I am going round in circles with my mother's bank who say I can only have internet banking for my mothers account if I "intercept" the details they post to her( the last lot expired as my mother had no idea what it was and ended up "hiding" it and by the time I found the codes it was too late to register online). They also will not allow a debit card ( just take hers and get her pin if necessary) and the cheque books also disappear - that's if a cheque book was ever sent in the first place. My mum requested a cheque book be sent at a meeting with the bank, along with the internet banking and a card so its not that she doesn't want them to be sent, she just can't remember she has asked.And the bank don't know if they sent a cheque book or not. She also does not like me "snooping " about looking for them.Its bad enough snooping about looking for bills. The bank say it is their policy but won't give me this in writing, and all I want is some clarity as to what I do and what my mother does in case I am asked to account for withdrawals/transactions at a future date.What is normal with lasting power of attorney or am I missing something here?
what access to bank accounts do you get with lasting power of attorney
- Thread starter catherine1
- Start date
No, you're not missing anything. It's the bank that's missing ..... and missing a lot!
If your bank doesn't even know whether a cheque book has been sent out, they don't deserve to be called a bank! And many of the 'counter staff' have little knowledge of LPAs, so always ask to speak to someone in the legal department, or the Manager even.
Put your request(s) in writing to the bank - and ask the bank to reply in writing. Deliver your letter in person (if possible, or send it via Recorded Delivery), addressed to the Legal Department (who really should know about Lasting Power of Attorney), and get a receipt for your letter, with the name of the person who takes your letter from you!
Or if you have a local CAB, they will advise you - and may even contact the Bank on your behalf.
This is a registered lasting power of attorney for finances? In which case you are entitled to operate the account as if you were the person whose account it was (with the proviso that you use the funds responsibly, for that person etc etc)
Unfortunately, you seem to have encountered one of the banks who have no idea how to deal with an LPA. You're going to have to try to move up the food chain. Most banks have a department dealing with people with disabilities and they are possibly going to be able to help you. However, if you simply cannot get further, you may have to close this account and open one in a bank who knows how to do this. If you decide to take this tack, open the account first.
I'm sorry, you shouldn't have to be dealing with this several years after the legislation was brought in, and if you have the energy I would say keep after them, if only for the benefit of people who come after you. However, sometimes, you will find it is faster to cut your losses (i.e. move the account to a bank that will work with you).
You could call the help line at the OPG as well.
Unfortunately, you seem to have encountered one of the banks who have no idea how to deal with an LPA. You're going to have to try to move up the food chain. Most banks have a department dealing with people with disabilities and they are possibly going to be able to help you. However, if you simply cannot get further, you may have to close this account and open one in a bank who knows how to do this. If you decide to take this tack, open the account first.
I'm sorry, you shouldn't have to be dealing with this several years after the legislation was brought in, and if you have the energy I would say keep after them, if only for the benefit of people who come after you. However, sometimes, you will find it is faster to cut your losses (i.e. move the account to a bank that will work with you).
You could call the help line at the OPG as well.
I did contact the OPG and they suggested I go to a solicitor and get them to write, which if I can get the energy and time I may need to do. But what I really want to know before I have the hassle is what do other people get? What is normal because the person I spoke to this time didn't think it was normal to have two cards even if we transferred to another bank, and they will only issue one card per current account which my mother has ( though forever forgetting the PIN or losing it ) I don't think I should be taking it off her as it seems unfair to restrict her, though she has a lot of money in her current account so it may be necessary. I would like to move it from the current account to one that is not so easy for her to get at as she doesn't always understand taking out large amounts of cash and hiding it is not a good idea. But I can't even do this. What is normal? I'm so confused with it all and trying to sort it all means I cannot pop over to make sure mum is ok. And then she starts playing up - a vicious circle.
Hello Catherine
From my experience of lodging Mum's POA this is the sort of nonsense that untrained branch staff come out with. You mentioned the Spanish bank. I will PM you in case I have some info which helps.
Mary
x
From my experience of lodging Mum's POA this is the sort of nonsense that untrained branch staff come out with. You mentioned the Spanish bank. I will PM you in case I have some info which helps.
Mary
x
I think it would be fair to say that it isn't "normal" that your mother should retain a debit card since she is no longer competent (in a legal sense). It doesn't mean it can't happen, but I think most banks would take the position that if a person had been deemed incompetent then they are unable to understand the implications of a debit card, and thus should not have access to one. What is abnormal is the bank essentially telling you to act illegally by obtaining someone elses debit card and pin, and then telling you to use it. I'm not saying such things don't happen (I was a "fudger" in this area, particularly with online banking as they refused to allow me online access on my own part) but it isn't right, legal or wise probably. And I would have been stunned to be told to do that by the bank.
Hi
I really dont know why banks dont seem to understand that LPA's give the Attorney (you) the legal right to operate the donors (your mum ) accounts as if you were your mum . (Hope that makes sense) the only provision is that you use the persons money in the best interest of the person , but thats not up to the banks to oversee thats for the courts .
This means , cheque book ,paying in book, internet banking, bank card and phone banking if you want them .
I can understand counter staff not knowing but in my view all other staff should know
Do take this higher up in the bank maybe the OPG (office of public guardian ) will help you.
Could you have mums mail redirected to you? this service is not free but will mean you dont have to go hunting for important mail that mum has tucked away never to be found again.
Let us know how you get on
I really dont know why banks dont seem to understand that LPA's give the Attorney (you) the legal right to operate the donors (your mum ) accounts as if you were your mum . (Hope that makes sense) the only provision is that you use the persons money in the best interest of the person , but thats not up to the banks to oversee thats for the courts .
This means , cheque book ,paying in book, internet banking, bank card and phone banking if you want them .
I can understand counter staff not knowing but in my view all other staff should know
Do take this higher up in the bank maybe the OPG (office of public guardian ) will help you.
Could you have mums mail redirected to you? this service is not free but will mean you dont have to go hunting for important mail that mum has tucked away never to be found again.
Let us know how you get on
Last edited:
If it's a Spanish bank, that could explain the problems you're having. There's one particular Spanish bank that is the cause of many problems:
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/savings-and-banking/article.html?in_article_id=513578&in_page_id=7
http://conversation.which.co.uk/money/banks-make-being-a-power-of-attorney-arduous/
You are not alone, Catherine!
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/savings-and-banking/article.html?in_article_id=513578&in_page_id=7
http://conversation.which.co.uk/money/banks-make-being-a-power-of-attorney-arduous/
You are not alone, Catherine!
Some banks eg Santander limit internet access and other facilities to ANY Power of Attorney, this I consider to be legal.
Halifax however discriminate against people who loose mental capacity.
Note at bottom of page 7
"The Online Banking service is not available for Court of Protection registered customers or those acting on their behalf e.g. loss of mental capacity."
http://www.halifax.co.uk/HelpCentre/pdf/PoAbrochureHx.pdf
I have argued with their legal department that this is unlawful but got nowhere and lacking the time or energy to prosecute the matter have transferred accounts to a more helpful bank, bizarrely their masters Lloyds.
Halifax however discriminate against people who loose mental capacity.
Note at bottom of page 7
"The Online Banking service is not available for Court of Protection registered customers or those acting on their behalf e.g. loss of mental capacity."
http://www.halifax.co.uk/HelpCentre/pdf/PoAbrochureHx.pdf
I have argued with their legal department that this is unlawful but got nowhere and lacking the time or energy to prosecute the matter have transferred accounts to a more helpful bank, bizarrely their masters Lloyds.
Hi
This sounds very familiar!
I also had this problem with the 'Spanish bank' after I registered the LPA.
They refused to allow me access via the internet, sent cards, statements etc to Mum's address even though I'd told them repeatedly that everything was to come to my address, as Mum just used to bin everything that came through the letterbox.
In the end I just had to give up and I opened an account at the bank with the big X. Absolutely no hassle with them, everything went smoothly and has done ever since.
I have a card that reads - My name POA for Mothers name.
All letters, statements etc come to me. I operate the account as if I was Mum. No problems at all.
Have to say though that when I complained, the Spanish bank sent me endless letters telling me how sorry they were that they were useless, and after I closed the account I even got a cheque for £50 to prove how sorry they were!
Sometimes you just have to vote with your feet!
Carol
This sounds very familiar!
I also had this problem with the 'Spanish bank' after I registered the LPA.
They refused to allow me access via the internet, sent cards, statements etc to Mum's address even though I'd told them repeatedly that everything was to come to my address, as Mum just used to bin everything that came through the letterbox.
In the end I just had to give up and I opened an account at the bank with the big X. Absolutely no hassle with them, everything went smoothly and has done ever since.
I have a card that reads - My name POA for Mothers name.
All letters, statements etc come to me. I operate the account as if I was Mum. No problems at all.
Have to say though that when I complained, the Spanish bank sent me endless letters telling me how sorry they were that they were useless, and after I closed the account I even got a cheque for £50 to prove how sorry they were!
Sometimes you just have to vote with your feet!
Carol
nitram
Just to add that Halifax do allow me online banking as POA. And the LPA is registered with the COP.
Carol
Just to add that Halifax do allow me online banking as POA. And the LPA is registered with the COP.
Carol
It's been well reported recently that we (as a nation) are unlikely to move our current accounts. Perhaps until we do 'vote with our feet' the banks will get away with poor service.
Just a thought
As you hold a PoA then how about opening a completely new account at a new bank using the "Powers" that you hold. Then! close the present bank account using the "Powers" that you hold. All the credits now going into the present bank account can be paid into the new account - using your "Powers" you are entitled to ask the credit payers to cease paying into the present account and give them details of the new account. You may encounter a problem with the present bank who may not want to close the account - even though you have the right to ask them to do so, but by then (but for the credit balance to be transferred from present bank to new bank) everything should be running smoothly. You have the choice to find out which bank will serve you well and hopefully they will. Lx
As you hold a PoA then how about opening a completely new account at a new bank using the "Powers" that you hold. Then! close the present bank account using the "Powers" that you hold. All the credits now going into the present bank account can be paid into the new account - using your "Powers" you are entitled to ask the credit payers to cease paying into the present account and give them details of the new account. You may encounter a problem with the present bank who may not want to close the account - even though you have the right to ask them to do so, but by then (but for the credit balance to be transferred from present bank to new bank) everything should be running smoothly. You have the choice to find out which bank will serve you well and hopefully they will. Lx
Hi Catherine.
I have POA for my mum .When i went to the bank i brought registered POA cert with me and had no problems withdrawingmoney . I also requested a monthly statement to be sent to my address and they obliged without any extra cost. I was very lucky as my mum always dealt with the same person at the bank and he was familiar with me as i always accompanied my mum. Hope you get it sorted i know too well the pressures of dealing with everything sometimes you feel your head will burst .
Shauna
I have POA for my mum .When i went to the bank i brought registered POA cert with me and had no problems withdrawingmoney . I also requested a monthly statement to be sent to my address and they obliged without any extra cost. I was very lucky as my mum always dealt with the same person at the bank and he was familiar with me as i always accompanied my mum. Hope you get it sorted i know too well the pressures of dealing with everything sometimes you feel your head will burst .
Shauna
Well they would not allow it for me even when I pointed out that Lloyds would, hence I moved to Lloyds.
This was before Halifax aligned their online site with Lloyds so they may have amended the T&Cs they work to at that time and forgotten to amend the published version, or they may have just made a mistake in registering your POA and ticked the wrong box.
All I ever got from their legal department when I pointed out that I considered their policy to be unlawful under the DDA was an acknowledgement of receipt of my communication.
With Santander the most upset people seem to be ex Abbey customers. Abbey allowed access but this was withdrawn when they became Santander.
The biggest problem I have found in moving accounts is amending the linked accounts with other institutions.
Hello Catherine
I'm sorry you're having such problems with the bank.
My sister, brother and I are all attorneys for my mother's LPA. My brother went to the bank (well known high street bank) and explained we wanted to take over the bank accounts of my mother. The bank put the whole thing in train for us, took some arranging as we all live in different parts of the country and all needed to prove our identity and sign the forms. The forms were sent from one branch to another for this, there was no problem and all the bank staff seemed to understand what it was all about.
After that we all received a debit card, internet banking details and a cheque book. My brother also gets the statements. My mother received nothing as was correct.
Your bank doesn't seem to have any understanding at all of the purpose of the LPA. It is also not very professional that the bank is telling you to act illegally with regard to the account. As Jennifer said, if you have the energy you should pursue this as far up the chain as needs be. But the other suggestion is probably less hassle, open a new account somewhere else and then close the original one.
Good luck with all this, lots have gone before you but it seems things don't improve much in this area.
R
I'm sorry you're having such problems with the bank.
My sister, brother and I are all attorneys for my mother's LPA. My brother went to the bank (well known high street bank) and explained we wanted to take over the bank accounts of my mother. The bank put the whole thing in train for us, took some arranging as we all live in different parts of the country and all needed to prove our identity and sign the forms. The forms were sent from one branch to another for this, there was no problem and all the bank staff seemed to understand what it was all about.
After that we all received a debit card, internet banking details and a cheque book. My brother also gets the statements. My mother received nothing as was correct.
Your bank doesn't seem to have any understanding at all of the purpose of the LPA. It is also not very professional that the bank is telling you to act illegally with regard to the account. As Jennifer said, if you have the energy you should pursue this as far up the chain as needs be. But the other suggestion is probably less hassle, open a new account somewhere else and then close the original one.
Good luck with all this, lots have gone before you but it seems things don't improve much in this area.
R
The funny thing with all this is that the local branch are all fine - it was them that suggested getting p of a and they all thought there would be a card and internet banking and all the rest of it. Even they seem surprised. It was their help line that told me just get the pins etc. and when i asked how could I escalate this as I wasn't happy he said he was very sorry and understood but policy was policy and that was it.
Anyway I am now waiting to intercept the post if I can for the cheque books and internet banking which they are sending again and will just have to take my chances and hope I am not doing anything illegal! I think I will give stealing the PIN a miss though- it just goes beyond all we are taught.( though to be honest if she could remember the PIN she would quite happily give it to me and probably be overjoyed if I cleared her account out). I just feel vulnerable doing it in case she got in a mood and denied it. I'm not up to a fight though - I am not long over a run in with the council re sheltered accommodation that she was initially refused.
Anyway I am now waiting to intercept the post if I can for the cheque books and internet banking which they are sending again and will just have to take my chances and hope I am not doing anything illegal! I think I will give stealing the PIN a miss though- it just goes beyond all we are taught.( though to be honest if she could remember the PIN she would quite happily give it to me and probably be overjoyed if I cleared her account out). I just feel vulnerable doing it in case she got in a mood and denied it. I'm not up to a fight though - I am not long over a run in with the council re sheltered accommodation that she was initially refused.
Hi,
Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, but this seems the most relavant one.
My Dad died last month and as a result I'm taking over managing my mother's affairs. She is in a care home and the EPA has been registered since 2008 (joint and several access, so it carries on - well done solicitor!). Dad had online access as most accounts were joint. I'm now registered as the attorney, but I'm being told that I can't have online access as the reason for the EPA is mental incapacity. That seemed nonsense when I was told it and in checking up and finding this thread it seems my feelings were right!
I think I'm not supposed to mention the bank involved, so all I'll say is it wouldn't have happened when Howard worked there!
Can anyone tell me (by private or public message) if they've had any success with this bank please? Alternatively, which banks do allow online access with an EPA?
I've got enough on sorting out Dad's estate and taking over managing Mum's affairs without people making things harder than they need to be, so if nobody has got anywhere with Howard's successors then I'll move elsewhere.
Thanks in advance,
Phil
Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, but this seems the most relavant one.
My Dad died last month and as a result I'm taking over managing my mother's affairs. She is in a care home and the EPA has been registered since 2008 (joint and several access, so it carries on - well done solicitor!). Dad had online access as most accounts were joint. I'm now registered as the attorney, but I'm being told that I can't have online access as the reason for the EPA is mental incapacity. That seemed nonsense when I was told it and in checking up and finding this thread it seems my feelings were right!
I think I'm not supposed to mention the bank involved, so all I'll say is it wouldn't have happened when Howard worked there!
Can anyone tell me (by private or public message) if they've had any success with this bank please? Alternatively, which banks do allow online access with an EPA?
I've got enough on sorting out Dad's estate and taking over managing Mum's affairs without people making things harder than they need to be, so if nobody has got anywhere with Howard's successors then I'll move elsewhere.
Thanks in advance,
Phil
I have EPA for my father which is registered with HSBC and I haven't had any problem with them at all. They recommended on-line access and after talking to them about his small savings and interest rates, set up an ISA for him on line. Don't even get me talking about Santander .... after standing my ground with their staff on more than one occasion and being made to feel like I was trying to steal my father's money, I closed the account.
