What purpose do these memory tests serve?

[misselainei]

Excuse me for butting, it's my first time on a thread!

My 87 year old Dad is my Mum's carer. She is over five years in to dementia and the Mum I had is long gone. She is still having memory tests, last time she took a bit dive in the score and picked up a couple of points this time. There is definitely no improvement in her abilities, she is doubly incontinent and has to be encouraged and bribed to change her pads, when guided in to the bathroom she doesn't know what to do so my Dad supervises every move she makes, down to putting soap on the flannel and so on. We can only think that the test is for statics.

 

[garnuft]

They are to measure the cognitive ability of the person at the time they take the test.

I would do differently on different days of the month.

This is a test to try to find out about memory retention.

It's not a fine art, it's a gauge.

Too much weight is given to it, mostly by the families of the people who are encountering problems.

If you think there is a problem, leading to a test, leading to a diagnosis, you have the answer to your questions.

In my opinion, accept the diagnosis and the prognosis and move forward with it.

 

[avian999]

Memory Test

Sorry but these memory tests are very important for a person with dementia the test is required in order that the Doctor or GP can prescribe the medication Donepezil Hydrochloride no test no medication which for some of us with dementia is very thing that keeps us stable and live active lives

My husband had a memory test this week, not the first but about 3 weeks ago I noticed a change in him almost felt that the lights had gone out with him, so I rang my local guy and he came out and now I'm told that he cannot register any information that I give him..I'm glad he was tested because I thought that he just wasn't listening to me. Now we have the chance of getting some medication and maybe a CT scan. I know the meds won't cure anything but I would like him to hold on to what he's got for as long as possible...

 

[isti]

Mini mental

The best tests to determine the stage of dementia and performance ability is not the mini mental but the Brief cognitive rating scale and the Allen cognitive levels which are administer by speech and occupational therapists.

 

[Izzy]

Too much weight is given to it, mostly by the families of the people who are encountering problems.

In my opinion, accept the diagnosis and the prognosis and move forward with it.

Yes I probably give too much weight to it. I have always accepted the diagnosis (which was 12 years ago) and have tried to move forward with it. This doesn't change the fact that I hate listening to and watching my husband look uncomfortable and upset when he knows he can't answer these questions every 6 months. He may not have a lot if insight into his disease but it does nothing for his self esteem. I hate the whole process.

 

[1954]

I have no intention of taking MIL for any more memory tests. She is not on any medication for her dementia. She did have donepezil for a while but she was so aggressive on it we stopped it. Plus the memory nurse here stated he would never recommend it for her type of dementia

She lives with us so the tests serve no purpose. She too looks crest fallen when asked the questions and has no idea of the answers-I feel it humiliates her. BUT I do understand those who hang on them. I suppose we are all different.

 

[catsalsus]

Useful

I didn't find the tests very useful for my dad as he didn't even understand the questions half the time, but I think it has been good for my mum as they have been able to track if there has been a decline. I wasn't particularly impressed with the first Dr but the second one she saw kept going back to some of the questions as he knew she knew the answers and persevered until she could answer them.

 

[1954]

May we find them of no value because MIL lives with us so we don't need anyone to tell us she is worse. It is blatantly obvious to us!

 

[dor1954]

Attendance Allowance plus other benefits

Sorry but these memory tests are very important for a person with dementia the test is required in order that the Doctor or GP can prescribe the medication Donepezil Hydrochloride no test no medication which for some of us with dementia is very thing that keeps us stable and live active lives

Hi. By having the assessment for memory, plus blood test, plus ECG, plus brain scan my father has now received Donepezil to help him to get no worse, has had his AA increased to full rate, and presently pays zero council tax as he lives alone. These are considerable benefits to him. He now receives this precisely because we studied what CAN be done, no-one came to tell us or to offer, we had to find out ourselves.
Dad now can afford holidays with us and other positives. I would say jump through the hoops and get the boxes ticked
He also discovered that he was B12 deficient which accounted for many symptoms, in older people its damage mY be irreversible.

 

[jeannius]

assessments and memory tests

I agree with you these tests are not helpful when someone seems lucid one moment and not the next. I think the NHS needs to get its head together with these and formulate another way of assessing a client. I found it frustrating when mum was assessed that they did it, i never received the results, they only let GP know as he requested it, and left me to it. I think the system is disgusting and needs overhauling for all involved. A regular assessment needs completing , say every six months, a year is too long but I guess the mental health teams do not have the resources to do this. I think the Alzheimers Society needs to have more input with the NHS and stand up for dementia patients and their carers.

 

[Countryboy]

I agree with you these tests are not helpful when someone seems lucid one moment and not the next. I think the NHS needs to get its head together with these and formulate another way of assessing a client. I found it frustrating when mum was assessed that they did it, i never received the results, they only let GP know as he requested it, and left me to it. I think the system is disgusting and needs overhauling for all involved. A regular assessment needs completing , say every six months, a year is too long but I guess the mental health teams do not have the resources to do this. I think the Alzheimers Society needs to have more input with the NHS and stand up for dementia patients and their carers.

Well obviously it depends on your medical provider I have three tests a year, two tests with an Occupational Therapist and one with my Consultant, if I came off the medication Donepezil ( Aricept ) I wouldn’t have to have any tests at all

 

[Nick99]

Wot

My father in laws memory is just about non existent, constant repeating himself, asking the same questions over and over again, doesn't know where his meals come from, doesn't know he takes tablets, but he does very well in memory tests. He hides money, medicines, hearing aid batteries and then says he never had any. But he doctor can sit and have a conversation with him and my FIL is very plausible, saying he is doing very well for his age. As soon as the doctor has gone he asks us who was that, what did he want, etc. He immediately forgot the conversation he has just had and five minutes later he has forgotten that the doctor has ever visited!!!

He knows his name, sometimes knows his date of birth and being very clever he can spell words backwards if asked to. He has a big clock with the date and day and also shows morning or afternoon and with prompts to the clock can tell you what day it is. This is allowed in the test. I am very concerned that if we were not there to tell the doctor how bad he is that he would be given the all clear. It is the family that know the situation no matter what the tests suggest.

 

[Countryboy]

Sorry but I think your missing the point the reason for the test is, for the Consultant at the memory clinic to ascertain weather the person with dementia would get some benefit from the medication he then sends a report to your GP who actually prescribes that medication, if I was at a stage with my dementia that I couldn’t use my computer for instance something I done since 1986 possibly the medication wouldn’t be beneficial to me either therefore I wouldn't be required to have a test

 

[oaklanelabyrint]

Donepezil only for a tiny few

Sorry but these memory tests are very important for a person with dementia the test is required in order that the Doctor or GP can prescribe the medication Donepezil Hydrochloride no test no medication which for some of us with dementia is very thing that keeps us stable and live active lives

Reading this made me appreciate that for a very few maybe there is medical "help", but actually isn't it for a tiny few?. My dad is 92 - he still lives at home with my (younger) mum, and she and i and a fours hours a week extra helper surround him in a bubble of live for the time he has left - there is no suggestion that there would be any medical help, the testing was humiliating and pointlesss and at the end of the day dementia is a terminal diagnosis - even the above mentioned drug only slows it down for a while? maybe i'm just not well informed, but it seems to me that the most important thing is not be alone - and as other people have said it isn't memory, its anxiety and knowing deep inside that you've lost your moorings . . and one needs help not medication . .

 

[carolgodfrey]

when my dad had a recent test he scored 5 higher than last year???? though dads memory is so much worse??? i really think a longer, more practical test could be given. ask family/carers what they think, do simple, every day questions that have been previously answered by family/carers, what did you have for breakfast, lunch, tea ( my dad says the same for each one) has anybody called today? (we visit every day) though dad doesn't remember. he always says the same thing, i don't think so. when dad had his test the memory clinic were thrilled with his "progress" we came out, and in the car dad said, where are we going? i replied home , we have been to the memory clinic. dads repy? why have we been there? no recollection of the test at all. it is not a true view of how dad is at all.

 

[Grandma Joan]

when my dad had a recent test he scored 5 higher than last year???? though dads memory is so much worse??? i really think a longer, more practical test could be given. ask family/carers what they think, do simple, every day questions that have been previously answered by family/carers, what did you have for breakfast, lunch, tea ( my dad says the same for each one) has anybody called today? (we visit every day) though dad doesn't remember. he always says the same thing, i don't think so. when dad had his test the memory clinic were thrilled with his "progress" we came out, and in the car dad said, where are we going? i replied home , we have been to the memory clinic. dads reply? why have we been there? no recollection of the test at all. it is not a true view of how dad is at all.

I so agree Carol, similar scenario here. And I think with so many sufferers. My MIL has no recollection, of anything that happened more than a minute ago mostly. I could give so many examples it would bore you. However if you meet her for the first time she is well spoken and convincing and you wouldn't know! In the memory test she scores around 25/30 which normally wouldn't justify medication but because we live in a small town and her GP knows people we/she knows who all comment on how she has changed over the last 18 months then the GP was prepared to prescribe Aricept. We were lucky. She lives alone so hopefully this will slow down the inevitable progress of the disease and keep her living independently for longer which is what we all want for her.

 

[merlin]

Having read this particular blog and not been on the forum for some time I see nothing much has changed since I took my wife to the memory clinic about 10 years ago. Then she was in aggressive mode, she tore up the papers, trashed everything around the room and then marched out of the clinic.

No I would agree memory tests are not a lot of use when as one writer has pointed out, the problem is obvious. Perhaps at a much earlier stage to test for signs of MCI they might be of use but then again in many cases such as mine, you may well have the difficulty of getting the person to first admit there is a problem and then getting them to the clinic.

Merlin

 

[1954]

I am glad we went to the memory clinic to start with (as one wonders if it me going mad) and had it confirmed the fact that MIL had dementia and offered medication (although it made her aggressive) but now its no point to it at all. If she lived on her own then I think I would feel differently to the memory scores but not when she lives with us

Kairen x

 

[woodsnake]

catch 22

I would also like a psychiatrist to try the test, not just once, but a few times. Be interesting to compare!

Hi all,
I'm new to this forum, so bear with me if I make any technical mistakes.
My dad is being cajoled into having mental capacity tests by my sister and his doctor. He has been told he is going into hospital for "some tests" but he does not know that the tests are to ascertain whether he has dementia and when I told him he said he definitely didn't want to go for these tests and feels fine.
There is obviously something going on with his memory since his wife died 2 years ago, but he has in my mind a very mild case of memory and cognitive function loss at this time. I notice that when he is being shouted at or put under pressure by others his impairment and confusion grows. His condition is so much affected by where he is, with whom and how they are treating him. I cannot imagine how these tests can possibly ascertain any degree of accuracy since environmental conditions are so key to dads wellness or unwellness, as they are to mine and everyones. When we are under stress our performance plummets.
Under the mental capacity act I understand that a person should not be treated as unable to make a decision just because they make an unwise decision. Should this not extend to whether or not he goes for tests? It's a bit of a catch 22 isn't it?

My dads eccentricity is not as advanced as many of the loved ones described in this link. He gets neurotic about the birds pooping on his car and carries around a briefcase tied together with sellotape and bunjee cord, he can't remember things, but he is not aggressive and not a danger to himself, as he rightly points out "I'm not running down the valley in my underpants am I?"
I just don't know what to do about it. Doesn't he have the right to decide? I'm new to this and feel overwhelmed and out of my depth. Any advice?

 

[stanleypj]

Hi woodsnake. and welcome.

I think you are absolutely right in believing that the way a person is treated often has a big impact on the symptoms of cognitive impairment they may have. There is no way that he should be being shouted at and put under pressure.

You are right also that the tests, like most if not all tests, can only tell us about 'performance on the day'. I'm a sceptic about the value of these tests and, indeed, about what often passes for diagnosis. I expect you'll have responses that will redress the balance.

You are right as well in believing that he has every right to know why he is being tested. And if when all the arguments have been out to him he doesn't want to be tested, I would say anyone who tests him may well be acting unlawfully. If your sister and the doctor can persuade him to be tested, that is a different matter.

You could ask your sister and the doctor about possible outcomes and, very importantly, what they think might be done to help him if the outcome is a dementia diagnosis.

Take care