Mum had to be sectioned at A&E following myself ringing ambulance because of aggressive behaviour and acting very oddly. Only then did the family find out she had a diagnosis of dementia five years ago and she withheld it from us. Obviously we new she had memory problems but recently been paranoid and verbally aggressive to dad and myself. Unfortunately dad has had enough and has said he does not want her back home - I think things have been very bad at home and he has not mentioned anything. Apparently she has not been eating and he did not tell anyone, she has not been cleaning or showering etc. I visit o?.nce of twice a week and noticed the memory and house not being as clean as usual but she always had a chat and made a cup of tea so it has been something of a shock. The hospital now done a DOLS because she will be a danger to self and others and there is a best interests meeting next week. I don't know what to do about dad as he refuses to have her back (that's another issue again for me to deal with i.e. a father who is so disloyal to mum after 57 years). Does anyone know what social services will say? Do I need legal advice etc. She has told me she wants a flat and not a care home (in the moments when she has flashes of insight). I think her dementia has suddenly got worse because she was not like this a month ago. Any advice would be appreciated.
Just found out mum had diagnosis of dementia 5 years ago after sectioning
- Thread starter Karenjane
- Start date
Hello @Karenjane and welcome to Talking Point
That must have come as a shock discovering that your mum had been diagnosed with dementia so long ago. Did not even your dad know?
So many people of that generation feel that they mustnt say anything to anyone and suffer in silence. You said that she seemed OK when you visited, but you probably wont know about the phenomenon known as being in Hostess Mode, or Showtiming - this is where the person with dementia is able to supress their dementia symptoms for short periods when social occasions demand (like having people visit, or when faced with medical staff) and appear much, much more able than they really are.
I suspect that it has been even worse for your dad than he has been letting on and aggression is very hard to cope with. TBH, I am not surprised that he has got to the end of his tether and doesnt want her back home. This is not being disloyal, it is being realistic. If she is already being verbally aggressive this can easily spiral into physical aggression (if it hasnt already) and she may cause him serious damage.
That must have come as a shock discovering that your mum had been diagnosed with dementia so long ago. Did not even your dad know?
So many people of that generation feel that they mustnt say anything to anyone and suffer in silence. You said that she seemed OK when you visited, but you probably wont know about the phenomenon known as being in Hostess Mode, or Showtiming - this is where the person with dementia is able to supress their dementia symptoms for short periods when social occasions demand (like having people visit, or when faced with medical staff) and appear much, much more able than they really are.
I suspect that it has been even worse for your dad than he has been letting on and aggression is very hard to cope with. TBH, I am not surprised that he has got to the end of his tether and doesnt want her back home. This is not being disloyal, it is being realistic. If she is already being verbally aggressive this can easily spiral into physical aggression (if it hasnt already) and she may cause him serious damage.
Hi @Karenjane
I agree with what @canary has said.
If your father can't cope with caring for or looking after your mum, then he can't cope. No point in trying to make him cope, as you'll end up with two patients. He doesn't have to be the carer. That doesn't mean he doesn't love your mum.
Its not a question of loyalty or otherwise, its a question of who and where the most appropriate care for your mum can be provided ,
Before the period of the sectioning ending the hospital will have to have a care plan for your mum based on their assessment of what is required in the best interests meeting. If your father can't cope then your mother will be better off where someone can cope with her and keep her safe, comfortable and looked after, which may well be a care home experienced in dealing with the behaviour exhibited by your mum. Full time care takes full time. There is no question of your mother going into a flat or living on her own if she is adjudged not to be able to look after herself or is or may be a danger to herself or others (like leaving on the gas unlit, etc)
Yes you can be at the best interests meeting, and so should your dad as he can state what has actually been happening with your mum, and he can say if he doesn't want to or can't cope with providing care. He will also know about your mum's finance position. As you weren't aware of the diagnosis of dementia, you may also not be fully aware of what's been going on between your mum and your dad. If you ask the other professionals at the best interests meeting to explain this to you clearly, then, in my humble opinion, you don't need legal representation.
Just my thoughts.
Best wishes.
I agree with what @canary has said.
If your father can't cope with caring for or looking after your mum, then he can't cope. No point in trying to make him cope, as you'll end up with two patients. He doesn't have to be the carer. That doesn't mean he doesn't love your mum.
Its not a question of loyalty or otherwise, its a question of who and where the most appropriate care for your mum can be provided ,
Before the period of the sectioning ending the hospital will have to have a care plan for your mum based on their assessment of what is required in the best interests meeting. If your father can't cope then your mother will be better off where someone can cope with her and keep her safe, comfortable and looked after, which may well be a care home experienced in dealing with the behaviour exhibited by your mum. Full time care takes full time. There is no question of your mother going into a flat or living on her own if she is adjudged not to be able to look after herself or is or may be a danger to herself or others (like leaving on the gas unlit, etc)
Yes you can be at the best interests meeting, and so should your dad as he can state what has actually been happening with your mum, and he can say if he doesn't want to or can't cope with providing care. He will also know about your mum's finance position. As you weren't aware of the diagnosis of dementia, you may also not be fully aware of what's been going on between your mum and your dad. If you ask the other professionals at the best interests meeting to explain this to you clearly, then, in my humble opinion, you don't need legal representation.
Just my thoughts.
Best wishes.
Hi @Karenjane, it must be an awful shock for you and I do sympathise. As someone who has recently had a parent go into a nursing home and the other parent no longer able to care for them, please can I ask that you consider your Dad's side of things too. My Mum was brought to her knees both mentally and physically caring for my Dad and, whilst still loving him dearly, had to eventually concede to professional advice that full time EMI nursing care was necessary. She was living on adrenaline and fear, totally exhausted and hopeless, just unable to be 'everything' 24 hours a day and dreading the next episode of aggression, as well as doing everything for the house and finances, dealing with external agencies and only an averge of 5 hours sleep a night at age 80+. And I didn't know the half of it, because she didn't tell me just how bad things were. Believe me when I say that your Dad is very possibly just at the end of what any single human can endure when caring for someone with this awful disease. If you feel your Mum has deteriorated suddenly, could it be that she has vascular or mixed dementia? I have heard that vascular can cause sudden 'steps' of deterioration. Has she been checked out physically by her GP? Urine infections for example, can have devastating effects even though no symptoms may be obvious. Hopefully others have been able to help with the advice about social services etc. Hugs to you x
Hi @Karenjane and welcome.
I am sorry to hear of your situation - it must have been such a shock to find out that your mother was diagnosed with dementia five years ago and you've only just been told. It is a lot to process.
I know how devastating it can be when a loved one is sectioned, it happened to my late husband twice during his illness so I know how emotionally shattering it is for everyone involved.
To reach the point of being sectioned things would have become very bad. As you say, your mum is deemed to be a danger to herself or others. I was broken when those words were used to describe my own husband.
But sadly, that can be the nature of the disease. I'm afraid to say that unless you are living with the situation 24/7 it is very hard to appreciate the actual toll caring for someone with dementia can take on the person doing the caring.
After my husband was sectioned the first time we did manage to have him back home for another two years. But here's the thing, I was healthy, in my mid-fifties and had my adult son and daughter still living with us. But despite that, caring for my husband at home brought me to the verge of carer breakdown in the end.
Don't get me wrong - I am delighted we got those extra two years together as a family. I would do it all again - we had some fantastic times alongside the bad. However, had I been older - say in my 70s, 80s or 90s (like so many carers on Dementia Talking Point) I simply would not have been able to do it - especially the physical side of caring.
Please try not to think of your father as being disloyal. There is a huge amount of guilt to overcome when a carer finally reaches the point of admitting they can no longer cope.
You mention of your dad -
I think you are right - and he probably saw that as his way of being loyal to your mum - by respecting her privacy, not wanting to worry the family - but instead, trying to cope alone.
I wish you and the family well for the 'best interests' meeting. I know you must feel like you are playing a game of catch up at the moment, having only just learnt of your mum's diagnosis - but they truly will have your mum's best interests at heart.
I am sorry to hear of your situation - it must have been such a shock to find out that your mother was diagnosed with dementia five years ago and you've only just been told. It is a lot to process.
I know how devastating it can be when a loved one is sectioned, it happened to my late husband twice during his illness so I know how emotionally shattering it is for everyone involved.
To reach the point of being sectioned things would have become very bad. As you say, your mum is deemed to be a danger to herself or others. I was broken when those words were used to describe my own husband.
But sadly, that can be the nature of the disease. I'm afraid to say that unless you are living with the situation 24/7 it is very hard to appreciate the actual toll caring for someone with dementia can take on the person doing the caring.
After my husband was sectioned the first time we did manage to have him back home for another two years. But here's the thing, I was healthy, in my mid-fifties and had my adult son and daughter still living with us. But despite that, caring for my husband at home brought me to the verge of carer breakdown in the end.
Don't get me wrong - I am delighted we got those extra two years together as a family. I would do it all again - we had some fantastic times alongside the bad. However, had I been older - say in my 70s, 80s or 90s (like so many carers on Dementia Talking Point) I simply would not have been able to do it - especially the physical side of caring.
Please try not to think of your father as being disloyal. There is a huge amount of guilt to overcome when a carer finally reaches the point of admitting they can no longer cope.
You mention of your dad -
I think you are right - and he probably saw that as his way of being loyal to your mum - by respecting her privacy, not wanting to worry the family - but instead, trying to cope alone.
I wish you and the family well for the 'best interests' meeting. I know you must feel like you are playing a game of catch up at the moment, having only just learnt of your mum's diagnosis - but they truly will have your mum's best interests at heart.
Please don’t feel your Dad is being disloyal as he’s clearly reached breaking point. There’s only so much people can cope with and caring for someone with dementia 24/7 would definitely push me over the edge.
I think with some of the behavioural problems with dementia people become impossible to manage. If your Mum is being aggressive then your Dad is also at risk. The biggest favour you could do for your Dad at the best interests meeting is to support his wishes and not push him or allow him to be pushed into continuing with a situation he can’t or doesn’t want to manage.
I think with some of the behavioural problems with dementia people become impossible to manage. If your Mum is being aggressive then your Dad is also at risk. The biggest favour you could do for your Dad at the best interests meeting is to support his wishes and not push him or allow him to be pushed into continuing with a situation he can’t or doesn’t want to manage.
I’m going to agree with the others here. Your dad has probably reached the end of his tether and to have your mum back home could infact be a safeguarding issue for both of them. Legally he does not have to care for her so if he is saying he won’t have her back home and depending on her state of mental capacity , social services will make a decision on where would be best for her to live. There might not be much choice to be honest as behaviour and aggression are things that many care homes can not manage. Being sectioned means that the mental health team can assess her and see if any medical needs can be addressed and if any medication will help her. The other thing to consider as a family is that dementia does not get better, your mum will become less and less able to manage and therefore so will your dad.
You’ve all had a big shock, even your dad who may have known but nothing prepares you for when someone is sectioned. It’s going to be a bit of a waiting game while she is assessed so let the professionals do their job and take one step at a time.
You’ve all had a big shock, even your dad who may have known but nothing prepares you for when someone is sectioned. It’s going to be a bit of a waiting game while she is assessed so let the professionals do their job and take one step at a time.
Thank you so much for your replies. I was very interested to know about showtiming and I now know that this has been happening. It would be nice if the medical staff could explain these things to me to and I wouldn’t feel so adrift. With regard to dad I am being harsh I know and he is a very quiet man. Unfortunately as well as refusing to have her home, he has also refused to visit or speak to her on the phone and I appreciate he might need time. However he also will not attend the best interest meeting, will not meet with the social worker and just says “you sort it out”. I don’t know what the social worker will think of this. Fortunately I do know my mum’s finances (they are completely separate to dads). . I’m thinking of asking the independent mental capacity advocate to see mum because I’m worried about making any decisions alone and think maybe they may support me. As we.l as her. I will let you know what happens .
I am so sorry to hear about your dad @Karenjane . It sounds to me as though he is completely broken. Caring can do that to you. I reached carer breakdown myself about two and a half years ago. I could not bear to set foot in my house for 4 days, so stayed in a cheap hotel and OH had to go into respite in a care home. I was completely empty and hollowed out from caring and simply could do nothing anymore. I too said to my children - I cant do it, please sort it out for me. And bless them, they did. I just wanted to sleep and not think about anything. It was a good couple of weeks before I could focus enough to visit OH.
Do you know when the Best Interest meeting is? There is usually several weeks so that they can assess someone properly and stabilise them on medication. Unless the meeting is very soon it may be that your dad will have recovered enough to be able to go to it.
Do you know when the Best Interest meeting is? There is usually several weeks so that they can assess someone properly and stabilise them on medication. Unless the meeting is very soon it may be that your dad will have recovered enough to be able to go to it.
I think that your Dad has reached carer breakdown. It seems clear that there’s a lot that you don’t know about your mum’s dementia and how things have been for your dad. I think that your Dad needs time and space to recover. He’s probably worried - reasonably - that he’s going to be put under pressure by other people (including you, judging by what you have said about him being disloyal) to take her back. You need to support him in pushing for a placement in a care home. It’s just not fair to expect him to do any more if he’s reached his limit. You could end up losing your dad before your mum. Carers have a 30% higher mortality rate than non-carers and this forum has many threads in which a poster mentions having to step in and take responsibility for a parent with dementia after the other parent has died suddenly or after a short illness or had a heart attack or stroke.
I think any social worker with any common sense will see that your Dad is at breaking point. The fact he doesn’t want to talk to anyone says it all. I’d be encouraging him to do some nice things for himself and get some semblance of his life back. As @Violet Jane points out he’s probably absolutely terrified that he’ll be allowed some respite and then coerced into carrying on. Denentia isn’t like any other illness and will only get worse. Carers definitely have a higher mortality rate than non carers and I’d imagine a higher suicide rate too.
Hi @Karenjane. You said: " I’m thinking of asking the independent mental capacity advocate to see mum because I’m worried about making any decisions alone and think maybe they may support me. "
Obviously your choice whether to have an advocate to talk to your mum.
However, if your mum has had dementia for 5 years, and has been sectioned, I would think it highly unlikely that she would have the capacity to rationally decide was is best for herself. Thus, it is likely that the Adult Social Services, based on what the medics say about her current state, will make the decision on her future. Yes, they'll listen to you too, but without an LPA for Health & Welfare or a Deputyship it's likely to be their decision.
Obviously your choice whether to have an advocate to talk to your mum.
However, if your mum has had dementia for 5 years, and has been sectioned, I would think it highly unlikely that she would have the capacity to rationally decide was is best for herself. Thus, it is likely that the Adult Social Services, based on what the medics say about her current state, will make the decision on her future. Yes, they'll listen to you too, but without an LPA for Health & Welfare or a Deputyship it's likely to be their decision.
