2016 cap on care costs will help few

[stanleypj]

I missed this when it was news and stumbled across it by accident:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27363896

Apologies if it's already been discussed or if you know it all already. It should be discussed as the changes due in 2016 seem to have been hyped somewhat.

This are complex issues here and it's not easy to get your head round them. The important point is that the cap is only on care costs. This has always been the case but has not always been made clear.

 

[Raggedrobin]

Yes depressing. I will have spent about £150k on mum's care before she reaches that cap and then we will still end up paying most of the care costs.

 

[nitram]

"..The important point is that the cap is only on care costs. This has always been the case but has not always been made clear..."


Even worse the care cost is the LA tariff for the particular home, not what the home charges self funders, a resident could pay £750/Wk but only £450/Wk might count towards the limit.

The article mentions this but you may have to read it twice to get the full message.
"The IFoA said that because the cap did not cover accommodation and living expenses - but rather the amount a local authority pays for care - "

All LAs are expected to set a tariff for each home in their area, the tariff should take local parameters into account.

 

[stanleypj]

Thanks nitram. You've reminded me of another issue that is mentioned on TP from time to time but maybe news to some and that's the fact that care homes (all? many? a few?) set their self-funding fees in a way that means that self-funders are subsidising the LA places.

 

[Wolfsgirl]

Yikes! Complicated why am I not surprised! Does anyone know how you calculate how much of the care home costs equate to care only?

 

[nitram]

"...Does anyone know how you calculate how much of the care home costs equate to care only?..."

The hotel element has a separate cap at £12,000.
Once again it will be the LA's calculation of a fair cost that applies, not what the home calculates.

Summary AIUI

Those with assets of over £118,000 (including the value of property) will be liable for all care home costs until they reach a cap or their assets fall below £118,000.

There will be two separate caps:-
Care element - £72,000
Direct care staff including managers.

Hotel element - £12,000
Other staff,property costs,provision of food,cleaning,laundry.

The LA will determine the price they should expect to pay for each service, using local data and including a profit margin to ensure financial viability of the provider. Some things may be regarded as extras, hairdressing, entertainment,...

The amount of time it will take a resident to reach either of the caps will depend on how much the LA has valued the services provided and not what the resident actually pays.

I predict some rather creative accountancy by both the LAs and care providers.

 

[Raggedrobin]

I wonder when in 2016 this will happen, it says somewhere I read it will be 'rolled out' then but I could do with something a bit more exact than that. And if we have a change of govt in the mean time, I wonder if they would change this or delay it further?

 

[stanleypj]

Labour have pointed out the shortcomings of the plan without suggesting how they would change it. We'll have to wait until we'e closer to the election, I think.

 

[Beate]

But you can only be forced to pay with money you've got - once you run out of money or have very little at all the state will have to step in, right?
And is it true that only the person in the care home's finances will be taken into account, not anyone else's?

 

[Pickles53]

I have read somewhere that if a person is in a care home before the new system starts, the fees paid before the start date in 2016 won't count towards the cap at all. Effectively the meter only starts running from the start date however much you have already paid will be irrelevant.

Is that what others think or have I got this wrong?

 

[nitram]

Pickles53

I believe that to be correct.

 

[stanleypj]

That's what I thought. This will seem unfair to many people.

But I suppose however they did it, there would have to be a starting point for 'the clock' and some people would miss out.

 

[nitram]

"...But you can only be forced to pay with money you've got - once you run out of money or have very little at all the state will have to step in, right?..."
And is it true that only the person in the care home's finances will be taken into account, not anyone else's?

AIUI for the care element the system will be similar to that in use now except that the lower and upper limits will be £17k and £118k but there will be the £72k cap.

The resident will have to pay the hotel element until they reach the £12k cap, I presume this will be out of capital, pension income being used for care costs.

Obviously if the resident has no assets somebody else will have to pay.

At the present family members cannot be asked to pay although it will most likely be suggested that they should. This has not always been the case, prior to 6th April 2009 LAs could charge a spouse or civil partner, it has not been suggested that this should be reintroduced.

 

[Wirralson]

At the present family members cannot be asked to pay although it will most likely be suggested that they should. This has not always been the case, prior to 6th April 2009 LAs could charge a spouse or civil partner, it has not been suggested that this should be reintroduced.


Nitram

The above point is very likely to be suggested by some politicians - I understand one "think tank" has been touting the idea of a US-style Family Responsibilities Act (I think Virginia tried this) and/or the former Scots law of aliment, although I can't now find the reference. I also think it is unlikely to become law, simply because it can be so easily evaded - the reason the previous requirement was abandoned.

W

 

[mancmum]

Hotel costs = 12,000?

I saw somewhere a reference to the fact that the reason for charging hotel costs was because it would cost someone 12,000 to simply exist.

I know my father wanted to avoid paying care home fees but the POA was drawn up quickly and does not include reference to this.

The family have agreed that I receive 90% of state pension level as housekeeping - mindful of the fact that the OPG does not allow the payment of rent.

What do people think the OPG might think of a 12,000 payment (from someone with significant resources to cover their 'hotel' expenses). P.S this hotel is quite good ...

 

[WILLIAMR]

I am wondering if anything is going to be done in situations where a property is owned by a parent and offspring.
My father never went in to care but had very little at the end of his life in cash terms.
I owned half of my parental home as it was left to me by my mother.
The will was made out in the 70's.
Under present law the council would have had to pay for most of the care as I would have stopped the sale of the house.


William