A Beginner’s Look into…CHC (Continuing Health Care)

JPG1

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Jul 16, 2008
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Thanks for that, Caroline. Now we can put some meat on the bones...

That would tie in with the guidelines, which says if you have 2 severe , you qualify.

Can I ask what the severe and high categories were in your mum's case? And can you describe how she was in relation to each of them - I think that's what we really want to know. What does "Severe" and "High" mean in relation to everyday life.

For instance, does double incontinence count as a High? (top score for that category)

Chemmy, it is not that simple, and you cannot reduce it to such simplicity.

One person could be doubly incontinent and score a High, whereas another person could also be doubly incontinent and NOT score a High.

The scores that any one applicant achieves (for want of a better word) will have no bearing on another applicant's outcome where CHC is concerned.

It is not based on any medical diagnosis, either, but on 'needs'.

The whole process is geared more towards 'physical' needs, rather than the needs of dementia that may not be physical, although some are.

The whole process is subjective. That's where the postcode lottey comes in.
 

JPG1

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Interesting....did the assessors explain why it was refused, because that's the nitty-gritty detail I'm sure we'd all like to understand?

That is the very kind of 'nitty-gritty' detail that is never likely to be forthcoming, so you may not be able to understand why.

And, in any case, it wouldn't necessarily be the 'assessors' job to explain why. It was the case in many instances where the 'recommendation' was for CHC to be granted, but it was the PCT who overturned that 'recommendation'.

That is why so many applications that are turned down result in the whole appeals process, which is even more cumbersome and complex and intense than was the original CHC application.

The book says that the PCT should not overturn the 'recommendation' that comes at the end of the whole assessment process, without exceptional circumstances being found, although the PCT can return a case back to the MDT for further work. That could include the whole rubbish of the preceding assessment; the documentation being found to be insufficient/lacking; missing assessments that might be relevant; absent evidence of relevant 'notes/records; or even where it could result in 'either' body acting unlawfully etc etc etc.

But, 'should' is a very clever word! The continuing healthcare postcode lottery is in place.

It can take years to work the way through the reasons for refusal, via the appeals process.

If it was straightforward, it wouldn't have taken solicitors years to achieve a successful outcome, would it?
 
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Chemmy

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Nov 7, 2011
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JPG, I'm really grateful for your input and expertise on this but you're way ahead of many of us in your understanding of the issues and I want to work this through at my own pace and ask whatever questions I want for clarification.

I understand you will probably find this frustrating, but please bear with me. I am still interested in the specifics of Winda and Caroline's assessments :)
 

JPG1

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Jul 16, 2008
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OK, Chemmy, your message received and understood.

I will back out of this thread.

I failed to take on board that it was a learning exercise for you alone, and although I feel that you may cause more confusion by your desire for a tick-box exercise, I will try to resist any temptation to clarify any confused thinking.

Before departing, you said that you were bothered that you cannot find out via Google much about what a primary health need could be. So, I offer this for you to consider.

In simple terms (not a legal definition) an individual has a primary health need if, having taken account of all their needs (following completion of the DST), it can be said that the main aspects or majority part of the care they require is focused on addressing and/or preventing health needs.

Primary health need is not about the reason why someone requires care or support, nor is it based on their diagnosis; it is about their overall actual day-to-day care needs taken in their totality. Indeed it could be argued that most adults who require a package of health and social care support do so for a health-related reason (e.g. because they have had an accident or have an illness or disability).

It is the level and type of needs themselves that have to be considered when determining eligibility for NHS continuing healthcare.
 

Saffie

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Mar 26, 2011
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Near Southampton
Sorry Chemmy - I read the title as you presenting us with a 'beginner's guide' not the other way round! Hope you can make commonsense of it all - more than I can!:)
 

Chemmy

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Nov 7, 2011
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Sorry Chemmy - I read the title as you presenting us with a 'beginner's guide' not the other way round! Hope you can make commonsense of it all - more than I can!:)

No, that was never my intention. I'm just a layman trying to get some things straight in my own head. If people would rather I did that elsewhere, and feel I'm adding to their confusion about the subject, then I'm happy to bring this thread to a close.
 

hopeful56

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Jun 17, 2009
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Maybe!

Hi JJ and JPG1 ,

The nursing assessor told me that in order to qualify a person needed to be placed in the shaded areas. Could it be that he was lying? This never occurred to me.

It could either be incompetence or a deliberate ploy. Maybe you should go back and explain how it should be done! Or contact the PCT CHC team and ask for someone who is properly trained to complete the assessment.

JJ
 

nmintueo

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Jun 28, 2011
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OK, so we've now established that the Department of Health has two different documents on it's website,

NHS Continuing Healthcare Checklist

DST (Decision Support Tool)

using different scoring systems, which seemingly can be used to establish whether or not to refer the person for full assessment.

I wonder if the DST is the full version that some authorities use at the outset instead of the simpler one? Perhaps someone who knows could clarify?

Well, I can't exactly clarify, but here are some related documents you may well want to look at.

NHS continuing healthcare and NHS-funded nursing care: public information booklet
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...tions/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_106230

Since it's a 'public information booklet', I expect that would be relevant to anyone after a 'beginner's guide'.

Beyond that, and going way beyond a beginner's guide, there is a ton of documents you can unearth by searching at http://www.dh.gov.uk, including:

National Framework for Continuing Healthcare and NHS-funded Nursing Care: Resource pack 2 - Understanding the tools and the processes
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...tions/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_078903

which says:

This resource pack is to support the implementation of the National Framework for NHS Continuing Healthcare and NHS funded Nursing Care and its supporting tools, i.e. the decision support tool, checklist, fast track tool, and the NHS funded Nursing care workbook and template documentation.

From 2007, that doesn't look like the most recent information available, but based on a quick look is the first thing I could find that directly addresses understanding those tools.

There is a more recent edition of the national framework at

The national framework for NHS continuing healthcare and NHS-funded nursing care - July 2009 (revised)
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...tions/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_103162

which includes:

NHS Continuing Healthcare: Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...tions/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_131084

and from 2010 there's this (aimed at people working in the system, rather than general-public 'beginners') -

NHS continuing healthcare practice guidance
http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...tions/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_115133


See also:

Tagged: NHS Continuing Healthcare
http://www.dh.gov.uk/health/tag/nhs-continuing-healthcare

and, while we're here:

One week left to comment on the draft Care and Support Bill
12 October, 2012
http://www.dh.gov.uk/health/2012/10/week-bill/
 
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winda

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Oct 17, 2011
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So, Winda, are you able to tell us the scores your husband got in each category when he was refused? Please don't feel you have to if it's too personal, but it would be useful to look at some real results.

Hi Chemmy,

These were the results of my husband's assessment:-

3xHigh, 3xmedium, 2xLow and 3xNo needs.

It all depended on the predictability/unpredictability of my husband's behaviour.
He was turned down because they decided that his behaviour could be managed with 2 carers for personal care and plenty of reassurance to manage his agitation.
I didn't appeal as once he was in the NH they were able to manage him very well.

His needs have now increased in other areas and I am having another assessment done.
 

Saffie

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Mar 26, 2011
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Near Southampton
No, that was never my intention. I'm just a layman trying to get some things straight in my own head. If people would rather I did that elsewhere, and feel I'm adding to their confusion about the subject, then I'm happy to bring this thread to a close
.
Not at all Chemmy, you have perfect have a thread for what you wish. I just didn't realise where you were going with it at first. Now that I do, I can perfectly understand what, and why you, are posting. :)
 

winda

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Oct 17, 2011
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Nottinghamshire
It could either be incompetence or a deliberate ploy. Maybe you should go back and explain how it should be done! Or contact the PCT CHC team and ask for someone who is properly trained to complete the assessment.

JJ

I am very puzzled about why I was told this but as I am having another assessment done anyway on the basis of my husband's increased needs, I am no longer interested in the initial assessment.
I wasn't surprised that he did not qualify as his needs in areas other than Behaviour were not that high.
 

Egeon

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Oct 12, 2012
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I wasn't surprised that he did not qualify as his needs in areas other than Behaviour were not that high.
I think you will find, as in my situation, that they downplay the domains as much as possible and if you state otherwise they will ignore you or give you misleading/untrue information as to why you are wrong.
 

SisterAct

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Jul 5, 2011
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Sorry it is so long - hope this helps (Taken from Liverpool PCT site) Phew!!!

1. CONTINUING CARE

NHS continuing healthcare is free care outside of hospital that is arranged and funded by the NHS. It is only available for people who need ongoing healthcare and meet the eligibility criteria described below. NHS continuing healthcare is sometimes called fully funded NHS care. The information on this page relates to NHS continuing healthcare for adults. Children and young people under 18 can be eligible for a similar type of care, but there are differences in the way this is organized.

Where is care provided?
NHS continuing healthcare can be provided in any setting, including a care home, hospice or the home of the person you look after. If someone in a care home gets NHS continuing healthcare, it will cover their care home fees, including the cost of accommodation, personal care and healthcare costs. If NHS continuing healthcare is provided in the home of the person you look after, it will cover personal care and healthcare costs. It may also include support for you as a carer.

Eligibility
To be eligible for NHS continuing healthcare, the person you look after must be assessed as having a "primary health need" and have a complex medical condition and substantial and ongoing care needs. Not everyone with a disability or long-term condition will be eligible. The assessment process is outlined below.

Guidance says that the assessment for NHS continuing healthcare should be "person centred". This means that the person being assessed should be fully involved in the assessment process. They should be kept informed, and have their views about their own needs and support taken into account. As a carer, you should also be consulted where appropriate. It’s a good idea to make it clear that you would like to participate fully in the assessment process.

A decision about eligibility should usually be made within 28 days of an assessment being carried out.

If they are ineligible
If the person you care for doesn’t qualify for NHS continuing healthcare, their local authority will be responsible for assessing their care needs and providing services if they are eligible.

However, if they don’t qualify for NHS continuing healthcare but are assessed as having healthcare or nursing needs, they may still receive some care from the NHS. For someone who lives in their own home, this could be provided as part of a joint package of care, where some services come from the NHS and some from social services. If the person you care for moves into a nursing home, the NHS may contribute towards their nursing care costs (see NHS-funded nursing care, below). Care services from the local authority are usually means-tested, so if the person you look after is eligible for local authority care, their finances will be assessed. Depending on their income and savings, they may need to pay towards their care costs.


What is Continuing Care?
Continuing care means care provided by health and social care professionals over an extended period of time, to meet adults’ physical or mental health needs caused by disability, accident or illness.
If you need continuing care, your care needs are likely to be complex, substantial and ongoing, caused by a disability or chronic illness, or following hospital treatment.
Who provides continuing care?
If you need continuing care, your care needs may include:
•healthcare services provided by the NHS, for example, from your GP or in hospital
•social and community care services from your local authority

Social and community care services provided by local authorities include:
•personal care at home, for example, help with bathing, dressing, getting up and going to bed
•delivery of hot or frozen meals
•day centre facilities
•care provided in a care home
Local authorities include town, city, borough, metropolitan and county councils.

Who pays for continuing care?
The funding of continuing care can be complicated.
If you are eligible for NHS continuing healthcare, your continuing care will be paid for by the NHS (also sometimes known as fully funded NHS care). If you are not eligible for NHS continuing healthcare, you may receive continuing care as part of a package funded jointly by the NHS and your local authority (sometimes known as a joint package of care). This may include NHS-funded nursing care.

There is no charge for the NHS part of a joint package of care.
Local authorities are allowed to charge for the services they provide, and most of them do so. If your local authority is part-funding your care package, you may have to pay towards the cost of their part of the care, depending on your income and savings.
NHS-funded nursing care is care provided by a registered nurse, paid for by the NHS, for people who live in a care home. Your needs will be assessed to decide if you're eligible for NHS-funded nursing care.

2. CONTINUING CARE – NHS FUNDED NURSING CARE (FNC)
Who is eligible for NHS-funded nursing care?
You should receive NHS-funded nursing care if:
•you live in a care home registered to provide nursing care, and
•you don’t qualify for NHS continuing healthcare but have been assessed as needing care from a registered nurse

The NHS will make a payment directly to the care home to fund care from registered nurses who are usually employed by the care home.

How will my needs be assessed?
If you’ve already had an assessment to see whether you’re eligible for NHS continuing healthcare, you probably won’t need another one. The assessment you’ve already had should include enough information to assess your eligibility for NHS-funded nursing care.
However, if you do need an assessment or you haven’t already had one, your primary care trust (PCT) will arrange an assessment for you.

Outcome of the assessment
If you’re eligible for NHS-funded nursing care, the NHS will arrange and fund nursing care in a care home that’s registered to provide it. Services provided by a registered nurse can include planning, supervising and monitoring nursing and healthcare tasks, as well as direct nursing care.
If you’re not eligible for NHS-funded nursing care and you don’t agree with the decision about your eligibility, you can ask your PCT to review the decision.

What is the rate of payment for NHS-funded nursing care?
NHS-funded nursing care is paid at the same rate across England. For 2011/12, the rate is £108.70 a week (standard rate).
Before 1 October 2007, there were three different levels or bands of payment for NHS-funded nursing care: low, medium and high.
If you moved into a care home before 1 October 2007, and you were on the low or medium bands, you would have been transferred to the standard rate from that date.
If you moved into a care home before 1 October 2007, and you were on the high band, NHS funded nursing care is paid at a higher rate. For 2011/12, the higher rate is £149.60 a week. You’re entitled to continue on this rate until:
•you no longer have nursing needs
•you no longer live in a care home that provides nursing
•your nursing needs have reduced and you’re no longer eligible for the high band, when you would change to the standard rate of £108.70 a week, or
•you’re entitled to NHS continuing healthcare instead

3. CONTINUING CARE - NHS CONTINUING HEALTHCARE (CHC)
For most people, the first step is to have their care needs assessed by a health or social care professional using a screening tool called the Checklist Tool.
If this screening suggests that you may be eligible for NHS continuing healthcare, a full up-to-date assessment of your needs will be arranged, using a tool called the Decision Support Tool. You will be fully involved in the assessment and decision-making process. Your views about your needs for care and support will be taken into account. If you feel that you need help to explain your views, you may want to ask a friend or relative for support.

Initial screening with the Checklist Tool
The Checklist Tool is used to decide whether you should be referred for a full assessment. It helps health and social care professionals to work out whether your care needs may be of a level or type that could entitle you to NHS continuing healthcare.
The Checklist Tool is usually completed when a nurse, doctor, other qualified healthcare professional or social worker is assessing or reviewing your health or social care needs. For example:
•a nurse or doctor could carry out the initial screening before you leave hospital
•your GP or a nurse could do the screening in your own home
•a social worker could do the screening when carrying out a community care assessment

After the initial screening, your primary care trust (PCT) will write to you to confirm whether or not you will be referred for a full assessment for NHS continuing healthcare.

Full assessment with the Decision Support Tool
If the Checklist Tool shows that you may be eligible for NHS continuing healthcare, the person who completed it will contact your PCT to arrange a full up-to-date assessment of all your care needs.
The full assessment will be carried out by a multidisciplinary team. With your permission, the assessment will include contributions from all the health and social care professionals involved in your care, to build an overall picture of your needs. In some cases, more detailed specialist assessments may be required from these professionals.
The information from your assessment will be used to complete the Decision Support Tool.
This Tool is used to decide whether your main or primary care needs relate to your health, by looking at several types of care need, such as:
Behaviour, Cognition, Psychological Needs, Communication, Mobility, Nutrition (Food & Drink), Continence, Skin (Inc Tissue Viability), Breathing, Drug Therapies & Medication, Altered States of Consciousness.

For individuals who need an urgent package of care because their condition is deteriorating rapidly, the Fast Track Tool may be used instead. This enables the PCT to arrange for care to be provided as quickly as possible.

What happens after the assessment?
The multidisciplinary team will make a recommendation to the PCT about your eligibility for NHS continuing healthcare.
 

SisterAct

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Jul 5, 2011
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I think you will find, as in my situation, that they downplay the domains as much as possible and if you state otherwise they will ignore you or give you misleading/untrue information as to why you are wrong.

I am sure you are right Egeon. The answer is evidence and to gather as much of it as you can. Not always easy I know!

Chemmy....Great idea this post:)
I have posted the above and hope it will not complicate things. I just wanted to show that Continuing Healthcare Funding (CHC) and Funded Nursing Care (FNC) both come under the umbrella of CONTINUING CARE. (Very Confusing)
We managed to get CHC for Dad this year and put a lot of hard work in. When I can I will post the Domain outcomes for Dad.

Hopeful56
I was going to get back to your PM after my break but this is the first time I have been in my own house since and I am trying to catch up. Sorry x
Polly x
 

Egeon

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Oct 12, 2012
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I am sure you are right Egeon. The answer is evidence and to gather as much of it as you can. Not always easy I know!
I had evidence... CT scan and Xray and.... ignored!!!!... nil needs for those I was producing evidence for because no evidence at 'that moment in time or very recently' :(
 

sharina

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Mar 17, 2010
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Chc

It really is a post code lottery to get CHC. If you get an assessment be prepared for quite a lot of upsetting seemingly disingenuous comments.

You need to take video evidence and maintain a diary to establish the truth.

In my mother 's case she was clearly dying . I had even rung the Social Services in floods of tears 7 days before she was assessed trying to get extra support into her carehome.

I hoped to get more care into her residential home as my father did not want her to leave there as he felt they cared for her. I also believe they cared for her. They were not a nursing home.

we did not want her to die surrounded by strangers.

I had no idea she would die the way she did. I thought she would go peacefully asleep. I did not expect the thrashing and sheet gripping that I saw for hours. I still cry now.

. She had developed an inability to recognise food and was reluctant to eat. ( Her Consultants view given after she died) Clearly she did not develop that overnight and had been on a long term trajectory of weight loss starting before she even came out of hospital.


She was assessed on the 18 th may and a recommendation made for refusal.

Yet, we were asked for funeral arrangements at the end of May. A doctor prepared her end of life plan on the 2nd June. The Place of Care was the non nursing residential home. She was barely eating and drinking, mostly surviving on The GP put no further care in place.




She suffered shock on the 8/9 June, she had accompanying rectal bleeding.


She died on the 18th June the day the Panel was due to meet to refuse nursing care. The panel was die to meet an hour or so after death.

As I said you need video evidence and a diary.



It was truly shocking and upsetting to be told by the care home manager less than 2 weeks after the assessment that she was eating insufficiently to maintain life and could he have funeral details!!

I found the nursing assessor to be incredibly hard and unsympathetic. I left the room whilst food needs were being discussed as I was traumatised. When i returned she said 'is it something I have said?'

Is it something she said......


I knew my mother was dying. I had spoken to a few friends who are doctors and nurses who told me to be prepared for her death in the immediate future. They looked at her blood pressure,weight charts and meds and could predict. One expressed amazement that digioxin was being given to my mother without a pulse being taken when her blood pressure had been so variable ...she also suffered from untreated hypothyroidism and weight loss. I mean off the record they predicted the time of my mothers death .......amazing that isn't it. They used the adage if they are deteriorating weekly they will die within weeks. Yet this Nurse Assessor seemed incapable of seeing what they could see, what we could all see

In contrast this nurse assessor kept on saying my mothers BMI meant she was not at risk from not eating .


It was truly horrific and traumatic. I will never forgive the NHS for this.
 
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Saffie

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Mar 26, 2011
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Near Southampton
It really is a post code lottery to get CHC. If you get an assessment be prepared for quite a lot of amazing assessments.

I'm so sorry for your dreadful experience Sharina. your poor mother. It does make one think it is pretty pointless applying

This is what I have been trying to say from the beginning - that the document, whichever is used at the start is only as valid as the person completing it. We can take in everything there is to know about CHC funding but in the end it is going to be down to the PCT assessors what level of heed is recorded. My husband's didn't even warrant the full assessment even though he had multiple health problems as well as dementia. It was considered that the evidence supplied by the nurse didn't satisfy the criteria for the level of need that she had placed him in so in many of the areas, he was downgraded byt the CHC team. The nurse then decided not to take it further and I, in my naivity didn't think to question this decision mainly because she led me to believe that it was the CHC team who had made it. I now know different and have just started the process of re-application. I admit to being very dubious and nervous about the whole thing but feel I owe it to my husband to do this as his needs are now much more enhanced.

Chemmy - are you applying for CHC funding or thinking of doing so? Good luck if you are!
 

winda

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Oct 17, 2011
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Nottinghamshire
Chemmy, it is not that simple, and you cannot reduce it to such simplicity.

One person could be doubly incontinent and score a High, whereas another person could also be doubly incontinent and NOT score a High.

The scores that any one applicant achieves (for want of a better word) will have no bearing on another applicant's outcome where CHC is concerned.

It is not based on any medical diagnosis, either, but on 'needs'.

The whole process is geared more towards 'physical' needs, rather than the needs of dementia that may not be physical, although some are.

The whole process is subjective. That's where the postcode lottey comes in.

This is so true.

My husband was doubly incontinent at the time of his assessment but only scored moderate.
 

Chemmy

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Nov 7, 2011
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Yorkshire
My husband was doubly incontinent at the time of his assessment but only scored moderate.

Likewise Winda, amongst many other anomalies! Heaven only knows what 'severe' would be!

That, ladies, is exactly the sort of information I'm interested in. We can all moan about the unfairness and lack of clarity in the system but we are where we are. If this thread can give people an insight of the reality of the assessment process as well as explaining how it works in simple terms, then perhaps they will be better prepared if they decide to apply for CHC themselves.

I understand more than I did 24 hours ago - I think I need to do some sort of summary next as there's a danger of information overload!

Thank you.