Being denied knowledge of care homes for discharge CHC funding

[Tennisballs]

Hello,
My Dad was sectioned under section 3 and had a 117 meeting and is now granted full CHC funding. He was admitted in April and is due to be discharged.
My mum struggles with her mental health and had instructed the hospital as NOK ( no LPA health) to not inform me of where he will be discharged to. I was able to attend the 117 meeting in his best interest when she was in better health.
I need help, he’s my Dad and I want to be part of his care plan. I’m allowed zoom calls and basic information as in he’s eaten, he’s walking around and taken his medication.
it’s so cruel and I’m at a loss of what to do. I’ve written, I’ve called , I’ve had meetings and it’s the same answer as she’s NOK she basically calls the shots.
Please help me.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @Tennisballs
did you mention in a previous post that you are Attorney for finances ... in which case you need to know care home details to be able to manage his finances appropriately

as you are currently having zoom calls, hopefully that will continue after the move so you will have contact ... with Covid restrictions that's often all the contact available to family members, so maybe accept that and hope the situation changes over time

 

[Tennisballs]

Yes, have LPA finance along with his wife. He is fully CHC funded so why would they need me to be involved? His wife will not pay a penny towards top up care and will put him in any home so as not to do this. The CHC team know I have LPA finance and yet they will still not involve me at NOK request.
I vowed never to give up, I’m feel beaten.

 

[Tennisballs]

My main issue is I want to know what homes are being considered, so that I can see if they are suitable. His wife has never read a inspectorate report and has absolutely no interest in doing so.

 

[Starting on a journey]

Just a thought.....the bank or any savings accounts he may have will want to know his address. Also any pension providers or the attendance allowance unit will want to know his change of address. You will need this information to fulfil poa ?

 

[MartinWL]

I agree with others. As an attorney you have every right to be involved and to make decisions. If he is to buy a newspaper that is your decision! A health authority can't deny you access to him. I would start with s letter to the Chief Executive of the relevant NHS Trust, enclosing a certified copy of the LPA, asking him or her to ensure your legal rights and duties are not obstructed.

You may need to get legal advice at some point but for now, complain strongly, and clearly.

 

[Grancan1313]

Hi I’m in a similar situation with my step mum. The ccg who arrange the CHC funding did give me information about assessments etc after I emailed my LPA to them and they logged on file. He was already in a home and he actually doesn’t qualify for CHC but they were willing to deal with me. Hope that helps

 

[Jessbow]

Yes, have LPA finance along with his wife. He is fully CHC funded so why would they need me to be involved? His wife will not pay a penny towards top up care and will put him in any home so as not to do this. The CHC team know I have LPA finance and yet they will still not involve me at NOK request.
I vowed never to give up, I’m feel beaten.

Is ''his wife'' you mother? as his wife is IS his NOK, and to an extent they ( sadly) have a point. They cannot take instructions from more than one person if those two people are not on the same page ( And it doesnt sound as though you are)

His wife is not allowed to pay ''top up''- you are not supposed to pay top up for someone who is CHC funded.
She may not have choices are to where he goes- not all homes accept CHC funded residents, so she could read every report going, and still not be able to place him there.

It sounds tough- very tough for you especially- but whilst you have LPA for finance and his finances dont come into the situation, I can see why they are not including you.
Organisations and such will rarely put themselves between waring family members

You sayshe doesnt have the best mental health- is that because she doesnt see your point of view, or is she actually diagnosed with a condition? What is your relationship like with her normally

Sending a ((hug))- its a very difficult time

 

[Louise7]

Hello @Tennisballs In your initial post you refer to a Section 117 meeting and say that your Dad has been granted 'full CHC funding' but I'm wondering if it is actually Section 117 aftercare funding? This is awarded to those who have been subject to a Section 3 and, like CHC, is also funded by the CCG. If it is Section 117 aftercare then your Dad's care plan would have been produced by the LA/CCG and placement would need to be in a home which met all of his needs, as per the care plan - the LA/CCG will be responsible for finding suitable accommodation, not your Dad's wife. The choice of available homes can be quite limited due to the need for mental health related aftercare and it will be the LA/CCG that will have the final say in whether a home is suitable to meet your Dad's needs or not, not your Dad's wife.

A 'top up' can be paid in relation to section 117 aftercare but this will be for 'extras' that fall outside of the care plan requirements - there may not be suitable home available which charge 'top ups' for extras. Your Dad's health & care needs will be fully met in the home that the LA/CCG place him in, so don't worry about 'top ups' being necessary in order to meet your Dad's care needs (the same would apply if the placement was CHC funded). Here's a link explaining Section 117 aftercare which you may find helpful: https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-...ons/mental-health-laws/section-117-aftercare/

 

[MartinWL]

This is a complex situation but the fact remains that @Tennisballs is the financial LPA for her dad, along, I think, with his wife. As an attorney she has a duty to act in his interests and it is difficult to see how she could do that if she is denied all access to the patient. If two financial attorneys disagree the OPG can give advice but we don't know of any serious disagreement on finances. @Tennisballs can only demand the access needed to carry out her duties, which include paying for any care home extras, and, I think, checking that the supplier of any extras has provided the service expected.

There is a tricky divide here between health and money issues. Some decisions involve both. A trivial example might be a decision to buy sticking plasters for a bunion. It is a health matter but also a financial decision.