Do I sign the Care Home Form?

[Rural Mouse]

Mum has been in respite for a week. I visited today and was given a form called Care and Support to sign. The form was blank, although it read 'I agree to the care and support outlined in this form' or something like it. It is a council owned home, the respite is through SS, funded by them and I had already signed a contract before she went in. I didn't want to sign it, it was also asking if I had PoA for medical and welfare, so left it unsigned, but will be expected to do so tomorrow when she comes out. Does anyone know what it is for? Should I sign it - although they could get mum to sign it herself, even though it is blank. Sorry to be so sceptical but I have had a lot of recent unhappy dealings with Care Agencies, CQC and SS and do feel very unhappy about their 'ways'.
RM

 

[jenniferpa]

If it's blank you don't sign it. Tell them: I need to run this past my solicitor but since nothing is written on it, I can tell you that I'm not paying for a consultation with him/her at this time.When it's filled out, then I'll look at it.

 

[Rural Mouse]

Thank you Jenniferpa

I really wanted to hear that, thank you. It's what I thought, but then doubt sets in. Seems all I do is find fault these days, just can't trust any more. She had no teeth in and yet had just 'eaten a lovely dinner'; was cold but no wrap on her as it was still in her bedroom and I had to ask the staff to toilet her as she was obviously in need. Then she was so unhappy too, it had been a long week for me worrying about her, but obviously much longer for her. I just want to get her home now.

 

[jenniferpa]

If they get pushy with you, just ask them if they sign things that are blank. And if they get your mother to sign it, well they are sailing very close to the wind regarding capacity. You could, I'm sure, raise some issues about that. In fact, if they push you to sign it I not only wouldn't do it, I'd complain officially.

 

[Rural Mouse]

Complaining is the last thing I want to do, been through hell for 3 months after she was injured by a carer. Complained to everyone, officially. Putting her on the waiting list, at this home, has been their answer to my complaints. I won't sign it, and I won't sell her home for her to go into this home. I just wondered what might be their motive, or am I being paranoid now?
RM

 

[Kathphlox]

Mum has been in respite for a week. I visited today and was given a form called Care and Support to sign. The form was blank, although it read 'I agree to the care and support outlined in this form' or something like it. It is a council owned home, the respite is through SS, funded by them and I had already signed a contract before she went in. I didn't want to sign it, it was also asking if I had PoA for medical and welfare, so left it unsigned, but will be expected to do so tomorrow when she comes out. Does anyone know what it is for? Should I sign it - although they could get mum to sign it herself, even though it is blank. Sorry to be so sceptical but I have had a lot of recent unhappy dealings with Care Agencies, CQC and SS and do feel very unhappy about their 'ways'.
RM

I agree with Jennifer, don't sign anything, until you know what it is and exactly what is involved, that's a no no.

 

[chris53]

Good Morning Rural Mouse, I am so sorry for these additional worries you have had and that mum has not been treated so well, please do not ever think you are being paranoid about your concerns, your concerns are VERY real as you want the best for mum,please do not sign anything, or be rushed into anything at all, a rather cunning plan(I found) is when you attend any meetings or having dealings with THEM take a notebook with you and even if you don't take notes just make out you are it really does unnerve them

Good luck and best wishes for mum coming home (hug) x

 

[Bristolbelle]

Don't sign....

I am surpised you have even been given a blank form, because asking you to sign before you know what is being said would in my opinion amount to falsification of records? And that is a VERY serious matter in the care industry.

 

[Chris Edgerton]

Care and Support plan

I should also make sure you get a copy before and after you have signed the “completed” Care and Support plan, as this will undoubtedly change. I feel you should also ask someone else to go over the Care and Support form – they are very hard for even an experienced person, including staff which often make mistakes. In America I believe such forms are legal a document, in the UK I am not sure, but why are we asked to sign such a document if it is not used in some way perhaps to say you Okayed something which you may very well not have the knowledge to agree to?

 

[jan1962]

Hi there,

i agree that you should not sign a blank form as they could put anything in after the fact and your signature is there saying you agree.

i would take the form back and tell them you may consider putting your signature to it once it has been completed and only then if you agree to its content. dont let them push you into anything you do not agree with. if they complete that form take it away with you so you can read it at your own leisure.

as someone said they may ask your mother to sign it but as said they could be sailing close to the wind.

seek legal help if need be.

please keep posting and let us know how you get on.


jan1962

 

[Rural Mouse]

thanks for all your replies now a quick update

Confused or What??? The Care Home Manager has called me this morning. She seems quite determined and reasonable about the need for this form. It is a CQC requirement which is needed for everyone in their care. Without it they will not be able to admit mum for either respite or permanent care in the home. It will be explained and run through with me when I go in later today. I have looked up Consent to Care and Treatment quickly and it talks about capacity to consent and deprivation of liberty legislation, making me even more worried. This is a home registered for dementia residents. I have just had a conversation with CQC who tell me this is not one of their forms, they do not supply forms to homes, and it is probably their own interpretation or set up regarding these regulations. The lady I have just spoken to though admits that it does not feel right to be asked to sign a blank form and I should take it up with the care home, or social services especially as it is their referral and a council home. I really really don't want to go down the complaining road again, it is just so destructive, and seems to leave mum in a worse position than when I started - not to mention me as I am now not well hence this move for mum. I know I will be pressured today and hope I can ask to take it home with me to think about. It does say that the person signing can rescind it at any time after signature, but then I have just read something about Capacity to make that decision. I can understand - Dementure Home, need to cover such legislation, etc. on the one hand, but I just don't feel comfortable with it for any possible future happening, eg. being moved to another home because this one can't provide care required. I queried that as it was in the contract, such an incident has recently happened where hoists became necessary in that case. Mum needs a hoist now and has one at home. Also she had 2 heart attacks in a week 3 years ago and refused to have an angiogram, she is so afraid of any pain. At that time I was upset that the hospital were refusing to treat her until they told me she had refused. What if that happens again, will I lose my right to refuse invasive treatments for her by signing this today?
Sorry this is long and disjointed, I am in panic mode for a minute or two, will get it together before I go in.

 

[Saffie]

It seems to me to be absolutely ridiculous that you should be asked to sign a blank form. I mean, what are you signing exactly? You cannot be asked to do this - they could write anything down afterwards. I would say that you agree to sign the form once it they have written down the details for which you will be signing. Also ask for a photocopy to ensure no future additions are made.

As it is an LA run home, there should be a local county councillor involved with the Adult Service Department. If you could find out who that is - and I know who mine is - then you could address this matter to him/her. It is part of their role. good luck.

 

[chris53]

Well said Saffie, very good luck Rural Mouse, we will be thinking of you x

 

[NeverGiveUp]

We have had dad signing a form and not crossing through the section which he didn't fill in, when i got copies of the records someone had filled it in for him . Someone had also filled in and signed a form for mum - not her writing and what it said was easily provably wrong , that someone had also filled in and signed a consent to share records form for her.

If they want you to sign and are going to force you, then a heavy cross line through the blank space with 'left blank' written on it.

Knowing what we do now, I wouldn't sign the form, mention solicitor checking everything. Trick with note book works , clipboard even better

 

[Rural Mouse]

thanks all for your support

The conversation was fairly civilised, me being 'talked through' the form upside down (the form not me). Being assured that this was to comply with CQC regs, and a Council Form (logo on top). It only refers to the 'details of support and care that will be provided, personal, social and medication administration', no details of any actually written, just that phrase. The box about having capacity to give consent was ticked as No as well as capacity to make a decision on sharing information. Then whether a Mental Capacity assessment had been completed and the manager said that in the case of a No they would have to do one, and assured me when I asked that this had nothing to do with sectioning or anything like that. Then a box asking if I have a Welfare PoA. A space for any support and care not wanted to be carried out and a note regarding having the right to change your mind at any time after signature. I queried that if my mother signed and then was deemed not to have capacity that couldn't happen. The Mental Capacity Assessment would kick in. A paragraph re the sharing of personal information, and another to mention any persons not wanted information shared with. Signature and Confirmation that she has no other questions and wishes to have the support and care detailed on form.
The form was NOT the one I was presented with yesterday, no explanation for that. I couldn't really see any obvious objections but did say mum is capable of making up her own mind at this time and could sign, but still not happy about it and would take the form home to think about it. It has to be signed before next respite. I said I do not have a Welfare PoA (although I do have the other) and was told well if she can make up her own mind you don't need it. Having done the Financial PoA that is not my understanding of how it goes. It all seemed above board and pleasant, well just a bit tetchy, but I still feel uncomfortable though. Another thing, there seems to be a section of this place which is locked, large block where I can hear voices, and which I was not shown round when first visited, is that normal? I noticed it yesterday.

Mum was over the moon to see me, both yesterday when she cried with relief and gave a great toothless smile at me, and again today but with teeth. She keeps saying how happy she is to be home. I must say she is much more chatty than she was before she went in though.
So, that's the plan then, keep looking at other options and get the PoA. I will then sign the form, with spaces crossed out or my own notes on the details before the next respite. Oh and make a copy.
Thanks everyone, asking you was the right thing to do, it gave me space to think and confidence to insist I have it.
RM

 

[Saffie]

My husband is in an LA run nursing home and there is a key pad entry and exit on the main door but that is all. All the wings also have a button on the doorframes for entry and exiting via the stairs, presumably to prevent resident wandering and falling downstairs as they are not on other doors and a lift is freely available.

 

[NeverGiveUp]

I think I would ask about what is behind the doors, all asked in a nice friendly way.

Always best to get all the facts.

 

[Katrine]

OH says write "No entry when signed" in each section - "Left blank" would do I think, as previously suggested. Then do a big Z, not just a diagonal line across each blank section or page. This should stop anyone writing anything in afterwards. ALSO - ask for a photocopy of the form there and then. AND - get the person you are dealing with to sign and date the photocopy.