My sister and I are jointly and severally attorneys for our mother, we recently registered the enduring power of attorney with the OPG. Her bank says she can no longer sign anything, cheques etc and we will have to sign them for her, I understand that. They also said her account will not be able to have a debit card. I do all her shopping for her and since the banks no longer guarantee cheques most shops won't accept cheques anymore, the bank suggested that I cash a cheque and pay by cash but I really don't want to be carry large amounts of money around and it's going to be a right pain having to keep track of what each withdrawal is for. Can anyone tell me how they manage?
Enduring Power of Attorney and Bank Accounts
- Thread starter Netski129
- Start date
If there is a another suitably located bank ask if they would supply a debit card, if the answer is 'yes', open an account in your mother's name and when you get the card close the existing account and transfer all the funds to the new bank.
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Nitram is correct, from personal experience I can tell you Lloyds will let you and your mum with your permission have cards when you have PoA, Santander will not let the donor have a card or cheque book, but they will let the PoA have it.
I would double check with the bank (the levels of knowledge vary greatly from branch to branch even within the same bank in my experience), it doesn't sound right to me that no one can have a card but nothing would shock me after the last two years worth of problems.
I would double check with the bank (the levels of knowledge vary greatly from branch to branch even within the same bank in my experience), it doesn't sound right to me that no one can have a card but nothing would shock me after the last two years worth of problems.
OH has a debit card as attorney for his mum, and also does online banking. The accounts are with Barclays. He doesn't have a cheque book which very occasionally causes problems but he could probably get one if he needed it. Most bills can be paid by BACS transfer. If OH pays for something with his own money, e.g. on eBay, then he just does an online transfer of the relevant funds from his mum's account with a suitable reference description.
Thank you all for your replies, I agree with Noorza about the level of knowledge even within a single branch I have been told different things and the POA has already been returned by their legal department because of inconsistencies on the forms they sent with it.
I guess I'm just going to have to use my own account and then reimburse myself even though I think I shouldn't have to do that. They said I could have internet banking and have an appointment to set it up but due to the lack of knowledge I'm half expecting them so say I can't when I turn up. I've never done internet banking before, spunds good if I can enter my own reference descriptions, thanks Katrine for that.
I'll look into what Lloyds can offer and if it looks good I may just take nitram's advice.
Many thanks for your help.
I guess I'm just going to have to use my own account and then reimburse myself even though I think I shouldn't have to do that. They said I could have internet banking and have an appointment to set it up but due to the lack of knowledge I'm half expecting them so say I can't when I turn up. I've never done internet banking before, spunds good if I can enter my own reference descriptions, thanks Katrine for that.
I'll look into what Lloyds can offer and if it looks good I may just take nitram's advice.
Many thanks for your help.
I used to do MIL's shopping when I did my own , work out how much her's was & then re-imburse myself by using the cashcard for her POA account with Lloyds. Everything else was done by direct debit from the account & I just kept detailed records of income & outgoings. Lloyds were very helpful & knowledgeable about POA accounts as were Leeds Building Society.
Anyone who may be interested, seeing as problems registering POAs with banks crops up regularly on TP, the following is what my husband heard on the radio and might be useful for some of you.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03w16j4
Scroll down to “READ THE TRANSCRIPT” of the Radio 4 programme.
THIS TRANSCRIPT IS ISSUED ON THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT IS TAKEN FROM A LIVE PROGRAMME AS IT WAS BROADCAST. THE NATURE OF LIVE BROADCASTING MEANS THAT NEITHER THE BBC NOR THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROGRAMME CAN GUARANTEE THE ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION HERE.
MONEY BOX LIVE
Presenter: LESLEY CURWEN
Alan Eccles is the Public Guardian for England and Wales; in Edinburgh is Sandra McDonald, who’s the Public Guardian for Scotland where the rules are somewhat different; and also solicitor and author Caroline Bielanska from Solicitors for the Elderly.
TRANSMISSION: 26th FEBRUARY 2014 3.00-3.30 RADIO 4
CURWEN: Okay, Phil, thank you for that. I want to read a quick email about banks actually, but in a slightly different context. An email from Steve who says that he’s tried to register a Power of Attorney with a particular bank. It’s taken six visits to two branches, two meetings with a branch manager, pounds in calls to 0845 numbers, and caused him a great deal of stress. And he claims that this particular bank had no coherent procedure for allowing registration of Powers of Attorney. How much do you get this sort of thing, Alan Eccles - complaints about the banks just not doing it quickly enough?
ECCLES: It happens sufficiently regularly for us to be doing a considerable amount of work with the banks. We’ve been doing a great deal of work with the British Banking Association and the Buildings Societies Association and on 1st April 2013 we issued a joint charter about Third-Party Mandates and Powers of Attorney, which is a standard now across all banking institutions. We issued both a guide for the consumer and a guide for banking staff badged under the three organisations. And in addition to that, we now at the Office of the Public Guardian raise general concerns that people are raising with us about services by banks with each of the individual banks and we’re actually working with each of them to try and address each of these issues.
CURWEN: Sandra in Edinburgh, do you get complaints like this?
McDONALD: Very similar complaints and regularly. I think we have to acknowledge that the banks you know do create an issue for us here, but there is a genuine willingness on their part to address this. They’re putting in, for instance, dementia champions into branches, really trying very hard and proactively to change this situation.
Many thanks to retiredcopper and norfolkgirl for your replies too.
I had the appointment to set up internet banking with HSBC, the POA forms were still at the branch untouched since the legal dept had sent them back even though I had been in to sort out the hiccup. As I thought, I was told I couldn't have internet banking but after consulting the manager I was told I could but not until the forms were registered with the legal dept. but as they had failed to send them they weren't registered. Also, I definitely can't have a card 'it's the law'! .... HSBC's law I think.
Next Barclay's, I was told POA's only apply to existing accounts so I cannot open a cash card account! They refused to register the POA with their legal dept because my mother's savings accounts had gone into dormancy and were closed, I could only get the money back if SHE signed a form and they would send a cheque to HER!
I went to Lloyds even though my mother has no accounts with them and asked about how they deal with POA. I was directed to their POA expert who very helpfully explained that as attorney all banking power gets transferred to me and I can do anything my mother would have done banking wise including having a card and opening an account. He said the cheques and cards would have 'attorney for' on them. Thank heaven for Lloyds!
I will let the dust settle for a bit, find out how to get the dormant accounts back safely and move everything to Lloyds, they deserve it!
I had the appointment to set up internet banking with HSBC, the POA forms were still at the branch untouched since the legal dept had sent them back even though I had been in to sort out the hiccup. As I thought, I was told I couldn't have internet banking but after consulting the manager I was told I could but not until the forms were registered with the legal dept. but as they had failed to send them they weren't registered. Also, I definitely can't have a card 'it's the law'! .... HSBC's law I think.
Next Barclay's, I was told POA's only apply to existing accounts so I cannot open a cash card account! They refused to register the POA with their legal dept because my mother's savings accounts had gone into dormancy and were closed, I could only get the money back if SHE signed a form and they would send a cheque to HER!
I went to Lloyds even though my mother has no accounts with them and asked about how they deal with POA. I was directed to their POA expert who very helpfully explained that as attorney all banking power gets transferred to me and I can do anything my mother would have done banking wise including having a card and opening an account. He said the cheques and cards would have 'attorney for' on them. Thank heaven for Lloyds!
I will let the dust settle for a bit, find out how to get the dormant accounts back safely and move everything to Lloyds, they deserve it!
I ended up with my wife's current account at LLoyds because Halifax (owned by Lloyds) next door but one would not allowed internet banking.
I did not say anything about my experience with specific banks in case it varied from branch to branch but LLoyds seems to be coming out a clear winner.
As for Barclays send an email >>>HERE<<< saying that as you have a registered LPA you would like to close a/c ****** but that ******** branch say this cannot be done without your mother's signature which she cannot provide. Offer to take the LPA to your local branch to enable them to close the account.
EDIT
Open the LLoyds account with a fiver, then it's done and dusted and you can get the other banks to do a transfer direct to the new account.
I did not say anything about my experience with specific banks in case it varied from branch to branch but LLoyds seems to be coming out a clear winner.
As for Barclays send an email >>>HERE<<< saying that as you have a registered LPA you would like to close a/c ****** but that ******** branch say this cannot be done without your mother's signature which she cannot provide. Offer to take the LPA to your local branch to enable them to close the account.
EDIT
Open the LLoyds account with a fiver, then it's done and dusted and you can get the other banks to do a transfer direct to the new account.
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Initially I wasn't going to mention banks by name and I think we have mentioned earlier in the thread about knowledge differing from branch to branch and within branch. I apologise to those working in the banks mentioned who really know their stuff, if you are one of those perhaps you could suggest that you become their dedicated POA expert. The point I'm trying to make is that both the frustrating banks knew what my appointment was for so surely I should have been given an appointment with someone that knew about it. I wouldn't even have minded if they said we don't have anyone at this branch that can help you but there's someone at so and so branch that can. What is really frustrating is being given unhelpful advice when we're already trying to cope with caring for someone who is mentally ill.
Well done for finally landing on the most helpful bank at Lloyds. Don't leave it too long before you do anything in case they change their tack.
Debit Care
My Mum's EPA is also registered but banks with one of the big 4 beginning with B. The card has my name as well as TPA (Third Party Account/Access). The account is accessed via my account with the same bank but in her name. This means when doing the 'accounts' I can flip into her account and log everything. It was set up this way by the bank. I am sure banks operate differently so it could be worth shopping around. Best Wishes
My Mum's EPA is also registered but banks with one of the big 4 beginning with B. The card has my name as well as TPA (Third Party Account/Access). The account is accessed via my account with the same bank but in her name. This means when doing the 'accounts' I can flip into her account and log everything. It was set up this way by the bank. I am sure banks operate differently so it could be worth shopping around. Best Wishes
I'm so glad you got a good service from Lloyds. I personally don't bank with them but my parents do so should I have to go down this path again at least I know that Lloyds are on the ball with a POA.
Angie
i am POA for Mum and her bank have allowed her to keep her debit card. I also have a debit card but there is no cheque book for the account,
If Mum goes into the bank to withdraw money , the bank staff phone to let me know, although she has been unable to go out unaided for some time now.
i must confess i have had nothing but problems with her Bank and have numerous complaints logged about how I can use my POA on her account. quite simply, the bank and its POA arrangements are a shambles,
If Mum goes into the bank to withdraw money , the bank staff phone to let me know, although she has been unable to go out unaided for some time now.
i must confess i have had nothing but problems with her Bank and have numerous complaints logged about how I can use my POA on her account. quite simply, the bank and its POA arrangements are a shambles,
.. i wondered why i was having trouble.
have just started trying to use my Power of Attorney with one of the big four .. it's taken two visits (so far) .. this time sent away because my utility bill did not contain my full name. .. it feels like stalling tactics. I guess I'll try another branch and see how I get on there - wear my DF badge and see if I get more understanding customer service.
have just started trying to use my Power of Attorney with one of the big four .. it's taken two visits (so far) .. this time sent away because my utility bill did not contain my full name. .. it feels like stalling tactics. I guess I'll try another branch and see how I get on there - wear my DF badge and see if I get more understanding customer service.
