not entitled to a fee remission.

To prove this you need to fill out the relevant form and provide "a photocopy of a recent payslip, pension entitlement slip, tax return or interest statement."

I do not know if it will make the whole thing slower - I suspect not substantially, since they start the process and decide whether more money has to be paid.

The biggest issue is finding the original EPA. My mother's solicitor gave us the original, but some solicitors will keep it (like they keep house deeds). You really really need this before you need to start worrying about what fees are to be paid. I will warn you, many solicitors will offer to do this filing for you - I would suggest that while heavy in the paper department, this is well within the capabilities of most people who have adequate time. If you do choose to let the solicitor do the filing, make sure you know how much their fee will be before agreeing. On the whole, if they have the EPA (and I hope for your sake they do) they may be more likely to push to do the registrations (call me cynical).

 

[seaside]

Thanks Jennifer,

I will ring the solicitor today (if they are open) and ask for the EPA, which a letter I have found now says they have for safe-keeping.

I've filled out the forms so it's just telling mum in law now... I've been interested to see how other people have dealt with that.

 

[myheadisinaspin]

hi we are going to be shortly seeking EPOA for my mum who is in total agreement, i've a novice to all this and its all totally baffled me, any help on how to begin, where to go, what to do etc. thanksx

 

[jenniferpa]

Myheadinaspin:

I assume nothing has been drawn up? So you're talking about drawing up an LPA? (Lasting Power of Attorney that supecedes the old Enduring Power of Attorney (EPA) ) And your mother is still competent enough to do this?

Sorry for all the questions.

 

[ElaineMaul]

Elaine:

I found by telephoning and emailing the OPG I had much help. At the time of sending off the original and cheque I asked for two extra copies of the registered EPA, these being free of charge.

It took exactly one month in all to receive the registered EPA.

Good luck Jan

Hi Jan (and everyone else who has so kindly given advice),

Can I infer from what you've written that I can get the OPG themselves to create extra copies of the EPA? Mind you, perhaps I'm having a DOH moment ....... these are extra copies of the RESULTING document FROM the OPG I can use to prove that I and my brother are acting on Dad'd behalf rather than copies of the original EPA?

I think the answer is 'yes' to that! Too much Christmas food has slowed me down

I've been away over this past week so am aiming to visit a local solicitor next week to get some certified copies of the EPA ...... do you think one is enough, or should I get two to be on the safe side?

Thank you,
Elaine

 

[jenniferpa]

Just an opinion - I would say one (if you put it in a safe place) is enough to hold onto while the original is being processed.

 

[Clive]

Do check how much the Solicitor is going to charge for the certified copy as they can charge what they like. (Possible ring first to check).

Last time I needed another certified copy the local posh solicitor wanted £20, but the one in town that advertises “no win --- no fee” were happy to do a certified copy of our EPA free of charge.

 

[Margaret W]

Hi Seaside,

I don't think you have to inform the person at all. In fact, it is your duty to register the EPA as soon as you think the donor is becoming incapable of managing their own affairs. It might be the case that you have to inform other interested parties, e.g. children, but that is all.

Re copies of the EPA, it is sensible to get one certified by a solicitor before you send off the original, and perhaps get a couple of copies afterwards of the approved EPA. I can't advise on cost, as I have a friendly solicitor who charges nothing for such things and would probably only charge a couple of quid to anyone else. All it needs is a stamp and a few words and a signature. Hardly worth £20, but if it has to be, then it has to be.

How many copies you need depends on the complexity of the person's finances. I only ever needed one, for the bank. The DWP didn't care about it. When the person dies it is defunct anyway.

Hope this helps.

Margaret

 

[BeckyJan]

don't think you have to inform the person at all.

Before I sent off the EPA I gave my lovely husband a copy of what I was doing (in presence of friend) and also gave our daughters a copy. All completely unnecessary as they totally agreed with me - but I went through the legal process.

Then I sent off the original under secure post. (The solicitor had a copy anyway),

Then the original came back registered along with two extra copies. No problems at all. I think misunderstandings make this all too complicated. Total cost of all was £120.

Good luck Jan

 

[jenniferpa]

Oh yes you do (have to inform the person). It does not have to be terribly formal, but you do have to inform them so that they can. if still capable, object to the registration.

 

[fredsnail]

How do you get certified copies? We've got registered LPAs but only the one copy of each and have been worried about losing them.

Thanks

fs

 

[jenniferpa]

According to the public guardian website

"Where do I get extra copies of the registered LPA?

The OPG can supply office copies of the original LPA document and may charge a fee. Solicitors can also certify copies as being true copies of the original and they may also charge."

from http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/docs/LPA108_web_1007.pdf