Amending court of protection

[davehhh1]

Hi all,

My brother and I are joint deputees with a court of protection recently granted.

Our purpose for the deputyship was to gain control of our mothers finances as she did not give us LPA.

To our surprise the court of protection stated that if we wanted to sell my mother's property we can't do without permission from the court. I am stunned by this because we explicitly stated we wanted to rent or sell the property to pay her care home debts.

I'm v stressed at the moment as the council is really pushing us and threatening debt collectors on my mum's address and even ours. We have explained that we have requested deferred payment but they are just pushing us for money. I would describe it as harrasment.

Renting seems the only option but it will only cover half the months care home fees. I just want to sell it, pay off the council and get them off my back. My brother is pro rent mind so that is something we need to chat about and agree.

My question is, I know there is a form we will need for the court of protection, to allow us to sell, but are we going to have to wait 9 months again like when we got appointed deputyees for this amendment?

Thanks for help in advance.

 

[thistlejak]

@davehhh1 - We were Deputies for MIL & FIL - we had to reapply to the COP to be able to sell their house as we couldn't supply all the documentation about the house in the first application. The short answer to your question is yes you will have to wait - you could try asking for an interim order to be able to put the house up for sale and get the ball rolling but you won't be able to complete the sale until the full order comes through.

You say the council is chasing you - have you actually spoken to someone from the finance office or have you just had letters? In our case the council 'paid' FIL's fees for 7 months until we got control of his bank accounts. The person I spoke to was very understanding and even stopped the bills from arriving in the first place and we just settled up when we got access - maybe we were just lucky.

 

[davehhh1]

Thanks. It's disappointing we cannot sell now what a hassle. We now have control of my mum's accounts but she only has 7000 in cash and between now and the time we got the court order she has accumulated almost 90000 in debt. The council is now pushing where to send invoices.

I don't know what they want us to do we can arrange to pay them something out of her state pension and attendance allowance, all of it in fact but it won't cover her costs. That leaves us with the only option to rent again not covering the costs and more grief from the council.

I think the council just aren't speaking to each other and to be honest, the amount they are paid they don't care.

What kind of documentation will we need for the COP? We had no feedback during the application that they needed certain documentation. V frustrating.

 

[thistlejak]

With regards to the documentation for the COP - We spoke to the OPG before we applied for the second time and we were advised that we had to apply to be Trustees to replace MIL & FIL - both had dementia. If you speak to the OPG on the phone they are helpful.

COP1 form has a section 'Application relating to the appointment or discharge of a trustee' and it lists the sections you need to complete. Our application was complicated by the fact that the house was not on the Land Registry, so we had to photocopy 74 x A3 pages of deeds to send to the court and get them verified by a Solicitor.

Hope this helps with the court bit - not sure how to help you with the council.

 

[davehhh1]

Oh man what an error on our part then. The frustrating thing with this is, the court didn't tell us but pocketed the money and will make us do another. They were quick to reject the application in one week because I did not write "and xx pence" on the cheque.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[davehhh1]

Just wondering, the council have a copy of our court of protection. They can see we haven't got authority to sell, they have full oversight of her bank accounts. What on earth do they expect us to do?

 

[PaulKB]

I also requested to sell my mother's house when I applied for deputyship, but when I got the orders, one of them specified I needed further approval from the Court to do that. The reason being that when I originally applied my mother was still living at home. The Court needed assurance that she had permanently moved to a care home with no prospect of going back. I got the approval after submitting reports of incapacity from the care home and proof of an application for DOLS.

Also I begin the process of selling before I had the approval, but made it clear to the agent and the prospective buyers that they would have to wait for the court approval before the sale could be completed. It all worked out OK.

 

[davehhh1]

I also requested to sell my mother's house when I applied for deputyship, but when I got the orders, one of them specified I needed further approval from the Court to do that. The reason being that when I originally applied my mother was still living at home. The Court needed assurance that she had permanently moved to a care home with no prospect of going back. I got the approval after submitting reports of incapacity from the care home and proof of an application for DOLS.

Also I begin the process of selling before I had the approval, but made it clear to the agent and the prospective buyers that they would have to wait for the court approval before the sale could be completed. It all worked out OK.

Thank you for this. May I ask the process you went through to get further approval from the court? What should be my first step? Many thanks

 

[PaulKB]

When I was appointed deputy I received 2 Orders- one for the deputyship and another one explaining what I had to do to get approval to sell the house. Your situation might be different. What I had to do was submit a COP9 and COP24. I was asked to detail on the COP24 that there had been a best interests decision that my mother could no longer go on living in her house. Also that a DOLS authorisation has been sought.

Other people here might know about how one goes about requesting approval if you hadn't got the supplementary order as I had.

 

[davehhh1]

Thanks I called the OPG today for guidance, they can't comment on why we were not allowed to sell the property there was no guidance. I think that's a bit off and an unnecessary expense but the extra 379 pound to do another pales in the amount of debt my mum's accumalated so doesn't matter.

Anyway I was told I need to do a COP1 again and a COP24.

Thanks your feedback

 

[davehhh1]

When I was appointed deputy I received 2 Orders- one for the deputyship and another one explaining what I had to do to get approval to sell the house. Your situation might be different. What I had to do was submit a COP9 and COP24. I was asked to detail on the COP24 that there had been a best interests decision that my mother could no longer go on living in her house. Also that a DOLS authorisation has been sought.

Other people here might know about how one goes about requesting approval if you hadn't got the supplementary order as I had.

Sorry to trouble. When you submitted your COP9 and COP24 did you have to pay again? Because I certainly have to pay again for that COP1 and COP24...

 

[PaulKB]

I did not have to pay any more for the COP9 and COP24 submission.

 

[davehhh1]

Thanks for that my guidance was to use cop1 again and yes another cheque for 371 pounds. Disappointing but the amount involved already in this whole stressful time doesn't make much difference.