Care Home vs Home Care Advice needed please

[tonyald]

Hi,

New to the forum and needing advice please.

My mother in law is 87 and following her diagnosis of alzheimers and following a major operation she has resided in a care home for the last 8 months voluntarily and with family support. Her care in this home has been far from satisfactory and the family decided that it would be better for her to be in her own home and receive care at home along with support from her family. Social services initially went along with this and a OHT was involved to help with her move home, initially through a 2 week assessment in a rehab unit. However, the OHT said she was well enough to not attend the assessment and with some modifications to her home all should be well. Notice was given at the care home. 5 days before her planned move home, her social worker and OHT arranged a meeting with my wife, which i attended in the care home along with my mother in law. It was obvious the the 2 of them behind the scenes had decided that they were not going to allow my mother in law to leave the home on the planned date and the social worker asked my mother in law directly whether she wanted to move home. Despite saying in the presence of the OHT 15 mins earlier that she would, when asked by the social worker she stated that she was happy where she was. The OHT then stated the risks of her move i.e. falling etc. I questioned that she was at as much risk in the home if not significantly more, she had fallen at least twice, contracted CDif twice, come within 2 hours of her life having been rushed to hospital after neglect so in our opinion she would be better looked after at her own home. The upshot of all of this was that they would not allow her to be taken home until a meeting had been convened to discuss her mental ability to make decisions for herself. Do we as a family have any legal rights in this matter or do the social services hold all the cards. We are extremely anxious that the odds are stacked against us as we do not know where we stand legally. Any advice or sources of advice would be gratefully received. Thank you.

 

[Margaret W]

Hello Tony and welcome to the Forum.

I have only general advice to offer, I hope someone with more experience will come along soon. Just didn't want you to feel you were being ignored at this difficult time.

Meg

 

[tonyald]

Thank you Meg, much appreciated.

 

[jeany123]

Hello tonyald and welcome to talking point, I am sorry I cannot help but am sure that you will get some advice soon,

Best wishes, Jeany,

 

[lexy]

Hi,

New to the forum and needing advice please.

My mother in law is 87 and following her diagnosis of alzheimers and following a major operation she has resided in a care home for the last 8 months voluntarily and with family support. Her care in this home has been far from satisfactory and the family decided that it would be better for her to be in her own home and receive care at home along with support from her family. Social services initially went along with this and a OHT was involved to help with her move home, initially through a 2 week assessment in a rehab unit. However, the OHT said she was well enough to not attend the assessment and with some modifications to her home all should be well. Notice was given at the care home. 5 days before her planned move home, her social worker and OHT arranged a meeting with my wife, which i attended in the care home along with my mother in law. It was obvious the the 2 of them behind the scenes had decided that they were not going to allow my mother in law to leave the home on the planned date and the social worker asked my mother in law directly whether she wanted to move home. Despite saying in the presence of the OHT 15 mins earlier that she would, when asked by the social worker she stated that she was happy where she was. The OHT then stated the risks of her move i.e. falling etc. I questioned that she was at as much risk in the home if not significantly more, she had fallen at least twice, contracted CDif twice, come within 2 hours of her life having been rushed to hospital after neglect so in our opinion she would be better looked after at her own home. The upshot of all of this was that they would not allow her to be taken home until a meeting had been convened to discuss her mental ability to make decisions for herself. Do we as a family have any legal rights in this matter or do the social services hold all the cards. We are extremely anxious that the odds are stacked against us as we do not know where we stand legally. Any advice or sources of advice would be gratefully received. Thank you.

Hello Tonyald

Do you have Lasting Power of Attorney if you do not I should get it fast! I do not think that the Social worker can make your mum stay in a home if you do not want her there. They should arrange for a Care Agency to come to her home and look after her after they have assessed her needs. Many people seem to think that Dementia/Care homes are a place of safety, this is certainly not the case, statistically I think more accidents happen in care homes than when a person is in their own home.

My dear mum was much safer in her own home and then when I had her come to live with me. The first injuries she ever received were when she was first placed in a home, she fell out of the bed because the incompetent staff did not put up bed rails, she was badly bruised and looked awful. I also saw other residents who had suffered injuries because they had not been hoisted properly into wheelchairs, there were also residents in this home that were hitting each other, needless to say I got my mum out of there. If you mum is compliant and will let carer's wash her and help her I would try and keep her in her own home as long as possible. I am not saying care at home is brilliant because it isn't always the case but if you are not satisfied with the care agency you can always complain and ask for another service provider.

 

[tonyald]

Thank you Jeany

 

[tonyald]

Many thanks Lexy, I had never hear of Lasting Power of Attorney but will pass this on. My wifes brother has Power of Attorney but i can see this will need to be sorted. We as a family feel that the social worker and OHT (why does this person have any power at all???) are in a position of power and are telling us what is best when the family are in a far better position to judge. My mother in law was transferred into the dementia part of the care home and to be honest i am not even sure she should be there. She is compliant, not aggressive and is far more aware of what she is doing than most of them in there. She has improved markedly in the last few weeks and is now doing things for herself, dressing herself and going the toilet. I and the family feel she could give being cared for at home a try even if it is for a trial period, but the social services seem dead set against it and i cannot understand their reasoning. I appreciate your reply and any more advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated. I will get onto the Lasting Power of Attorney.

 

[garnuft]

The only thing I can say and my Mother lived in her own home, without falls and with only one instance of wandering in the early hours, is...

there are 24 hours in a day and no care package will cover this.

The majority of the day, unless her family are willing, as we did, to give up most part of every day to support, for a long time, no financial help is available to support the kind of care that is required.

But you can try with support, it's good your MIL will accept outside support, some people NEVER will.
My Mother being one of those.

To be honest, I would be looking at another care home that does meet her care needs and satisfies her family that she is safe.

 

[Saffie]

tonyald, Lasting Power of Attourney (LPA) and Power of Attourney are the same thing.
So, as someone already has this, you would not be able to have it too. In addition it does take a bit of time to set up and it sounds as though you need action about your MIL pretty quickly.

What you could check is if your BIL has LPA for Health and Welfare as well as Legal and finance.There are separate ones for each, i.e. two. That is unless he has the old style attourneyship which is called an Enduring Power of Attourney,(EPA)which was only the one. Either way, it seems your BIL is the one with the authority so you really need his support.

I think Garnuft is right that it would be difficult for you with your MIL at home but I can understand your feelings as my husband was placed in a nursing home against my wishes. Just do think very carefully about how you would manage this if you do manage to bring her home. You will need the SW's support for getting help in the home unless you are totally self-funding.
Best of luck, I hope things work out whatever happens.

 

[nitram]

The brother may have general power of attorney or be a signatory on the bank account neither of these preclude the mother granting an LPA if she has capacity.

 

[lexy]

Many thanks Lexy, I had never hear of Lasting Power of Attorney but will pass this on. My wifes brother has Power of Attorney but i can see this will need to be sorted. We as a family feel that the social worker and OHT (why does this person have any power at all???) are in a position of power and are telling us what is best when the family are in a far better position to judge. My mother in law was transferred into the dementia part of the care home and to be honest i am not even sure she should be there. She is compliant, not aggressive and is far more aware of what she is doing than most of them in there. She has improved markedly in the last few weeks and is now doing things for herself, dressing herself and going the toilet. I and the family feel she could give being cared for at home a try even if it is for a trial period, but the social services seem dead set against it and i cannot understand their reasoning. I appreciate your reply and any more advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated. I will get onto the Lasting Power of Attorney.

Hello Tonyald

I am assuming that because there is a social worker involved that your mum is not self funding but if she is paying for the care herself you can place her anywhere you like that is suitable. My mum had the onset of dementia but that does not mean a person has no mental capacity, they can still make decisions, your mum sounds to me as if both she and your family would be happier if she could be looked after at home, I would never recommend a dementia home, most of the residents I came across want to stay in their own homes as long as possible. I am slightly surprised that the SW would not prefer your mum in law to stay in her own home because this would be less cost to the local authority if she is receiving financial help with her care.

 

[Saffie]

I would never recommend a dementia home,

Many times, especially as this is a forum for the Alzheimer's Society, people have no option and many homes that accept residents with dementia are lovely places.

 

[jeany123]

Many times, especially as this is a forum for the Alzheimer's Society, people have no option and many homes that accept residents with dementia are lovely places.

I agree Saffie the CH that Allen is in temporarily at the moment is lovely, and statements such as
(I would never recommend a dementia home)

isn't very encouraging and doesn't help anyone especially when sometimes there is no option,

 

[lexy]

I agree Saffie the CH that Allen is in temporarily at the moment is lovely, and wide sweeping statements such as
(I would never recommend a dementia home)

isn't very encouraging and doesn't help anyone especially when sometimes there is no option,

Your experiences of dementia homes have obviously been very different to mine and you have obviously never watched any of the current affairs programmes regarding some of the appauling things that go on in care homes, granted this does not apply to all of them and I was able to find a decent dementia home for my poor mum to die in, the fact that I had to move her from three others where the care was very bad should not be, I was forced to place my mother in home towards the later stages of her dementia, I was devoted to her and a home was a very last resort like it probably is for most people. I met other relatives in one of the homes that had moved their mother a dozen times in order to find suitable care, have you not heard that there is a crisis regarding care of the elderly? What really bothers me is that this all happened to me four years ago and nothing much seems to have changed!

 

[lexy]

Many times, especially as this is a forum for the Alzheimer's Society, people have no option and many homes that accept residents with dementia are lovely places.

I am sure there are dementia homes where the care is good but it took me a while to find one and I am sure that different people have different standards, what one person thinks may be suitable another person may find the care most unsuitable, I suppose it just depends on how fastidious you are.

 

[LYN T]

Just to reassure carers who are looking for a CH for their relatives;my Husband Pete is in a CH. He is suffering from advanced ALz and bi-polar. To say the least he can be explosive at times

Regular visitors to TP will have read my posts and know Pete's full story so I won't repeat it but I wish to agree with Saffie and Jeany that there are CH's out there which are homely and have professional carers who are very talented at their jobs. Sure there are tears but also a lot of laughter. It really is no longer a case of being in 'God's waiting room'.

Lexy I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience of a CH. Did you report what you found to the CQC?

Many people seem to think that Dementia/Care homes are a place of safety, this is certainly not the case, statistically I think more accidents happen in care homes than when a person is in their own home.


Where did you see these statistics? I would like to take a look at them if possible.

I know my Husbands CH is a place of safety-perhaps I'm 'lucky'

Take care

Lyn T

 

[Saffie]

To be honest, I have never come accross a home termed ' a dementia home'.
I know of homes, both care and Nursing ones, that do or don't accept resident who are suffering from dementia but never one exclusively for dementia. None is described thus in the book of homes our county council publishes.

Contrary to your supposition, I have probably read as and seen as many reports about care homes as anyone else but these are the extreme cases. It's like saying that all hospitals are bad because of what we have read about some treatment in some hospitals. The same with generalising about standards in schools. There are good and bad in all things in life. As Jeany has said, sweeping statements are really not helpful, especially when options are limited.

My husband is in a nursing home which, being EMI registered, accepts residents with dementia or he wouldn't be there. I would, of course, rather he was at home and fought hard for him to return home. I won't bore others by going over old ground as to why this happened but he is well cared for, his nursing care is above reproach and though nothing is life is perfect, I really have no major complaints.

I hope Tony, that you are successful in finding the best care for your mother-in-law, whether it is at home or in a care home.Best wishes.

 

[Saffie]

I suppose it just depends on how fastidious you are.

I beg your pardon?!

 

[LYN T]

I am not saying care at home is brilliant because it isn't always the case but if you are not satisfied with the care agency you can always complain and ask for another service provider.

Your experiences of dementia homes have obviously been very different to mine and you have obviously never watched any of the current affairs programmes regarding some of the appauling things that go on in care homes,



There have also been a number of current affairs programs which show appalling care in a person's home by care agency staff.

Whenever I am aware of such programs I watch them

Take care

Lyn T

 

[lexy]

Just to reassure carers who are looking for a CH for their relatives;my Husband Pete is in a CH. He is suffering from advanced ALz and bi-polar. To say the least he can be explosive at times

Regular visitors to TP will have read my posts and know Pete's full story so I won't repeat it but I wish to agree with Saffie and Jeany that there are CH's out there which are homely and have professional carers who are very talented at their jobs. Sure there are tears but also a lot of laughter. It really is no longer a case of being in 'God's waiting room'.

Lexy I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience of a CH. Did you report what you found to the CQC?

Many people seem to think that Dementia/Care homes are a place of safety, this is certainly not the case, statistically I think more accidents happen in care homes than when a person is in their own home.


Where did you see these statistics? I would like to take a look at them if possible.

I know my Husbands CH is a place of safety-perhaps I'm 'lucky'

Take care

Lyn T

yes I did complain to the CQC on more than one occasion, the home I was complaining about was an expensive 3 star home, unfortunately sometime later the CQC was in the news for not doing their job properly probably due to lack of funding and I think someone else has now been put in charge of this organisation. This particular home featured in the local newspaper as did another one owned by the same person for poor care. Perhaps I should have said I COULD not recommend a dementia home because I only know the ones I had dealings with and also because everyone with dementia is different.

The home my dear mum died in was much better, they were kind to me and my mum but it was also in a different county to the others. I think if the NHS are paying over £800 a week (of taxpayers money) a person has a right to receive a good standard of care, sadly this is, in my experience not always the case.