Local authority funding in a care home

[yoy]

Once a self funding person reaches the threshold for a local authority financial assessment, does anyone know whether the local authority is obliged to take on the funding or could they turn round and refuse? I am feeling nervous about this as the social workers I've spoken to over the last few months re the possibilty of mum going into a home just seem to want to push me away and are not too forthcoming with information. So if mum went in and gave up her local authority rented bungalow could she be left with no-where to go once her money runs out??

 

[Helly68]

@yoy - there may be others responding who have more experience, but here's my take.
If you are self-funding (at least until funds are exhasuted) then social workers will leave it to you to find a care home placement.
My Mum went into a home that we paid for initially, and then the council paid for, with her making a contribution. In order for the council to start paying, they will do a financial assessment of all the assets the person has (or half of most joint assets). They will then let you know the result of this. They will also do a capacity assessment (i.e. how far advanced is the dementia). By the time we stopped paying and the council took over, Mummy was pretty far into mixed dementia so cold not really answer any of the social workers questions, but we all agreed a care home was the best place for her and that she should stay in what she then considered her home.
Not all councils work the same way or are prepared to bear the same costs.
We were lucky in that the council took on her costs and she was able to stay where she was. I recommend you contact your local Carers Centre for advice on this. Especially the issue of the bungalow. I think most members here wold agree with me i that giving up rented or other accomodation is often a necessity when dementia reaches a point that the person is no longer safe, and sometines does not recognise, their home.

 

[northumbrian_k]

Hi @yoy and welcome to Dementia Talking Point our supportive and friendly community. I am sure that you will get some helpful suggestions from members who have faced similar situations. My experience is slightly different but may be relevant.

My wife moved into her care home as a self-funder in May 2019. The home that I thought was best suited to her is less expensive than other more 'luxury' places. Importantly, this means that it accepts the Local Authority funding rate.

By the time that my wife's funds fell below the funding threshold the social workers involved did not seriously question her need to be in the home. In theory she still had somewhere else to live - our marital home - but this was not seen to be suitable given her need for 24 hour care . Hence the transition to Local Authority funding was straightforward.

My understanding is that the LA has a duty of care to your mum. If she self-funded a care home she would not need to continue renting a property. If the care home were more expensive and did not accept the LA rate that might require negotiation - or a move to somewhere that does - but she would not be made homeless.

 

[Bod]

My simple understanding.
Mother enters a Care Home which accepts LA. funding, as a self-funder, there should be no problems, if the LA has to take over funding her.
Mother enters a Care Home, which cost more than LA funding, then should she need LA funding, if the Home will accept LA funding and a 3rd party top-up (you pay, not mother) no move will be needed.
If the Home will not accept LA funding, (some don't) then a move to a Home that will accept LA funding, and one that the LA deem suitable, will have to be found.
In this case I would be looking at homes that accept LA funding from the outset.

Bod

 

[canary]

How long will your mum be able to self-fund for?
If its a couple of years then I dont see any problems apart from the fact that if she is in a home that wont accept the LA rates, then you would either have to pay top-up fees (I dont recommend hat you do) or she will have to move to a cheaper home.

However, if she would only be self-funded for a couple of months then this is an entirely different matter as SS could indeed turn round and say that she doesnt need to be in a care home and refuse to pay. I have heard of this happening to a member on these boards, but only once, so its rare but theoretically possible. In that case the SW wanted to move the members mum into a flat with carers four times a day. I seem to remember that it worked out badly and the lady eventually moved back into a care home.

Does your mum have carers going in at the moment? SS does not like to consider a care home until all other possibilities have been exhausted (so a care home becomes the "least restrictive" solution). For this reason they like to try carers coming in four times a day first. If this does not keep her safe from being a danger to herself or others, then that is the time that they would consider a care home

 

[yoy]

@yoy - there may be others responding who have more experience, but here's my take.
If you are self-funding (at least until funds are exhasuted) then social workers will leave it to you to find a care home placement.
My Mum went into a home that we paid for initially, and then the council paid for, with her making a contribution. In order for the council to start paying, they will do a financial assessment of all the assets the person has (or half of most joint assets). They will then let you know the result of this. They will also do a capacity assessment (i.e. how far advanced is the dementia). By the time we stopped paying and the council took over, Mummy was pretty far into mixed dementia so cold not really answer any of the social workers questions, but we all agreed a care home was the best place for her and that she should stay in what she then considered her home.
Not all councils work the same way or are prepared to bear the same costs.
We were lucky in that the council took on her costs and she was able to stay where she was. I recommend you contact your local Carers Centre for advice on this. Especially the issue of the bungalow. I think most members here wold agree with me i that giving up rented or other accomodation is often a necessity when dementia reaches a point that the person is no longer safe, and sometines does not recognise, their home.

Thank you for that.

 

[yoy]

Hi @yoy and welcome to Dementia Talking Point our supportive and friendly community. I am sure that you will get some helpful suggestions from members who have faced similar situations. My experience is slightly different but may be relevant.

My wife moved into her care home as a self-funder in May 2019. The home that I thought was best suited to her is less expensive than other more 'luxury' places. Importantly, this means that it accepts the Local Authority funding rate.

By the time that my wife's funds fell below the funding threshold the social workers involved did not seriously question her need to be in the home. In theory she still had somewhere else to live - our marital home - but this was not seen to be suitable given her need for 24 hour care . Hence the transition to Local Authority funding was straightforward.

My understanding is that the LA has a duty of care to your mum. If she self-funded a care home she would not need to continue renting a property. If the care home were more expensive and did not accept the LA rate that might require negotiation - or a move to somewhere that does - but she would not be made homeless.

Thank you.

 

[yoy]

My simple understanding.
Mother enters a Care Home which accepts LA. funding, as a self-funder, there should be no problems, if the LA has to take over funding her.
Mother enters a Care Home, which cost more than LA funding, then should she need LA funding, if the Home will accept LA funding and a 3rd party top-up (you pay, not mother) no move will be needed.
If the Home will not accept LA funding, (some don't) then a move to a Home that will accept LA funding, and one that the LA deem suitable, will have to be found.
In this case I would be looking at homes that accept LA funding from the outset.

Bod

Thank you. Yes I have thought to go straight for one which will accept LA funding.

 

[yoy]

How long will your mum be able to self-fund for?
If its a couple of years then I dont see any problems apart from the fact that if she is in a home that wont accept the LA rates, then you would either have to pay top-up fees (I dont recommend hat you do) or she will have to move to a cheaper home.

However, if she would only be self-funded for a couple of months then this is an entirely different matter as SS could indeed turn round and say that she doesnt need to be in a care home and refuse to pay. I have heard of this happening to a member on these boards, but only once, so its rare but theoretically possible. In that case the SW wanted to move the members mum into a flat with carers four times a day. I seem to remember that it worked out badly and the lady eventually moved back into a care home.

Does your mum have carers going in at the moment? SS does not like to consider a care home until all other possibilities have been exhausted (so a care home becomes the "least restrictive" solution). For this reason they like to try carers coming in four times a day first. If this does not keep her safe from being a danger to herself or others, then that is the time that they would consider a care home

Thank you. Yes she currently has 3 carers a day. But is now in hospital waiting for a fourth call to be set up before being discharged.

 

[canary]

Thank you. Yes she currently has 3 carers a day. But is now in hospital waiting for a fourth call to be set up before being discharged.

Gosh, thats very close to the maximum.
I dont know why shes in hospital, but its often easier to get them moved to a care home from hospital. Could you argue that she would not be safe going home, even with an extra carer slot a day?

 

[yoy]

Gosh, thats very close to the maximum.
I dont know why shes in hospital, but its often easier to get them moved to a care home from hospital. Could you argue that she would not be safe going home, even with an extra carer slot a day?

Thanks, I'll consider that, but I'm already under the impression that they won't consider it till 4 a day proves not to be working. So I'll have to see how things go.