Should my mothers dog be taken away from her?

Jack Russell

Registered User
Sep 21, 2012
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Hello, I am new to this forum, so please bear with me. My beautiful Mother has had Alzheimers for a few years now. So far my sisters and I have managed to keep her as independent as possible, whilst casting an 'invisible net' around her in order to ensure she's happy, safe and well cared for. She has always had a love of animals and quite often i would refer to her as some sort of Dr Doolittle, seemingly having the ability to talk to all animals. Given this, we got her a dog just over 3 years ago from a rescue home and since then, this little dog has loyally been at her side, providing love, comfort and companionship. However, there have been a couple of incidents were the dog - a Jack Russell - has bitten or nipped people in the small, local neighbourhood and this is of course causing concern for the community. As Mum's disease worsens, her ability to care for herself and keep her dog on a lead is falling away. There are now calls to remove the dog from her. Whilst i understand peoples concern and in no way wish anyone to be in danger, he's not a savage dog and for most of the time is extremely loving. He just wants to protect his master i guess. If we remove her dog, i fear she will spiral rapidly and will be heartbroken. I can't bear the thought of this. Does anyone have some experience/advice to share? We are also seeking advise from her GP, who is of the opinion to remove the dog. Help!
 

chris53

Registered User
Nov 9, 2009
2,929
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London
Hello Jack Russell, and welcome to Talking Point, am so sorry that you and family has this distressing situation to deal with, can only agree a dog especially for older people is so much a life line providing a sense of a "normal" life with a furry friend who only wants to love and protect their master, my mum in law also had the same dog as your mum, this of course was before she was overtaken by Vascular Dementia, this dog was very protective with her but did have a habit of suddenly wanting to have a very sharp nip to my husband or myself or friends :mad:her dog has long since gone to the great doggy master in the sky and so now she loves our dog visiting each week, should my mum in law have had dementia whilst he was alive we would have been in the same position as you, only one suggestion is that could mum have a dog walker to exercise him and then the rest of the time he could be with mum indoors? Or in the garden? or would a muzzle help if mum insisted on taking him out? my best wishes to you and please keep posting and let us know how things are going-Chris
 

meme

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Aug 29, 2011
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London
I agree a dog walker is needed as it would be unfair to the dog to let him off the lead with your mum incase he nips someone....also is the dog being fed at proper times still???
When you say remove the dog......where will the dog go? to you?? if this meant mum and dog would get to see each other still then that may be a realistic solution.
 
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AlsoConfused

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Sep 17, 2010
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I'm speaking as a dog lover who had one much loved dog that was very iffy with most people ...

Sadly, you need to act quickly to prevent a court case (under the Dangerous Dogs Act?), following which the dog may be destroyed. Many dogs don't get away with more than one bite - the community around your Mum is obviously a very tolerant one.

Probably the dog's getting het up, confused and more protective of your Mum because she's no longer able to be the protective, calm "pack leader" on whom he relies. His behaviour's likely to get worse unless another "pack leader" (eg the dog walker?) steps in to provide him with security and comfort.

Can your Mum be persuaded that to keep the dog safe, he must be kept behind a stairgate in the house (eg one that blocks his access to the exit doors but doesn't stop him receiving cuddles in the lounge and kitchen); only let out into a secure back garden (check the fences and check for signs of digging his way out) that no-one else has access to; and may only be walked by an experienced dog walker who's been alerted to his behavioral problems? Obviously your Mum will want to accompany the dog-walker (walking with the dog is good for her, physically and mentally).

If you can't persuade your Mum to abide by the above, then I don't think you've any choice but to re-home the dog (which might not be easy) before the Police have to intervene.
 

Isabella41

Registered User
Feb 20, 2012
904
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Northern Ireland
Hi jack russell,
Welcome to TP. I had exactly the same problem with mum and furball. Furball is also a jack russell. I had him first from he was 8wks old. He was a well behaved wee thing and no trouble at all. He moved in with mum when he was around 2yrs old. Initially he was ok but as mum's dementia developed we too noticed his behaviour changed. He got very protective and nipped a few people. We had a couple of incidents where mum had him out and she fell over. She insisted she tripped but we think he pulled her over. He also began to mess in the house as she wasn't taking him out when he needed it.

I agonised for ages and worried what she'd be like if I took him away. I was also scared that one day he'd nip the wrong person or possibly a child. He would then be put down. We took the decision after much hand wringing to take him away. He now is back living with me and has reverted to being a well behaved wee guy. Its as if he's realised he doesn't need to guard or look out for someone here.

We bring furball to see mum and while its not ideal its the best compromise we could come up with. Would you be able to do something similar?
we did try to reason with mum to get her to keep him on a lead and muzzle when she had him out and to put him in another room when someone came but she wouldn't do that.

A dog walker is a good option. Even when furball lived with mum if someone else walked him he was well behaved. It was as if mum was the only one he felt the need to protect.

I guess you have difficult decisions to make. I'm sure you want to save your mum any unnescessary heartache but at the same time its not really fair on the dog. The dog's luck will eventually run out. One day someone will make a fuss and the dog could be put down. If it was previously a good dog it would be a shame for this to happen.

It really is a horrible dilemma.

Isabella
 

lizisews

Registered User
Jul 17, 2009
23
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Hello, I too have a dilemma about a dog, which I have posted about on another thread. I can't really offer any advice, only sympathy. I believe the previous poster is correct that the dog is stepping up to what he sees as his role as pack leader now. Would your mum take to another pet, maybe a cat? I was never very keen on pets of my own, but having been landed with 2 cats that needed a home I suddenly find myself very fond of them:) My mum,however, would never see cats as a good substitute for a dog, so this may not be an option for you.
 

Big Effort

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Jul 8, 2012
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hello Jack Russell,

I sympathise totally. We have two Jack Russells and Mum, mid-advanced Alz, has a dachs. Bloody animal. There, I've said it. Since her dementia he walks all over her. Begging and yowling for food at mealtimes, poo in and out of house (which she pretends is our dogs or next door Jack Russell, and then cleans up with her hands!). He barks like a loonatic whenever we are away - and now our dogs have learned that trick, and so has the neighbours little guy - our street sounds like bedlam when we go out without them!

We have had more arguments about dog poo (its provenence - never her darling, mind you) than there are dogs on the planet. And dachs need to poo about 4 times a day. The dementia is kicking in, and so is her fixation on his toilet needs. The result is she puts him on a lead, takes him up the hill for a wee, and home again. Same procedure 10 minutes later. On bad days she can get worn out.

Recently friends of ours who adore dogs were happy to have Mum and dachs whenever we visited them. Dachs has pooed and weed three times in their show-house. A-hem. We said no dachs when we visit them. She refused to go out at all! It is difficult. Especially as she said the dog poo and wee didn't come from her dog - arguments are futile.

The crunch came when we decided Mum needed a care home. Note she is wedded to that dog. He is an extension of her, she of him. Basically he is a priveleged human with bad manners - happily he doesn't bite. The care home said NO DOGS. That was one of the factors that made us realise putting her in a home would finish her.

So the dog issues continue.
She loves our two cats and they keep her tons of company. But the dog - he won't leave her side, nor she his. All in all a major problem.
 

Isabella41

Registered User
Feb 20, 2012
904
0
Northern Ireland
Ooh big effort, you have described mum and furball to a tee. It was never her furball who left puddles in the room. She'd say she spilled water. A pile of poo was a one off as he was short taken. One weekend when she was still living down south I went to see her and the upstairs bedroom was like an indoor toilet with neat piles of doggie poo. I lost the plot but she said a cat must have climbed through a window and did it. I kid you not!!! Amazing thing is he's lived with me since march and is such a clean we thing. Difference is we have a secure closed in yard and a doggie flap from the kitchen so the dogs come as go as they please.

Isabella
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
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You know how dogs (and cats for that matter) can be impelled to mark their territory, particularly when there is already urine residue? I've always wondered if they respond the same way to human incontinence issues - they smell and thus mark. Does anyone know?
 

garnuft

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
6,585
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No easy answer here is there? I posted on Lizisews thread about how my border terrier helps my Mam to come out of herself, she does the same for my son. It's well documented that pets keep people happy. But it/he gives you an extra burden. Walks, food on time etc. as Meme said. Dog walkers as already suggested are probably best solution but it means you're organising care for the dog when you probably don't have it in place for your Mum yet! Only 3 years in and such a loyal little dog that makes her happy (they have feelings too) I, as a dog-lover, feel you should try to keep him with her, even if it's more complicated. She would pine without him and dogs bring so much to the table, it may be something you regret on both their behalf. And no Big Effort if you're a dog-lover, cats just DON'T cut the mustard:)
 

Big Effort

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Jul 8, 2012
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You know how dogs (and cats for that matter) can be impelled to mark their territory, particularly when there is already urine residue? I've always wondered if they respond the same way to human incontinence issues - they smell and thus mark. Does anyone know?

Based on our lived experience, with Mum's dog who leaves puddles where and when they suit, which 'stimulates' neighbouring dogs to mark and remark their territory (last summer I hosed down the street due to the stench of wee), well, dogs mark dogs but ignore cats, cats attract/repel cats but ignore dog markings, and neither dogs nor cats show any marking instinct on human urine. How do I know? Our neighbour prefers to wee against his housewall when he has had a drink or two taken (easier to reach than opening doors and nagivating a couple of steps in his own house), the dogs sniff OK, but are not impressed.

So there you have the low down, Jenniferpa!
 

Butter

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Jan 19, 2012
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NeverNeverLand
As my husband got ill our border collie began to take charge of him. At the same time my husband lost his capacity to manage or look after a dog. If my husband had been living alone with the dog, I believe the dog would not have been well treated. Even so the dog was put under too much stress.
 

ggma

Registered User
Feb 18, 2012
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North Staffordshire
Dogs are wonderful companions, but they need an owner who can think ahead of them, especially a dog like a terrier who are such independent dogs. I can understand what a difficult decision you have to make, so worrying if a child is nipped, and the dog removed from your Mum.

I think you started by saying that you got the dog orignially from a rescue home? I have had a lot of dogs from rescue centres, and I know that if there are any problems they expect to be informed. Most resucues will rehome a dog for you if you can no longer keep it, especially when they rehomed it in the first place.

I wrote on another thread that my Mum's lurcher, would not speak to Mum when we finally split them up, she was exhausted with Mum's constant walking. We like you thought that Mum would not cope without her dog, and it was a really diffiuclt time. Even now when Mum has no memory, if you ask her the name of her dog, she will often come straight out with the answer.
 

Orientate

Registered User
Apr 20, 2011
15
0
farnborough
Furry Animals

This is a difficult problem Because I have worked overseas on and off for many years we have never had and pet. However now that my wife has FTD we have one of the childrens toy dogs and I often come into the room to find her cuddling the toy. Whilst nipping is a problem I believe that a pet is of great comfort.
 

Jack Russell

Registered User
Sep 21, 2012
3
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Thank you for your help!

Hello all
Firstly, my apologies for not responding to your very helpful posts in response to my original (and first) post: Should my mothers dog be taken away from her? I'm afraid, being a first-time to such a forum, i had wrongly thought that i would get 'alerts' to any responses. How silly of me. So i have just logged in to see all of your comments, for which again, i thank you. It is so comforting to know that we are not alone.

Since my post last Friday, things have moved quite quickly in terms of my mothers potential care needs and therefore, the situation with the dog. The professional consensus now seems to be that she does in fact require 24 hour care and we are therefore looking into homes for her. As to what we do with her lovely dog, that is still up in the air, but we are determined to make the right and best decision. It is such a worry that things have moved apace in the last week, but we realise that changes now have to be made to ensure the safety of our beautiful mother and the consideration of those who surround her.

Least to say, that Mum's dog gets walked around 19 0r 20 times a day, Mother always being so fit and active. He is fed more than he should be, but is good in that he only eats when he wants (and given he's walked more distance per day than your average marathon walker, perhaps its a good thing that he monitors his own intake!). He doesn't mess at all in the house, he's very clean. A muzzle has been tried, but Mum refuses to think he needs it and in fact, would now be unable to put it on. The dog walker is a fair and good point and one i shall discuss with my lovely sisters. We just want to do what's best for everyone.

Thank you again for your input, i really do appreciate it.

Back to you in due course..
 

Jacquir

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
15
0
Durham
Hi as a dog owner I believe the health benefits from owning a pet cannot be over looked. Is there a reason that your mums dog has begun to do this? After all if it has just started something must have triggered the dog to act this way. Have you accompanied your mum on her walks with her pal and watched how he is interacting with her and other people around whilst on their walks. Is he is good health? Could it be an underlying health issue with him. Maybe he isn't keen on being touched by certain types or maybe he has a sore spot. I think that a general health check at your vet and mentioning to him how the dog reacts would be a good idea. Also make sure you witness how and when this is happening. It would be a good place to start to see if when someone other than your mum walks him if he reacts the same. I hope this is of some use to you and I wish you all the best and hope your mum can share many more walks with her pal. After all dog is mans best friend xx
 

tncat

Registered User
Aug 16, 2011
1
0
East TN
Pets

My mother has had Alzheimer’s for about 5 years. She’s always been an animal lover and she had two Bassett hounds which were indoor pets. They were about 9 years old when her dementia was first diagnosed. Her dogs were her world and much of her waking moments were caring for her animals. As her dementia worsened, she frequently didn’t remember that she had just fed them and would consequently overfeed them or she would forget to feed them. She would also forget to let them out into the fenced yard and that created another problem of them wetting and pottying in the house. She always blamed the wet spots and dirty spots from neighborhood dogs that “came through the house.” One of her dogs died a year ago (at age 13) and surprisingly she handled it very well, although she would sometimes forget and hunt for her at meal time or bed time. Her second dog had to be put down a couple of months ago at the age of 14. We too, thought that once the dogs were gone, she would rapidly decline, but once again, Moma has handled the deaths surprisingly well. When she thinks about them she is sad and she sometimes forgets and wonders where they are, but overall she does very well. She would always tell us that she wouldn’t be able to live alone without her dogs to protect her. We sort of look at their deaths as a blessing because we’ve been trying to get her into an Alzheimer’s facility and that was out of the question as long as her dogs were living.
 

mandyT

Registered User
Mar 20, 2010
5
0
Co Durham
Take the dog away?

My father-in-law had a little Border Terrier that we got for him when my mother-in-law had to go into care because of her Alzheimers.

The dog and he were very happy together for several years, and the dog was a lifesaver when dad was depressed because mum was in care. They did everything together, from eating their dinners to watching football on tv. But eventually dad developed dementia too.

He rang us one day to say that someone had left the dog with him to look after and never come back for it. He was sick of it and "would we take it and have it put down because he was D****d if he was going to feed it at his expense"

The poor little dog lived with us for the rest of its life, never quite understanding what had happened and why it had been rejected.

I think your parent will miss the dog, but there is a responsibility on us to provide good, safe reliable care for a helpless animal. If the dog is snappy now when it wasn't before, it is probably because it is insecure and anxious. Kindness to the animal dictates that it be rehomed there comes a point when a person with dementia cannot be relied on to give an animal the consistent care it deserves - however much they may love it.

mandyT
 

smilingthrough

Registered User
Jun 12, 2012
5
0
jack russell

Your thread could have been written by me four months ago. My mum's wonderfully loyal rescue jack russell Rosie was her constant companion following the death of my dad 4 years ago and mum's subsequent alzheimers diagnosis. Mum moved to a privately owned bungalow in a sheltered scheme which allowed dogs but only if the resident owned them when they moved in, they were kept under control at all times and if the dog died they were not allowed to replace them. Mum and Rosie went everywhere together and she talked to her in the day and slept with her on her bed at night. Mum found it increasingly difficult, however, to keep Rosie under control. She would forget to put her on a lead when out for a walk, she would leave the door open and Rosie would then, of course, make a bid for freedom. On several occasions she did cause real anxiety to a couple of other elderley residents because she would bark and bare her teeth, and mum increasingly had little ability to gain control of her or stop any of this behaviour. I was constantly called to meetings with the scheme manager following complaints from residents many of whom had their own agendas in relation to animals within the complex. Mum and Rosie were even served with a type of ASBO and given a final warning that court action would be taken if there were any more incidents, just after Christmas last year. I continued to fight all attempts to take Rosie away from mum because I was terrified of what would happen to mum without her. But by easter this year it was obvious to me that things couldn't continue. Rosie was being fed very randomly - sometimes just with boxes of chocolates! and sometimes mum would forget to take her out all day. Rosie adored my mum but it was no longer fair on her, and also if I'm honest I was having enough problems keeping my mum in her own home without the additional pressure of Rosie. So when someone offered to have Rosie and give her a good and happy life, I let her go. Mum WAS devastated and was very sad. But constant reinforcement that it was for Rosie's sake and that she was in a very happy place, eventually settled with mum. At the same time, I employed a new carer for mum who has two dogs who she takes round to mum's everyday. Mum loves these dogs and goes for daily walks with them. I make sure that every time that I can when I go round I take my own dogs with me. I suppose this is my long winded way of saying that I so understand your difficult decision. You must make the decision to take the dog away when you honestly believe that the time is right for your mum and for the dog and until then fight tooth and nail for your mum's rights for the wonderful companionship of her dog. But if my experience is anything to go by, losing Rosie was not in the longer term the devastating blow that I had thought that it would be, and my mum has not rapidly spiralled downwards as a result. Your mum may surprise you too. Good luck.