dad's care home want him out he is to aggressive

[susanne1964]

hi all, i hope you are trying to enjoy your Sunday.
I have yet another problem i need to ask advice about.
Dad moved into a care home three weeks ago from a mental health unit he had been in for a couple of weeks. He had been there due to night wanderings, thought he was prime minister etc.

Anyway, since being in the care home he has tried to strangle one man, punched another one. Last night he broke the nose of another resident

He refuses to get out of bed most days, refuses medication, swears at the staff and in general is a pain in the backside

I have a meeting with the care home manager tommorow who is saying the chances are they are going to ask us to remove him.

I have tried speaking to the outreach team today and they were very good I must admit but could only say I need to shout and shout loud and get everyone involved.

Where do i go from here

 

[FifiMo]

Susanne,

If I were you, I'd be standing back a bit and insist that the care home inform the Authorities about the problems your dad has and how they feel they cannot deal with him. From what I can see, there are two routes open to them (a) take him back into hospital for assessment or (b) find a suitable care home for him that specialises in dealing with dementia patients with challenging behaviours. With all due respect, neither of those routes will be open to you personally to pursue and you will need the medical folks to take the lead on this.

Please don't let them foist the problem off on you. Just remember that the Authorities have a "duty of care" towards your dad.

Fiona
x

 

[susanne1964]

thanks Fiona, actually your right I am actually going to say at the meeting tommorow that they need to sort this out now.

Funny enough I kept asking the care home manager when we were going to sign the contract and kept reminding he that we had in fact not paid any fees yet and she kept fobbing me off. Now i know why

 

[goodtimes007]

hi Suzanne, just wondering how you got on today


xx

 

[susanne1964]

thank you for your concern i really appreciate it

Hi Goodtimes, it went better than we expected. Yesterday I called the emergency out reach team as obivously we were told that we had to remove dad from his care home.
The team met us there today and the Care Home Manager was horrified that one of her team had said that to us . She apparently had said to them to call us and let us know the situation and she would like to see us today.

Anyway, we went in and they said that lots of things had been happening and she was not sure why we had not been made aware that is why she had asked to see us.

Including:
punching another resident (that one we knew about)
going into another residents room holding her hand and said he was going to kill her.
throwing chairs around in the dining room
singing in the lounge whilst others were watching tv and when asked to keep quiet replied by saying "he could kill them all"
not interacting with other residents
refusing to take medication
refusing to change his clothes

our response was, that the medication and hygiene was surely part of the care home fees but quite rightly they said that dad has been aggressive when requested to do certain tasks and it was in his right to say no

anyway, due to the phone calling yesterday to the outreach team we are now lucky that they are back on board. They are saying that they are going to change his medication, give him a higher dose of anti depressant and a sleeping tablet at night and review the situation in two weeks

it was really wierd because as me and my sister went to see dad today after the meeting he actually said
"i laid someone out yesterday he was in my room and would not go out of it"

we obviously told him that he couldnt hit someone and he accepted it..

Long and short of it is that they are saying along with his alz/dimentia (not sure what it is now lol) he has mental health problems meaning depression (to be understood), delusions, aggression, extreme tiredness etc etc

where to go from here I dont know I am now taking one day at a time..

All i can say is that it is good timing because i have not found a job yet anyway

thank you again

xxxx

 

[pippin_fort]

I went through a similar experience to you with my Dad being batted from one care home to hospital to a nursing home to hospital to another care home and finally he was Sectioned when things had reached the stage you are at. He was detained whilst they assessed him until they finally granted him continuing care. He is now in a lovely dementia unit close to me, where he is getting the right care. They adjust his medication when things get difficult as other problems arise and generally I am happy that he is in the right place. From my experience whilst it was pure hell going through the system at the time, in this instance you are better off getting the authorities to take responsibility, as you are more likely to get the correct care in the end. The problem with many or indeed most private care homes is that they do not have qualified dementia nursing staff merely relatively untrained carers. There comes a time when more specialist care is necessary. I wish you all the best. Big hug.

 

[susanne1964]

thanks pippin.. must admit I have been looking at dimentia units today that can deal with "behavioural issues" mmm have a feeling its going to be a bit of a long road

thank you again and any other advice would be greatly appreciated

Sue
xxx

 

[SWMBO1950]

It is very hard......................

...dealing with dementia without all the other problems. As he has only been in the care home for 3 weeks it appears to me he is making his distaste at being there apparent to all - quite understandable.

My FIL went through a phase when he was aggressive and did hit another patient but it did subside eventually.

A friend of mines father wrecked his room i.e. ripping the sink off the wall during one of his outbursts but again it did subside.

Not everyone with dementia is 'a pussy cat' and those in the business of caring for such patients should be prepared as they are all different - they charge enough money don't they?!!

Yes the care home do have a duty of care but not just to your dad but also to other residents. They cannot however foist you off to sort yourself out.

I am sure now that you have got the attention ot the emergency out reach team things will get sorted.

I do wish you all the best and hope things settle down sooner rather than later.

thanks pippin.. must admit I have been looking at dimentia units today that can deal with "behavioural issues" mmm have a feeling its going to be a bit of a long road

thank you again and any other advice would be greatly appreciated

Sue
xxx

 

[susanne1964]

update

Hi all, We are having daily contact with the outreach team and like I said (or I think I have said) they have adjusted his medication slightly. I am now going to sit back for two weeks and then let the "professionals" tell me what the next step is.

Apparently when they sent myself and my sister off searching for a care home they were meant to come out and inspect it but of course they never .

Our main problem is (and I am sure many others are having the same issue) is that dad is physically fit and really does not fit in there.

I have stayed away today (I interfere far to much anyway) and I am going back again tomorrow to see how he is.

One question I was told today that if they move dad to a unit for challenging behaviour even though he has money we can claim help is that right?

thanks again for the continued support

Sue
x

 

[FifiMo]

Sue,

You might want to investigate what they call FNC (full nursing care) together with the usual CHC. On the premise that a unit that caters for people with behavioural issues normally deals with this by having a higher ratio of staff and probably more qualified nursing staff rather than just carers, the care home fees can be proportionally higher as a result of this. FNC if I remember rightly is about £108/week. What seems to happen is that the care home applies for a nursing assessment to be carried out - this involves NHS, SW and Psychiatrists. There is only one assessment the outcome of which can be either Nothing, FNC or CHC being awarded. If you are going to visit any care homes then it is good to ask whether they would be applying for this assessment to be carried out. Ask whether all of their clients are in receipt of at least FNC. This would give you an indication of whether your father might qualify or not. One word of warning though, please make sure you don't get stung if they send him somewhere and the FNC is not then awarded - you might be expected therefore to have to pay this element which is subsumed within the higher care home fees.

Hope this makes sense, if not please ask and i'll explain it in more detail.

Fiona

 

[susanne1964]

chemical cosh / heart attack in the night I know what I think mum would want

dad has been here for four weeks now. On Saturday night at 9pm he walked out of his room, went into the lounge and attacked a sleeping man. He basically tried to strangle him whilst shouting that he was "going to kill him"

Had a meeting with the CH and they are trying their very best I must admit, the outreach team are out every day, but dad sleeps for 16 hours a day

My sister and I were there on Monday we got there about half past two and he was obviously still in bed, we struggled to wake him up.

Eventually after about half hour we got him up to get him to at least drink a cup of tea (his lunch was cold on a tray) they have lunch between 12-1pm. (least of my worries to be honest).

Anyway, he could not even hold a cup of tea dropped it all over himself and that is where it went even worse....... I know a lot of people are going through this and i am struggling to understand these days, maybe it is because I have to give up the full time care and hand him over to "care home".

We got out clean clothes out of his wardrobe and found that out of six pairs of trousers he only had one left.

Tried to encourage him to go into the bathroom to change boxer shorts at least so we did not have the embarassment of him changing and neither did he but he did not have the faintest idea what we were asking him to do

Anyway, he then turned to my sister and said "you are dead to me" she was bloody mortified to be honest, then he said again and again "your are dead"...

I at this stage was standing at the bathroom door and was trying to encourage him to go in there to change boxers and he turned around and said

"do you think you can force me to do this"

I know this sounds petty considering what others are going through but we went through the violence as kids and I am not prepared to go through it again..

I must sound like a heartless ***** but he destroyed my childhood...... I have looked after him for the last two years and forgiven everything.... He needed my help and I gave it.... now he is turning on me and I cannot handle it.

I prayed to my mum last night to take him, give him a heart attack in the night and let this nightmare be over

 

[jenniferpa]

Susanne - can I just say that no one here is going to blame you for thinking this sort of thing. Hell, many of us think this: "take my family member before they get any worse" when we've had a wonderful relationship, so not wonder you feel like this when the entire thing has been problematic.

You may not be able to do this, because "responsibility" in inbred in many of us but: could you step back from this? What if he didn't have any daughters? What would they do then? There seems no virtue in putting yourself through this. Is it improving his situation? It doesn't sound like it. And if it isn't, then why do it?

I do understand if you feel you have to keep on the tread mill, but at the very least, do understand that we understand if you feel resentful.

 

[jan.s]

Oh Susanne, how I feel for you and your sister. This is such a difficult situation.

I honestly think that if it were me, I would walk away for a time and allow the CH to sort things out. If he is attacking other residents, they must have procedures in place to deal with this, because it's not the first time this has happened to them.

You say people are going through worse, but I can see how awful this is for you. You are trying so hard to support your dad in every way you can, and not receiving any co-operation from him - in fact quite the opposite.

I can't offer practical advice, but I wanted you to know that I care and send you my love.
Jan x

 

[susanne1964]

i cant do it anymore i am going to be honest, when he turned on me it was like he had ruined the last two years and you have to remember that I had not seen him in ten

Its going to get worse I know that..... but I am one of five kids yet he only remembers me and in the past has said I am his favorite child,,,,,, what a joke that was ......

to turn on me like that is a massive kick in the teeth......

Yet I am the bloody one that is here at gone midnight trying to sort this in my head

The CH system has taken over and however loud I shout they do not take any ******* notice of me... but why would they when he is attacking the other residents on a almost daily basis........

 

[jan.s]

Susanne, you have done everything you can and so much more than most would have done. I think you have put up with so much, especially in the light of the past, and it is now time for you to step back and let the CH deal with things. You don't deserve to be feeling the way you do.

Jan x

 

[Tana]

Hello. I really feel for your predicament. My Dad is violent too. A Care Home with unqualified carers is not a suitable place for your Dad now. He should be in a specialist unit with qualified support.

Your step back is a good move. You are not responsible for finding him a suitable place. You're not trained to know what he needs and don't know the resources available. Please don't feel guilty for leaving it to those who are paid to know.

 

[Witzend]

I prayed to my mum last night to take him, give him a heart attack in the night and let this nightmare be over

Susanne, please don't feel bad. I used to pray to my father (dead many years) to come and get my mother before we had to put her through the trauma of moving her to a CH. She's now been in the CH over 4 yrs. She wasn't violent, but was often extremely difficult and strained my nerves and patience to breaking point. I also used to wish I could just give her a nice dinner, put her to bed, kiss her goodnight and that she'd never wake up. TBH it would have been by far the best and kindest thing.

My f-i-l (I've been through all this twice) could be VERY aggressive and it was seriously scary. I had him with us a few months before realizing I simply couldn't cope. Would have welcomed a chemical cosh - anything - GP was utterly unhelpful. My s-i-l who is French and used to be a nurse said it was quite normal in France to 'cosh' people who are so difficult. She wouldn't have him at all after he became so difficult, not that I blamed her in the least.

In my mother's CH there was a still-fit man who used to have v aggressive periods, sweeping all his meals and drinks off the table, throwing chairs around, shouting and frightening the other residents. I used to wonder when he'd be moved somewhere else but he died of a heart attack after only about 3 months. A mercy if you ask me. Used to feel so sorry for his wife, who was with him every single time I went to see my mother.

 

[susanne1964]

ok, after I have "kicked butt" tommorow I know I should walk away but what happens when the care home ring me at half ten at night and say your dad has done this, your dad has done that, what am I meant to do there then? I am seriously asking a genuine question honestly

 

[FifiMo]

Susanne,

You say thank you for letting me know. Thing is that they are duty bound by law to inform you if something happens and do it to protect themselves. They phone me to tell me my mother has had a fall - she is 200 miles away from me - yet they don't phone my sister who can see the care home from her window! Like you, I'm never sure what they expect me to do. Then I found out that they were required to notify me and that that is all they are really doing - covering their backs from possibility of future action being taken against them.

Fiona

 

[jenniferpa]

What Fiona said.

Also, I think I'd be telling the care home that unless your father has been hospitalized or worse, they should refrain from calling you after, say 8 pm. In other words, if you aren't going to be getting in the car to see him, then you don't need to know until after 9am the next day. Give it to them in writing if necessary.