In his own words - The views of the person SS choose to ignore
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Steven Neary
Thank you I am aware of that case and it shows that incidents like my own are happening all over the country. The MCA is a mess and the mental capacity test needs to be tightened up as the subjective nature of the test leaves it open to abuse.
You may be interested to know that I was informed by a well known mental health charity that 'a care worker with one days training can carry out a mental capacity test'. God help us all if that is the case.
Thank you I am aware of that case and it shows that incidents like my own are happening all over the country. The MCA is a mess and the mental capacity test needs to be tightened up as the subjective nature of the test leaves it open to abuse.
You may be interested to know that I was informed by a well known mental health charity that 'a care worker with one days training can carry out a mental capacity test'. God help us all if that is the case.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13498461
Link to the story about Steven Neary. The court ruled the council acted unlawfully.
Mr. A, maybe it is time to hit hard and take your father's case to the courts?
Link to the story about Steven Neary. The court ruled the council acted unlawfully.
Mr. A, maybe it is time to hit hard and take your father's case to the courts?
Common sense
I would hope both SS and the CH would have the common sense to realize that not only is public opinion against them but also legal opinion as well. I have audio and written evidence to show that they have lied and abused the MCA for their own gain, I have details of an assault against me which took place when my solicitor was present. If I took this to court it would attract media attention and you would think given recent outrage at other cases that have come to light they would wish to settle this case out of court.
I would hope both SS and the CH would have the common sense to realize that not only is public opinion against them but also legal opinion as well. I have audio and written evidence to show that they have lied and abused the MCA for their own gain, I have details of an assault against me which took place when my solicitor was present. If I took this to court it would attract media attention and you would think given recent outrage at other cases that have come to light they would wish to settle this case out of court.
Mr A,
The Judgment in the Steven Neary case will be of great interest to you:
http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/marku...COP/2011/1377.html&query=neary&method=boolean
as will Stuart Sorensen's blog posts on Human Rights:
http://stuartsorensen.wordpress.com/
He is a mental health nurse, trainer, educator, writer etc - and much respected in his field.
There's another blog that may also interest you, written by a BIA (Best Interests Assessor), AMHP (Approved Mental Health Professional) and a Social Worker - a social worker with a conscience, and with eyes wide open, rather than wearing blinkers. Also, not afraid to say that DOLs are widely misunderstood and therefore abused:
http://fightingmonsters.wordpress.com/
The Judgment in the Steven Neary case will be of great interest to you:
http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/marku...COP/2011/1377.html&query=neary&method=boolean
as will Stuart Sorensen's blog posts on Human Rights:
http://stuartsorensen.wordpress.com/
He is a mental health nurse, trainer, educator, writer etc - and much respected in his field.
There's another blog that may also interest you, written by a BIA (Best Interests Assessor), AMHP (Approved Mental Health Professional) and a Social Worker - a social worker with a conscience, and with eyes wide open, rather than wearing blinkers. Also, not afraid to say that DOLs are widely misunderstood and therefore abused:
http://fightingmonsters.wordpress.com/
This quote from the final link given by JPG:-
"The DOL scheme is an important safeguard against arbitrary detention. Where stringent conditions are met, it allows a managing authority to deprive a person of liberty at a particular place. It is not to be used by a local authority as a means of getting its own way on the question of whether it is in the person’s best interests to be in the place at all. Using the DOL regime in that way turns the spirit of the Mental Capacity Act 2005 on its head, with a code designed to protect the liberty of vulnerable people being used instead as an instrument of confinement. In this case, far from being a safeguard, the way in which the DOL process was used masked the real deprivation of liberty, which was the refusal to allow Steven to go home."
It seems to sum up Mr. A's case, where it appears to me that SS have used a DOL to get their own way and not in the best interests of Mr. A's father.
"The DOL scheme is an important safeguard against arbitrary detention. Where stringent conditions are met, it allows a managing authority to deprive a person of liberty at a particular place. It is not to be used by a local authority as a means of getting its own way on the question of whether it is in the person’s best interests to be in the place at all. Using the DOL regime in that way turns the spirit of the Mental Capacity Act 2005 on its head, with a code designed to protect the liberty of vulnerable people being used instead as an instrument of confinement. In this case, far from being a safeguard, the way in which the DOL process was used masked the real deprivation of liberty, which was the refusal to allow Steven to go home."
It seems to sum up Mr. A's case, where it appears to me that SS have used a DOL to get their own way and not in the best interests of Mr. A's father.
And this from Stuart Sorensons blog:-
"Then there are people who are detained because of what is known in European law as an impairment of mind. In these cases people who, because of mental disorder or impairment, present a risk to themselves, a risk to others or are at risk because of self neglect. These people can be detained under the Mental Health Act 1983/2007. However their detention must also comply with certain conditions known as the Winterwerp criteria. They come from a case in the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) known as ‘Winterwerp vs The Netherlands’. The Winterwerp criteria are:
Mental impairment must be assessed by a competent professional;
There must be an impairment of mind;
The impairment must be severe enough to warrant detention;
The impairment must be causing problems at the time. "
Further into the blog it mentions under European law that:-
"Under UK and European law the Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards cannot be used to detain a person in the best interests of other people – only in that person’s best interests. If Steven Neary was truly a danger to society then there is other legislation to cover that. If he is not a danger to the public then he should retain his liberty. This is, in effect, a major misuse of a legal framework designed to protect people from inappropriate detention – not to be used as an excuse to deprive them of their liberty when they don’t warrant it."
So DoLs should only be used in the best interests of an individual, If a person is a danger to others then other legislation (I presume the Mental Health Act 1983) should be used in such circumstances.
I think Mr.A has some very powerful ammunition in this three links. Thanks to JPG1 for posting them.
"Then there are people who are detained because of what is known in European law as an impairment of mind. In these cases people who, because of mental disorder or impairment, present a risk to themselves, a risk to others or are at risk because of self neglect. These people can be detained under the Mental Health Act 1983/2007. However their detention must also comply with certain conditions known as the Winterwerp criteria. They come from a case in the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) known as ‘Winterwerp vs The Netherlands’. The Winterwerp criteria are:
Mental impairment must be assessed by a competent professional;
There must be an impairment of mind;
The impairment must be severe enough to warrant detention;
The impairment must be causing problems at the time. "
Further into the blog it mentions under European law that:-
"Under UK and European law the Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards cannot be used to detain a person in the best interests of other people – only in that person’s best interests. If Steven Neary was truly a danger to society then there is other legislation to cover that. If he is not a danger to the public then he should retain his liberty. This is, in effect, a major misuse of a legal framework designed to protect people from inappropriate detention – not to be used as an excuse to deprive them of their liberty when they don’t warrant it."
So DoLs should only be used in the best interests of an individual, If a person is a danger to others then other legislation (I presume the Mental Health Act 1983) should be used in such circumstances.
I think Mr.A has some very powerful ammunition in this three links. Thanks to JPG1 for posting them.
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Mr A
I am afraid that I have not followed your threads fully , but sufficiently to know basicaly the details .
I may therefore have missed some details that would answer my question
In view of your aboove quote
With all the 'aggro' it is causing you why have you not gone to the media?
I am sure ,particularly at the present time with so much media interest in social care,
they would be interested
I am surprised that your problem has not reached them already, TP isn't exactly private.
I am sorry if I have missed the point , but with all the twists and turns in your
problem ,none of them seeming to make progress, it is surely time to move onto
more positive solutions ,legal, media, MP jimbo 111
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I'm in prison
A new post has been placed on my fathers blog site.
I tried to encourage him with news of the Steven Neary case. Being deaf and old it is often hard for him to pick up on things but as he keeps saying he may be old but he is not daft.
I think his words today sum up his feelings about being placed in a care home.
Please contact me if you would like to have the web link.
A new post has been placed on my fathers blog site.
I tried to encourage him with news of the Steven Neary case. Being deaf and old it is often hard for him to pick up on things but as he keeps saying he may be old but he is not daft.
I think his words today sum up his feelings about being placed in a care home.
Please contact me if you would like to have the web link.
Mr A,
I've just listened to the extraordinary phone conversation you had with your dad today.
I do hope for all your sakes that your dad is as vocal and compos mentis when he meets his MP this coming week. It's scary to think that we cannot understand what has gone wrong in your case. I wish you and your father a quick resolution and fair justice after all you've been through.
Best wishes, Jancis
I've just listened to the extraordinary phone conversation you had with your dad today.
I do hope for all your sakes that your dad is as vocal and compos mentis when he meets his MP this coming week. It's scary to think that we cannot understand what has gone wrong in your case. I wish you and your father a quick resolution and fair justice after all you've been through.
Best wishes, Jancis
Thanks to geum123 for a very interesting PM
So it would appear that using a DOL's and imposing restrictions on visiting is a well known weapon in the SS and CH bag of dirty tricks.
I very much doubt that the CH will want my father speaking to anyone without them being present as they objected to my solicitor being present.
I think its about time I started to get nasty if the CH and SS wish to continue using dirty tricks against my father.
So it would appear that using a DOL's and imposing restrictions on visiting is a well known weapon in the SS and CH bag of dirty tricks.
I very much doubt that the CH will want my father speaking to anyone without them being present as they objected to my solicitor being present.
I think its about time I started to get nasty if the CH and SS wish to continue using dirty tricks against my father.
Mr Angry,
I am surprised at the restraint you have shown so far.
I would have been extremely nasty long before this.
Good luck and keep us posted.
I am surprised at the restraint you have shown so far.
I would have been extremely nasty long before this.
Good luck and keep us posted.
The link from geum123
I would like to thank Geum for the following link
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showt...ghlight=prison
It would appear my case is not as outlandish as some people have suggested. It is shocking to discover that using DOL's to ban a 'trouble maker' relative (in the eyes of SS) is a standard practice. I wonder if the Steven Neary case will change things. I doubt it.
Head of SS claims to be unaware of my fathers case and so called independent advocate can't say when they lasted visited my father but insists he is happy there. Perhaps both of them should listen to his own words on the web site.
In my case my father is being held to ransom by SS and the CH. It is a case of shut up, pay up and we may let you see your father. If not he will die in the CH. The only reason he got placed there was the death of another resident. Not a case of 'care' more a cash generating production line.
I would like to thank Geum for the following link
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showt...ghlight=prison
It would appear my case is not as outlandish as some people have suggested. It is shocking to discover that using DOL's to ban a 'trouble maker' relative (in the eyes of SS) is a standard practice. I wonder if the Steven Neary case will change things. I doubt it.
Head of SS claims to be unaware of my fathers case and so called independent advocate can't say when they lasted visited my father but insists he is happy there. Perhaps both of them should listen to his own words on the web site.
In my case my father is being held to ransom by SS and the CH. It is a case of shut up, pay up and we may let you see your father. If not he will die in the CH. The only reason he got placed there was the death of another resident. Not a case of 'care' more a cash generating production line.
Hi Mr A,
I'd be interested to see the link but can't get it to work. If it's too long you can make it into a TinyURL (www.tinyurl.com) and cut and paste.
Actually - this should work as well http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?18128-Restricted-visits-to-Mother&highlight=prison
What happened above is what happens if you try to copy a previously pasted clickable link - you get link text rather than the actual link.
That wasn't quite the same situation though - that was more the care home and social services being the intermediary between two sides of a family when one part of the family had a registered EPA, but it wasn't the closest part. I don't think you can equate the two situations to be honest.
What happened above is what happens if you try to copy a previously pasted clickable link - you get link text rather than the actual link.
That wasn't quite the same situation though - that was more the care home and social services being the intermediary between two sides of a family when one part of the family had a registered EPA, but it wasn't the closest part. I don't think you can equate the two situations to be honest.
Read the comments
comments such as the relative 'is happy here' and the CH arrogance in suggesting they have the power to stop someone seeing a relative and SS then using DOL's to prevent someone seeing a relative other than at times dictated by SS and having staff watching their every move are relevant to my case.
comments such as the relative 'is happy here' and the CH arrogance in suggesting they have the power to stop someone seeing a relative and SS then using DOL's to prevent someone seeing a relative other than at times dictated by SS and having staff watching their every move are relevant to my case.
And not only in your case Mr A but in my case too.
Thanks for the link Geum, I've just caught up on Maisy's story and it has made my blood boil all over again.
I wish I had found this thread when I first joined up with TP as I felt very alone for a long time thinking my case was unique and the pain our family felt was in some way unique.
We were treated like a problem family who didn't deserve to have any say in our relative's care!
Thanks for the link Geum, I've just caught up on Maisy's story and it has made my blood boil all over again.
I wish I had found this thread when I first joined up with TP as I felt very alone for a long time thinking my case was unique and the pain our family felt was in some way unique.
We were treated like a problem family who didn't deserve to have any say in our relative's care!
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