Enduring power of attorney

[susy]

I have a question, when this needs to be invoked the donor has to sign a formal piece of paper don't they? How has anyone managed to do this when the donor is "difficult" yet definitely requiring the EPA invoking for their own well being. This person will be totally self funding.
Thank you in advance?

 

[nitram]

The donor does not have to sign anything.

An attorney has a duty to register the EPA with the OPG when they consider the donor has lost, or is loosing, capacity.

The registered EPA gives an attorney the power to handle an incapable donor's financial affairs.

 

[cragmaid]

Can I just check that you actually mean EPA and not Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA)

Enduring powers of attorney have been replaced by lasting powers of attorney in England and Wales. However, they can still be used if they were made and signed before October 2007.

You must register the enduring power of attorney if the donor is losing, or has lost the ability to make their own decisions.

....these quotes are taken from the www.gov.uk site.

 

[Nebiroth]

I have a question, when this needs to be invoked the donor has to sign a formal piece of paper don't they? How has anyone managed to do this when the donor is "difficult" yet definitely requiring the EPA invoking for their own well being. This person will be totally self funding.
Thank you in advance?

It doesn't. The donor only creates and signs the original EPA document. It is "invoked", that is, it is registered and the attorneys gain authority, when the attorneys determine that the donor has lost capacity. They need not consult or have th epermission of the donor.

The rules for EPA's are different than for it's replacement, which is the LPA (Lasting Power of Attorney). EPA's can no longe rbe created, but old ones remain valid and can still be registered and used.

Part of the registration process is formally informing the donor. This is usually in writing. It does not matter if the donor never bothers to open their mail, is unable to read it or does not understand it.

However, the Court can issue a dispensation if notification would cause the donor "undue distress". IIRC you would need evidence for that - such as a letter from say the GP.

The donor need not give permission to "invoke" the EPA. It's done when they have lost capacity so the whole thing is structured to allow for the difficult you point out, that someone has lost capacity and therefore cannot make an informed decision to hand over their affairs to someone else - in essence they make this decision in advance, when they create the EPA. The detemrination as to when to use it lies with the attorney(s)...not the donor.

 

[Katrine]

Here's the link to the document pack online https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/register-an-enduring-power-of-attorney

It's quite straightforward. I think it took us about 10 weeks, including the notification period to relevant interested parties, i.e. close relatives.

 

[susy]

Thank you all so much for your help, when I looked it seemed she would have to sign something but what you all say make much more sense. It is definitely Enduring power of attorney that they have.

 

[MReader]

We registered my husband's Enduring Power of Attorney last year. It is not difficult - we just downloaded the forms and sent them off. Quite expensive though - from memory about £130.
You have to advise anybody who is involved with the person, including the person themselves.
My husband would not have understood and/or got upset, so we just told him that the EPA has to be updated every now & then.
We filled in the form to him & showed it to him briefly, talking all the time he had it, so he did not get a chance to query it.
We now have a registered EPA so I can now rest assured I have everything under control.

 

[Nebiroth]

So long as she signed the original EPA itself and that is properly witnessed etc then her involvement in the process ends (aside from being notified, although this requirement can be waived). Until the EPA is registered she could revoke the EPA - but after it is registered she could only do so if the Court of Protection agrees to it.

 

[Steve1310]

Help with completing LPA

Hello, as somebody new to this forum I am extremely stressed at the lack of third party help from the so-called local 'specialist services' such as social services and even our GP.
I was recently saddled out of the blue with needing to care for my Dad as another family member who was his full time carer brought him round to me for his regularly weekend break but has never returned.
It appears evident that a new person in her life is pulling the strings as it were and decided it she had to make a choice.
I'm employed full time but as a knee-jerk reaction took my total annual leave entitlement off in one go to try and sort things albeit I really do not know where to start?
Having had muted social services advice, I tried to get GP's appointment as my Dad does not eat but just want fluids all the time (tea, coffee, fizzy drink, lager), but again they seem to be uninterested that he has not been to see them for some time despite his condition. The appointment I have been given is for 23 June 2014!
I looked at LPA's and thought I should get these in place, both financially and health and welfare but am worried that on the government website it seems that these should be in place PRIOR to the onset of mental difficulties and I'm concerned I might be contravening the Mental Act which is keeps referring to during the application process?
I feel these are pivotal documents to have in place which is why I was looking to complete these myself as I certainly could not pay the sort of money solicitor's are looking for their services in respect of these legal documents.
I'm also finding it confusing about why and what to ask of people who have known my Dad in this condition for two years and are prepared to be witnesses to these documents?
As a single father with two children, the whole saga is deeply stressful and I'm hoping to find support in this community. Our lives have been turned around in a week and whilst I do not want to blame my sister or the manner in how I've ended up in this situation, I'm desperately despairing over what I need to do as I'm finding more and more that things my sister told us (the wider family) were in place, are in not. Are LPA's the first thing I should be getting in place whilst I wait for the so-called helpful agencies to respond.

 

[Nebiroth]

I feel these are pivotal documents to have in place which is why I was looking to complete these myself as I certainly could not pay the sort of money solicitor's are looking for their services in respect of these legal documents.
I'm also finding it confusing about why and what to ask of people who have known my Dad in this condition for two years and are prepared to be witnesses to these documents?
As a single father with two children, the whole saga is deeply stressful and I'm hoping to find support in this community. Our lives have been turned around in a week and whilst I do not want to blame my sister or the manner in how I've ended up in this situation, I'm desperately despairing over what I need to do as I'm finding more and more that things my sister told us (the wider family) were in place, are in not. Are LPA's the first thing I should be getting in place whilst I wait for the so-called helpful agencies to respond.

I would definitely put in place LPA's - financial and health and welfare.

As far as I am aware, the only relevance your dad's mental state has is that he needs to be able to understand what he is signing and what the LPA's do. The only requirement is that he understands them at that point - it doesn't matter if he becomes confused about them later on. Memory is virtually irrelevent, so it wouldn't matter if he forgot about them a minute later.

Again, as far as I am aware, the witnesses simply attest that the donor (your dad) understands what he is doing and is not under any undue influence or pressure whilst doing so.

It does not have to be a legal or medical professional. Only someone who knows him well enough to make a reasonably informed judgement about this.

LPA's are designed to be created by a layerperson, although many elect to go through a solicitor. You might "shop around" and get some quotes; a small outfit often charges a lot less than the ones on the fancy buildings. You can go to any solicitor you like, it doesn't have to be you "family" one.

A solicitor would ensure that their client (your dad) had passed the capacity and influence requirements - usually by simply interviewing the client on their own. If there is doubt about capacity then they might ask for evidence from a medical professional. But again it is down to the judgement of the solicitor.

Having said all this, an LPA would usually only be questioned if someone challenged it - usually during the registration process. AFAIK, the Court of Protection does not routinely or randomly challenge an LPA. They would simply ensure that the LPA was correctly filled in, witnessed, etc. So long as it is, there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Florence.]

Hello Steve, I'm relatively new to this forum but have found everybody very helpful and understanding. As far as Lasting Powers of Attorney are concerned, my understanding is that these should be completed whilst the Donor still has mental capacity to sign and understand what they are being asked to do. You can run the forms off the internet and the guidance notes will help. If your Dad has mental capacity to understand and sign, then get the LPAs done as soon as possible. It's about 130 pounds for each LPA, if I remember correctly. If your Dad lacks mental capacity to sign and understand then you have to go along the Court of Protection route which takes longer and costs more. The Office of the Public Guardian is very helpful and their number is on the guidance notes for the LPA. Do ring them as they will help. As for friends, Make sure they state exactly the capacity they have known your Dad in and for how long. Try not to be put off by the guidance notes. Read them through a couple of times. I did my own LPA and kept it until last year when my husbands mental capacity failed. I hope this is useful but do press both your GP and social services for help. You will find a lot of help on this forum. Good luck.

Hello, as somebody new to this forum I am extremely stressed at the lack of third party help from the so-called local 'specialist services' such as social services and even our GP.
I was recently saddled out of the blue with needing to care for my Dad as another family member who was his full time carer brought him round to me for his regularly weekend break but has never returned.
It appears evident that a new person in her life is pulling the strings as it were and decided it she had to make a choice.
I'm employed full time but as a knee-jerk reaction took my total annual leave entitlement off in one go to try and sort things albeit I really do not know where to start?
Having had muted social services advice, I tried to get GP's appointment as my Dad does not eat but just want fluids all the time (tea, coffee, fizzy drink, lager), but again they seem to be uninterested that he has not been to see them for some time despite his condition. The appointment I have been given is for 23 June 2014!
I looked at LPA's and thought I should get these in place, both financially and health and welfare but am worried that on the government website it seems that these should be in place PRIOR to the onset of mental difficulties and I'm concerned I might be contravening the Mental Act which is keeps referring to during the application process?
I feel these are pivotal documents to have in place which is why I was looking to complete these myself as I certainly could not pay the sort of money solicitor's are looking for their services in respect of these legal documents.
I'm also finding it confusing about why and what to ask of people who have known my Dad in this condition for two years and are prepared to be witnesses to these documents?
As a single father with two children, the whole saga is deeply stressful and I'm hoping to find support in this community. Our lives have been turned around in a week and whilst I do not want to blame my sister or the manner in how I've ended up in this situation, I'm desperately despairing over what I need to do as I'm finding more and more that things my sister told us (the wider family) were in place, are in not. Are LPA's the first thing I should be getting in place whilst I wait for the so-called helpful agencies to respond.