Should I do something?

[60's child]

Yesterday I went round to Mum's who lives next door and found a man (who sells frozen fish) just completing a sale for £150... Now Mum obviously agreed to buy it and yet I am concerned that this man was taking advantage. Very difficult to prove. He has been before and last time when I saw him I asked him to call me before he called round and I would let him know if Mum needed anything. He agreed to do this. When he saw me yesterday he said " You are always out!" in a very jovial manner. We are not always out and we do have an answer phone.
I feel he was taking advantage of Mums very obvious memory problem. No way would a woman living on her own need that much fish. Her freezer was full and he was having to remove it from the boxes to get it all in anyway. I did not want to challenge him in front of Mum as she was very pleased to have "contributed" to mealtimes as she always eats with us.
Does anyone have any advice on whether I should act on this ie call him or the franchise. It is difficult to prove he was taking advantage. I do not want to confirm with him Mums memory problem as he may still turn up when I am not in. Mum is on her own when I am at work.
It has left me with a very uneasy feeling.

 

[Carabosse]

If your mums memory isn't too bad can you just tell her that you have bought fish and she doesn't need to get this time.
Does this guy come on a particular day/ time if so can you try and be there if not you another neighbour? If it happens again I would call his boss and explain what's been going on and if it doesn't stop you will contact the Police and inform the papers so they can alert the rest of the public to his behaviour, I'm sure when they hear that their profits could be affected they will do something?

 

[Witzend]

How did your mum pay for it? If with a credit card or cheque book is there any way you can remove this, or give her one you have cancelled? She will otherwise be vulnerable to other people selling at the door. But I know it can be very difficult when people still want to feel in control of their money.

It may not be at all obvious to the man that your mum has problems. It is a difficult call, but I think I would tell the company that your mum is not able to judge what she needs and on no account are they to call again. I would try to say it nicely but very firmly, so that they know you mean business.

I know there are stickers to say We do Not Buy Anything At The Door So Don't Ask - but from what I've heard the unscrupulous will ignore these anyway.

 

[Noorza]

If he is doing this to you Mum he'll be doing it to others also. He's been told to go through you and he has ignored that, that's not on.

I'd call the company, in fact I'd write to them, explaining that the company or their representatives, naming this individual in particular, are not to visit your mother under any circumstances and if it happens again you will be seeking an injunction against that representative on your mother's behalf and will be requesting that they include an exclusion zone around your mother's property and powers of arrest attached.

Then as others have said you'll be alerting the media.

These are normally for situations where there is domestic violence so that people can't go near another's home and just to be found in the exclusion zone is enough to have them arrested.

I would be firm and strong in this, as I feel extremely uneasy about this and wouldn't trust him not to come back not representing the company but as an individual to extort more money from your Mum.

People like him make me sick, who buys, other than restaurants, £150 worth of fish. It's the same as if they were cowboy builders, same principles apply.

 

[meme]

trust your instinct..he is deliberately not checking with you first...I would get him alone either face to face or on the phone and tell him not to call on your mother again unless he has spoken to you first...or you will be taking this further and reporting him. No explanation nescessary....

 

[Hengell]

Mum had a similar problem when she was living on her own with a local grocerman delivering to the house, he would call in and oversell food a lot of the items the dates were up or nearly up, there was a lot of wastage. The peoblem I had was soon as I stopped him coming mum would be on the phone asking him to come up because she would forget she nad food in the freezer. It finally came to a head when she said she hadaid for things she never had with vasc dementia its obviously hard to say, I went up again to the shop explained that she was making accusations due to the illness and better if he did not call as she wanted to call the Police on him. He did say that she nad paid for some food in advance with him so it was partly right what she had said, anyway he nevercalled again after that, although I did hear other people memtion he does the same and trading standards were.called in.

 

[CINDYJANE]

Noorza's advice sounds very sensible. It is dreadful to think there are people out there taking advantage like this.
On a different angle, two years ago I bought a new TV for my mother (over the phone with my debit card), which was delivered and installed by a local company. I spoke to mum later and she told me she had paid the man cash for it....... Now did she or did she just think she did , and/or the man refused to take the money? We have no proof, only the hope that this man was honest.
Following this incident, I checked round mum's house and found lots of cash squirrelled away in drawers. I took the decision to remove this money and paid it back into her bank account. So this has removed this possibilty recurring.

 

[kingmidas1962]

Even if it is completely innocent (which it doesn't sound like it is) a phone call to the company will serve either as a warning that you are on to him, or at the very least will reinforce what you asked for, which was to contact you first. You have already asked him to do this, so he can't say he hasn't been told.

IF he calls you, and you are not available to confirm if your mum needs anything, then he DOES NOT VISIT HER. Simple as that! You can drop a hint by saying that you have heard of things like this happening to vulnerable elderly folk and you're sure that they would be as concerned as you are, to think that someone might think it of them! That should touch a nerve - if it doesn't, someone else can provide a better service ....

 

[FifiMo]

The people to investigate this is your local trading standards office. They will know if there are other complaints against this guy. The other thing about things like frozen fish is that you do not have any reassurance about the chain of the items. Have they been frozen then defrosted then frozen again. What kind of van does he use to deliver the food? Is it a properly refrigerated van? We had a company selling frozen meat but the sellers were selling out of the boot of their car! Needless to say they are not around these days. This is not just about the money, as the exploitation could go much further and she is receiving dodgy food too.

Fiona

 

[60's child]

Thanks all
Carabosse, Unfortunatly Mum would not remember she has plenty of fish and he seems to call at varying times.
Witzend, Mum pays cash. She is very insistend on keeping large amounts of cash in the house. She gets very anxious if she has no cash and does not always remember her pin number for her card.
Noozra, I think this is in my mind that he may come back and extort money from Mum.
Thanks to Meme, Hengell, Cindyjane, and Kingmidas as well. I really feel that I am right to be concerned now with everyones replies so will do as suggested and call the company with media threat...
Fifimo, Local trading standards is also a good idea.
You are all great, thanks again.

 

[Noorza]

My sister called on a Salesman to visit Mum last year, booked the appointment and then left Mum to deal with him on her own, not informing me. I've drummed it into Mum over the years to sign nothing unless she calls me first.

This crook, who rents space in a major department store so he looks more trustworthy, was about to get her to sign up to pay £1,000 and hand over her disability scooter on top for a wheelchair I sourced elsewhere for $600.

She called me as was getting scared, I had to leave my meeting, go straight to her and when I saw who it was, I was horrified. It was the same man who had signed her up for a 12 month interest free deal on a scooter but if you were one single day late in paying the balance the cost DOUBLED. That was when she was well enough to go out by herself.

He was telling mum he wanted to see her other daughter and not me. I think it was something to do with me telling him to sling his hook. I told him I was dealing with mum's affairs and not to call her again or he'd have me to deal with. He left protesting his innocence.

It's sad but there are many people out there who will prey on the vulnerable, when we read on here how many family members will do just that, it's no shock that strangers can't be trusted either.

 

[Nebiroth]

The law is much more proactive towards unsolicited and doorstep sales, consumers have far more rights now. Also, there tends to be a dim view of contracts that are signed by people who can be shown to have diminished mental capacity.

I would tellthe salesman that your mum is classed as a "vulnerable adult" and is therefore registered with social services, they run background checks on callers "because so many elderly people get preyed upon by unscupulous crooks, isn't it awful?" and therefore, would he mind giving his company's phone number and address so that the local authority can get in contact please?

I am willing to bet this would be enough to send anyone shady running a mile. If they are legit but taking advantage then they will soon stop!

 

[60's child]

Thank you all
I like your idea Nebiroth. I just feel very sad that this is so common. I live next door to Mum so can monitor it to a certain degree. Many people do not have people looking out for them nearby. Give me a sick feeling inside.

 

[Noorza]

Personally I don't tell strangers that mum is a vulnerable adult, my fear is that the unscrupulous would then target her as an easy touch. She once gave all her bank details to a "nice man" at the door. That time is was a legit charity but she didn't know it at the time.

I would threaten them with social services, the police, their employers or whatever else I felt would put the fear of God into them though.

It is too common sadly, mum even had a part of her front garden nicked by a neighbour for their use without her permission, the gall of some people is incredible. I've fought that many battles for her I've lost count now.

 

[Noorza]

I worked as a home help for the elderly.

One lady i worked for was very lonely,she waited for the postman,the refuse collectors,anyone that she could talk to.

I arrived unexpectedly one morning,she was giving the postman a £20 tip for posting her letter.I asked why she was giving him money,she said 'i do it every day i have post.'

I asked him why he was taking it,and took the £20 note out of his hand.He was quite angry,but he knew i was angrier!She'd given him hundreds of pounds.

I found out she was 'tipping' everyone,she was angry with me that i stopped her,but not one person refused to take her money.

She phoned me one evening because she couldn't get her TV to work.OH and i went to help,and she had the remote control upside down,she offered my husband £40.

This is how easy it is to prey on the elderly.

My mum tipped someone who came to help me finish off the decorating £100 a day by cheque. Thank goodness he was a good man and gave the cheques to me saying he wanted to be paid for the job and no more. What a good man.

 

[beech mount]

Cast your minds back, a number of years ago there was a man exposed by, i think, Watchdog who was also selling fish door to door and delivering more than people had ordered and insting on being paid extra, could be the same man. Anyone remember?
John.

 

[oldfella]

This happened to my father, it went from a friendly face popping in, to dad giving him money, to the friendly face stealing dads identity and costing him thousands of pounds and valuable things being taken from his house. It was only by accident we found out what was going on, the police became involved and it turned out the friendly face had been inviting drug addicts to visit dad. It went to court and the friendly face was given a warning and the drug addicts getting away with it. Dad lost all of the things he had left of my mum can't believe these people get away with this sort of thing.

 

[Miss A]

Hi 60s child, I very sorry to hear what has happened. I'm not surprised it has left you feeling uneasy, I have been in a similar situation myself with my Dad. If I were you I would certainly contact his boss. You have asked him not to contact your mum directly and he should adhere to that request. I don't like thinking bad of people but it does sound a bit suspect. Act on your gut instinct...if it makes you feel uneasy there is a chance there's something wrong with the situation. Xx


Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point mobile app

 

[kingmidas1962]

I worked as a home help for the elderly.

One lady i worked for was very lonely,she waited for the postman,the refuse collectors,anyone that she could talk to.

I arrived unexpectedly one morning,she was giving the postman a £20 tip for posting her letter.I asked why she was giving him money,she said 'i do it every day i have post.'

I asked him why he was taking it,and took the £20 note out of his hand.He was quite angry,but he knew i was angrier!She'd given him hundreds of pounds.

I found out she was 'tipping' everyone,she was angry with me that i stopped her,but not one person refused to take her money.

She phoned me one evening because she couldn't get her TV to work.OH and i went to help,and she had the remote control upside down,she offered my husband £40.

This is how easy it is to prey on the elderly.

My mil who doesn't have diagnosed dementia but does have memory and behavioral problems is always tipping people too! I've lost count of the tips and gifts she's given people - even once sending a bouquet of flowers and some chocolates to the doctors receptionist because she 'listened to her'. Her perception of what is 'normal' behaviour is pretty skewed but as you say people don't turn down free cash even if they don't feel they're deserving of it ...

 

[Ann Mac]

This is an issue that makes me absolutely furious - it was such a major problem, before Mil moved in with us, and it was so difficult to deal with. About 2 years or so ago, by chance, we discovered she had handed over a cheque for nearly £2,000, to pay for a bath hoist - which was totally unsuitable, and could actually have been dangerous for someone with memory problems. Mil was under the impression that the 'man' she bought it off was from 'the hospital' - he was actually just a cold caller who had knocked on her door. We thankfully found out in time to cancel the cheque, but it turned out that Mil had also signed something agreeing that her details could be shared with '3rd parties', and it more or less opened the floodgates to a host of companies who she was unable to deal with, and we often had to spend a lot of time trying to cancel agreements and get money back for her Purchases included £1,500 worth of massage equipment, £4,000 solar panels (thankfully stopped before they could install), one particularly determined double glazing firm, who even when told that Mil had AZ/dementia, continued to call her, from different numbers each time, and where it took the threat of police action to get them to back off. In addition, she signed up for magazine subscriptions, numerous insurance polices (she had 3 different ones to cover her boiler breaking down, and at least 3 more to cover her sky box) and - sad but true - we discovered at the time she moved in with us, that she had also signed up to contribute to maybe a dozen charities on a monthly basis, which actually added up to quite a large sum every month and which she had no recollection of doing. A notice saying 'no cold callers' on her window, she removed on the grounds that she could 'tell them herself she didn't want stuff - she isn't stupid, you know!'. I phoned BT, to try and stop the phone calls, and because she had agreed to have her details shared, the only thing they could offer was a piece of equipment where she could 'choose' not to take calls that might come from cold callers, or to change her number - she wouldn't have remembered how to use the first, and a change of phone numbers for someone with memory problems is no use as a solution at all I've since read about equipment that we could have bought to block likely numbers, but BT didn't tell us about that - BT also cold called her themselves, by the way, and 'sold' her not only a BT vision box and package (when she already had a full sky package), but also a home hub and internet package - when she doesn't posses or even know how to use a computer or laptop.

We also found out that neighboring kids, two in particular, were regularly knocking on her door and offering to do jobs - and Mil was handing over everything from £1 coins to £20, to say 'Thank you' - another neighbor has since told us that these kids could be seen 'sweeping her path' two or three times a day

We found other items around the house, that she couldn't remember buying, that were largely useless but probably expensive (GHD straighteners, for example - her hair is short and wavy!) and that we could find no paper trail for, and so could do nothing about.

I just wish cold calling could be just banned completely