Protection from family members and scammers

[InnerGeek]

I have financial POA for my dad (he won't contemplate the health one so I'm biding my time until a diagnosis prompts further discussion). This came about because I found he had lost thousands through multiple charity donations and large lump sum withdrawals that we believe went to his 'best mate'.

One of dad's invisible brothers has now contacted dad to ask to borrow some of dad's things. Dad has an extensive range of rather costly pieces. He's also become a compulsive gifter so of course said yes even though he couldn't even remember what exactly it was his brother wanted to borrow by the time the phone conversation ended.

He's coming up to collect them while I'm at work, before I have any chance of taking stock of what dad currently has. I've asked the invisible brother (who didn't know I knew of this request) to make me a list of whatever he takes. I feel I am obliged to do this as a minimum, to keep my dad's property safe, but am I overstepping things here? Or should I have gone further and insisted it wait until I could be there? I know that pre-dementia dad would be happy to lend his things out, but he'd be just as keen to get them back.

I think my main problem here is that I feel I need to do right by dad but don't really know how far the POA remit goes.

 

[marionq]

You are absolutely right. This is why I first joined TP. I discovered a distant nephew was scamming my husband who was convinced this man was going to do wonderful things and pay him back with interest.

Of course it never happened and I have since discovered that another distant relative had a "loan" too until stopped by her own parents from continuing on to other loans.

Take a firm stand against these people and keep tight control through online banking of what is happening. It is infuriating and deeply upsetting to know these people will abuse their trust but you can put a stop to it. I took the advice I was given to control the money and the scammers would fade away and that is what happened.

 

[Bod]

I feel it's best you know exactly what goes where.
Anything particularly valuable, either monetary or sentimental is removed, before it goes missing. Same goes for breakables.
Very difficult, I know, having been there.

Bod

 

[Beate]

Tough stance retired methinks. You should tell this person that you are financial attorney and that every request has to go through you as it's your legal duty to protect his assets. You will decide what and if he borrows anything. If he does, he will sign an inventory list which will also include a return date. This means he can only come while you're around and have had opportunity to take stock first. Should he fail to comply or you discover he has taken anything without asking you first, you will report him to the nearest police station for scamming a vulnerable adult with dementia.

 

[Chemmy]

I am continually amazed at how many toerags there are around when I read these stories on TP. I agree with the others, you should take control. Good luck.

 

[InnerGeek]

Ahh thanks so much for the reassurances, I will do all I can and insist on a written inventory.

It's scary isn't it Chemmy! This whole business has opened my eyes a lot.

 

[cragmaid]

Sorry you have had to have your eyes opened.....but....don't let anything go until you can make the list of things going out in front of you. Sounds harsh I know, but you have a legal responsibility to take care of your Father's assets and, if at anytime the LA becomes involved in Dad's care, there could be a question of Deprivation of Assets to be answered to say nothing of questions Dad might raise at any point about " where's my....????".
Ask your uncle to stand off until some more convenient time.

 

[CJinUSA]

I have financial POA for my dad (he won't contemplate the health one so I'm biding my time until a diagnosis prompts further discussion). This came about because I found he had lost thousands through multiple charity donations and large lump sum withdrawals that we believe went to his 'best mate'.

One of dad's invisible brothers has now contacted dad to ask to borrow some of dad's things. Dad has an extensive range of rather costly pieces. He's also become a compulsive gifter so of course said yes even though he couldn't even remember what exactly it was his brother wanted to borrow by the time the phone conversation ended.

He's coming up to collect them while I'm at work, before I have any chance of taking stock of what dad currently has. I've asked the invisible brother (who didn't know I knew of this request) to make me a list of whatever he takes. I feel I am obliged to do this as a minimum, to keep my dad's property safe, but am I overstepping things here? Or should I have gone further and insisted it wait until I could be there? I know that pre-dementia dad would be happy to lend his things out, but he'd be just as keen to get them back.

I think my main problem here is that I feel I need to do right by dad but don't really know how far the POA remit goes.

Hello. I don't know what the law says about POA and such things as "gifts," but as your father lacks decision-making ability, you need to be there when the brother shows up. Were it me, I'd call in sick, say I needed a vacation day, whatever, and I'd BE THERE when the brother shows up. I'd also have another person there to witness conversations and what is going out the door. I'd photograph everything being taken as it's being taken out. There needs to be a reckoning for your father's estate.

No one knows how long she or he will live. My mother ran through several thousands of dollars (USD) prior to her diagnosis, and then we ran through over 600,000 hiring care workers and taking care of her health expenses while she lived here in my home for 9 years. Taking care of a loved one with slight means is not easy and it requires vigilance over the goods and funds.

Please consider taking a day off, asking a friend of yours or your father's to be there with you, and watch what exactly goes out of the house while photographing its being taken. I would not take this lightly. I might even apprise my attorney about the brother and the request, so that a third party would know what was going on. That seems to me to be the obligation of a financial POA. IMHO

 

[Kevinl]

As you have a financial POA then it is your duty to protect his assets, that doesn't just mean his money anything of value is a financial asset. If someone takes anything of financial value as although it's not actually cash money it does have a cash value is my opinion so you're perfectly free to protect these too.
This is my opinion only and not legal advice please note.
Before it comes to this though it might be interesting to find out what has been asked.
As your dad can't remember it could be something as innocent as a wheelbarrow or a power tool, it could be some family photos he wants to scan for himself and has every intention of returning, before we all get the pitchforks out and get a lynch mob together let's bear in mind no one knows the facts.
I'd phone the brother and ask what he wants so you can find it and put it out in case your dad can't find it, see what he asks for, ,like I say it might be something innocent.
That said I'd insist you were there at the time, as CJ say get the time off work ask when he's coming to put it on "dad's calendar so he doesn't forget" then have a family member/friend turn up an hour before and take your dad out for a surprise pub lunch or trip to the garden centre so he simply isn't there at the appointed hour.
Try no to act like you're suspicious just concerned and trying to help.
K

 

[InnerGeek]

Thanks again. Taking the day off is not practical for me - I haven't worked a full week since dad went into hospital last October, as he has so many appointments and I also care for my partner and have to attend his appointments as well as needing a lot of medical treatment myself at the moment, and my office is at risk of redundancy so I need to be there as much as possible.

The brother is retired. I am not. I'm going to ask him to postpone his visit until the weekend. Whilst this is not exactly convenient for me, it's better than risking more time off work.

I know most of the content of the conversation that was had because I happened to be there when the brother phoned dad - neither have quiet voices! Didn't want to post more detail on here in case it was recognised, however.

 

[Kikki21]

Thank you for your post.
I am sure my mum has been giving quite a bit of money to some cousins of mine & she seems to be asking about a lot of these so called lottery give always etc so we are monitoring what comes in the post to her when we are there.

What worries me is one of her friend's children came to see her last year... These are grown up children. First the daughter showed up & then a few weeks later one of the sons & then the other son Facebook friend requested me & I was like I smell a rat here.
I didn't really understand at the time but my mum's dementia was starting to kick in as she was saying something about her will & that apparently I had asked her friend's daughter if she was in it! This was all nonsense but myself & my husband started to think that they might be sending opportunities to take advantageous & your post has reminded me just how bad people can get.
I hope you can get this situation sorted out.