Are you traveling in this lockdown to visitto Care Home

[blueorchid]

Hi,
For those who live a considerable distance from the Care Home, are you visiting during this lockdown? I spoke to the local police online to ask whether travelling 75 miles is permitted. On the Gov.UK website it is currently saying that Care Home visits are permitted (but type of visit is down to the Care Home to decide).

Police said that the distance is problematic and they wouldn't/couldn't tell me whether I would be fined if I was stopped. They suggested getting a letter from the Care Home but said this may not be taken into consideration.

I'm also supposed to be checking weekly on my mothers empty house as stipulated by her home insurance. It's hard to know what is classed as essential. It's not life and death but the insurance will be void if a pipe bursts and I've not checked the house for 2 weeks. I was also going to ask the Insurance company for a letter too in case I was stopped.

My questions is, are you travelling a distance to visit your family member in a Care Home?

Thanks,
B.

 

[brambles]

Hi @blueorchid ,
I was in a similar dilemma at the beginning of this lockdown, although I don't live as far away as you.
After much deliberation I went once. The home assured me I was allowed, but I felt guilty about it.
As it happened the home had a covid outbreak shortly after and no more visiting has been allowed since, but I don't think I would have gone again anyway.
I am so glad I did go though now, as I haven't seen her since.
If I were you I would follow your instincts. What is essential to you? If you feel that for the mental wellbeing of yourself and your mum it is essential, or to fulfil the obligations of the insurance, then go.
I would be very surprised if you were challenged by the police or they would give you any more than advice in the unlikely event you would be stopped.

 

[MartinWL]

Hi,
For those who live a considerable distance from the Care Home, are you visiting during this lockdown? I spoke to the local police online to ask whether travelling 75 miles is permitted. On the Gov.UK website it is currently saying that Care Home visits are permitted (but type of visit is down to the Care Home to decide).

Police said that the distance is problematic and they wouldn't/couldn't tell me whether I would be fined if I was stopped. They suggested getting a letter from the Care Home but said this may not be taken into consideration.

I'm also supposed to be checking weekly on my mothers empty house as stipulated by her home insurance. It's hard to know what is classed as essential. It's not life and death but the insurance will be void if a pipe bursts and I've not checked the house for 2 weeks. I was also going to ask the Insurance company for a letter too in case I was stopped.

My questions is, are you travelling a distance to visit your family member in a Care Home?

Thanks,
B.

Sorry but what the police have told you is complete rubbish. I get very angry about this, it happens far too often that the police don't understand the law and try to make up rules.

There are no distance or travel restrictions at all in the current regulations. The restrictions are these:
1) You cannot leave home without a reasonable excuse. There is a list of reasonable excuses in the regulations that are considered reasonable, although there could be others. Visiting a close relative in hospital or a care home is one such reasonable excuse.
2) The trip must be"reasonably necessary", which isn't defined but it doesn't mean essential. It means not going out for some trivial reason but I doubt that anyone would argue that it was unnecessary for a person in a care home to be visited by family.

There is nothing at all in the regulations about distance and it matters not a jot whether the care home is 75 yards or 750 miles away, that just isn't in the regulations at all. The guidance suggests staying local but is not law and you don't have to follow guidance. By the way the person you are visiting does have to be a close family member or a friend, I assume this is the case.

There is a bit of an anomaly in that it is only the visitor who has the reasonable excuse. If for example a friend or relative went with you as driver and wasn't visiting the care home resident him/herself, that person would be in a legal grey area.

Secondly, another "reasonable excuse" listed in the regulations is "care or assistance to a vulnerable person". Anyone over 70 is a vulnerable person. Checking her house for her when she is unable to do so herself is surely giving her assistance. And given the insurance situation it must be "reasonably necessary".

If I were you I'd be making a formal complaint about the advice the police have given you, if you know the name of the officer concerned. They have no right to make up the law as they go along.

If you were challenged on your journey you would have the law on your side but avoid doing anything else, no sightseeing or socialising with anyone else. You would simply need to say that your reasonable excuse was visiting a care home resident, or assisting a vulnerable person. In the event of a fixed penalty notice being issued you could take it to court.

This makes me very angry, I feel sure that some elderly vulnerable people are being denied the care they should have from family because of misleading reports in the media and by police who should know better.

 

[Lynmax]

Check with the insurance company, they might have waived the weekly visit rule. I notified mums house insurance company that the house was empty in April and they said that during lockdown, weekly visits were not expected as long as someone local had access ie neighbours had a key.

Then in September the worst happened, there was a leak from a main water pipe in the loft which had poured through the landing ceiling and loft hatch, down the stairs and through the living room ceiling as well. As it happens, my sister had been round six days earlier getting the carpets cleaned so we knew the leak was less than six days old but the company did not ask us when we last visited. Neither were we held responsible for not turning off the mains water!

The house is still not fully repaired, some delays due to Covid but mainly the shoddy work done by the decorators and plasterer which has meant much of it having to be redone.

 

[Rosettastone57]

I agree with @MartinWL . There is a difference between law and guidance and that is causing confusion both with police and the public . Personally I would visit the care home and would visit the house to check on it. Common sense tells me that these are essential visits. I wouldn't bother either with letters "of authority to travel " , there's nothing in the legislation that says these are required . I'm about to move house 200 miles and will be driving myself after the removals team have left the whole way. My number plate will still say my old address until the dvla get round to changing it, but if I'm stopped by police I will explain the situation. If I get a fixed penalty notice I will contest it, but I'm not anticipating being stopped in the first place and I'm not going to carry a solicitor's letter saying I've moved. We're getting frightened of our own shadows.

 

[MartinWL]

Agreed @Rosettastone57 but there may be a value in being able to demonstrate that your "reasonable excuse" is true. Not required in law, of course, in fact there is nothing in the regulations requiring you to explain yourself to the police at all, but in practical terms it is better to avoid a court case if you can, even if you are confident of winning. I am a Registered Carer with a County Council and have a registration card that I always carry when I go to provide "care and assistance" to my father as permitted by the regulations. It might just stop a problem in its tracks and save a lot of hassle. Not that anyone has ever questioned me.

 

[nitram]

It's not the distance that I would be concerned about, it's the comparative infection rates.
I certainly would not travel from one of the S African infected areas to an area outside the infected zone.

 

[anxious annie]

I know moving house is classed as one of the exemptions to having to stay at home @Rosettastone57 so am sure you will be fine. Visiting a care home is also allowed under "compassionate exemptions" . I will be going to see mum for a closed window visit in the middle of February and although she lives over 100 miles away from me this is still OK as there is no limit on travel. I consider my visit essential for mum's mental well being, and to be honest I really don't know how many more visits she will be around for. I certainly don't want to wait until late Spring or Summer to see her again. I shall travel by car and not come into close contact with anyone. I doubt that I will be stopped by the police as am sure they have more important things to do . I won't take any paperwork to prove this but if I am stopped would hope that the police accept my explanation, or they could always phone the care home to check. I'm retired and only go outside for a daily walk and choose a quiet time to shop. Ive been in Lockdown since before Christmas so consider myself to be low risk, although I do accept that I could still get infected .

 

[blueorchid]

Thank you for all your replies. My In Laws live in the area I'm travelling to and have told me that the police are regularly stopping people and fining all occupants.
So I do think I will be stopped and need to be prepared. I also think it will depend entirely on who stops me as to whether I'll be fined or not.
I need to start clearing the house in advance of the house sale as well. So I have a number of reasons to travel.
However I really don't want to have to contest any fine as I have too much else going on in my life with work/ young children/looking after my mothers affairs etc.
I hear what you say @MartinWL and the current missinformation is preventing contact. I've seen so little of my mother since my father died in May that she no longer recognises me. But the thought of being pulled over and having to justify something as simple as a visit to see my mother and check on her home does make me really nervous about risking it.
@nitram I'm not travelling from one of the South African areas. I'm also not planning on coming into contact with anyone whilst there. I'm literally doing a window visit at the care home, going to my fathers grave and then entering my mothers empty house before coming home.

Its all rather rubbish isn't it.

​

 

[MartinWL]

The important thing to avoid passing on the infection, or catching it in the first place, is not really distance driving but minimising contact with other people close up. The virus doesn't follow you down the road, so if you have practiced social distancing carefully it isn't likely that you're going to take it to another area.

 

[Lynmax]

Well, I was stopped by the police in a south Manchester suburb this morning! They were pulling up a number of cars in a lay-by near Southern Cemetery. I was asked for my home address and I think they checked it from my number plate. As I was over ten miles from home, I had to explain that I was going to my mums empty house just up the road to meet a fitter who was installing some blinds. I went on to tell him about the leak and the ongoing repairs and that we needed to get tenants in ASAP to help with care home bills. The poor man ended up listening to the full saga!

It was fine, he agreed with me that the journey was permitted and I went on my way. I was rather shocked though and initially very concerned but he was a really nice guy.

 

[Shedrech]

I'm glad that it was agreed that your journey was acceptable ..... hopefully shows that those involved in the checks are being sensible about the explanations being given them

 

[MartinWL]

I'm glad that it was agreed that your journey was acceptable ..... hopefully shows that those involved in the checks are being sensible about the explanations being given them

I agree, but the trouble is that not all police officers have been that sensible!

 

[anxious annie]

I'm glad the police officer you were stopped by @Lynmax showed common sense.

 

[Jayenne]

My mum's care home say I would need to be individually risk assessed and tested if I ask to visit at the moment but as I live 200 miles away I also have concerns about the journey. As well as the risk of transmitting infection I think the issue is also that if I were involved in an accident that would take resources from the NHS to look after me. I'm also aware of recent publicity about Amanda Holden who had a distressing call from her elderly parents and rushed from London to Cornwall to them. The neighbours reported her and she was fined. That doesn't fit with the advice above, it's so confusing isn't it.

I'd also have to drive for 10 hours for a half hour visit (if permitted) as there's nowhere to stay overnight, but hey ho, you only have one mum!

Still undecided. Still confused. Still worried!

 

[MartinWL]

Amanda Holden probably didn't do anything wrong. We don't know exactly what the problem was that she went to help with but it seems unlikely that it was something trivial. The law is clear, it is lawful to be outside of home to:
-visit someone in a care home
- give care and assistance to a vulnerable person

provided that it is reasonably necessary. ( not "essential")

Distance doesn't come into it, the regulations say nothing at all about staying local.

IT isn't confusing if you read the regulations and ignore the newspapers, and thd broadcast media and remember that government guidance isn't law and you don't have to follow it.

Of course the risks associated with driving a car 200 miles are likely to be a lot more than any coronavirus risk so that is a valid consideration. It is a personal judgement. Perhaps you could go by train? That would be a lot safer. But we are talking about very very small risks here.

Sadly there has been a good deal of irresponsible media reporting around this case, deterring people from providing the elderly with the support that they should have.