Care Home Fees and Annuities that are supposed to pay for them?

[Reb]

Hi,
I am new to Talking Point and am interested to know if there is anyone who has taken out an Annuity to cover the cost of their relative/friend's care home fees? And what the experience has been?

The reason I ask is that I am trying to sort out how to pay the care home fees for my mother. She is in residential care on a trial basis, after a fall. She absolutely loves it! I have never seen her more contented. She has made loads of friends, and one special one in particular who is a lovely lady, retired teacher. They go around arm in arm and are always together at mealtimes. I am very happy with the care provided by the home BUT it is very expensive, almost £1,000 per month and set to rise after 12 months because that is what the contract says. Obviously I have thought of moving her to a cheaper place but that may compromise her general mood and contentment. I don't want to risk the move!

Hence I have decided to look into how to self-fund her care as Social Services are very unhelpful, infact all agencies have been unhelpful whilst I have been trying to work my way through this mess of a system, trying to fathom out what is the best way to pay for care. Annuities seemed an attractive option, for a lump sum, you could get care for life paid by these insurance companies based upon a level of risk of how long your loved one will live. My experience so far is that they will not go beyond a certain sum that they will pay a care home? What to do? What to do?

I suppose what I am also asking is, has anyone negotiated with a care home, what fees they can afford to pay, rather than what the care home say they charge?

Would appreciate any feedback/advice/your experience of same.
Thanks, Reb

 

[sleepless]

Welcome to TP. I'm sure you'll get lot of info. and advice on here.
One thing puzzles me a bit -- £1000 a month (£250 -ish a week?) is not expensive in my experience. Unless this is a partial payment? Do the Local Authority fund some of the care?
I too would be interested to hear how folk get on with 'negotiating' a contract.

 

[Reb]

My mistake...

It is £1,000 a week (its just astronomical, don't you think?)

 

[jenniferpa]

I know that one of our members Margaret W purchased one of these, although sadly her mother died before it could be used. I, also, was looking at one but my mother died before I could finalize the paperwork.

My understanding is that the older and worse health you are in, the cheaper (relatively) it will be. Still, it represents a gamble for all concerned.

 

[sleepless]

Easily done, Reb.
A lot must depend I suppose on your mother's financial situation -- does she own her house, how much savings etc.
I have no knowledge of the annuity plans (though our financial adviser mentioned them once, but not in a recommending way.)
Have you tried contacting your local Alzheimers' Society for advice?
There are links (above on the page) to factsheets about paying for care, and these are good.
I tend to believe that if you can find a home where your parent or spouse is happy, that is worth a lot, but I can understand you're needing to know about long-term funding for this.

 

[Reb]

Hi Sleepless, thanks for your little note...I tend to think that perhaps this site is for carers, rather than those with relatives in care homes...perhaps I am wrong. I do feel for all those people struggling with looking after loved ones at home. I couldn't do it! But then again, my mum is a little angel and even though she has dementia, she is laughing most of the time. I find the disease so intriguing, I have seen her change so much over the last 2-3 years to this point, where sometimes she knows who I am and what I used to like as a child etc, and other times she looks at me as if she is searching to know who I am. Its awful how she cannot talk in coherent sentences anymore, I can just visualise how parts of her brain are dying, its so distinct. I am just hoping that I never get dementia and if I was ever told I was likely to have it, I would make plans to end my life before it happened.

 

[jenniferpa]

Oo don't think that. You're a carer whether you are caring for a relative at home, you have a relative in a care home or, like me, you come under the category of ex-carer because the person you cared for has dies. We even have members who are "professional" carers and a few who have never been carers.

I do think a lot depends on how healthy your mother is, apart from the dementia, and if you would rather have a "sure thing". Even though I didn't get to that point, I really do not think I would have repined if I had spent £50K or more on an annuity to ensure that Mummy never had to move and never had a pay out.

 

[lin1]

I tend to think that perhaps this site is for carers, rather than those with relatives in care homes...perhaps I am wrong.

Im most happy to say your wrong !!
The only difference as I see it is, perhaps a little less worry, the cbance of more sleep at night
and additional feelings of guilt which are so so unnecessary.

Your a full fledged carer, have no doubt about that !!!
So a big welcome to TP from me

 

[sistermillicent]

Hi Reb, I would like to say that you are a carer, if you were not then you would not have found this site and you wouldnt be posting here. There are different degrees of caring, but we are all facing the same thing....something awful is happening to someone we love.

I am afraid I don't know about these policies, but if it is going to cost £52000 a year to keep your mum in that home, which it will at a thousand a week, then I can only imagine a policy will cost four times that amount at least. If peace of mind is what you are after and you can afford it, then go for it.

As to negotiating with a care home, these places are businesses in my experience, and are run by pretty sharp business people, often not the manager, who may well have no negotiating power. I have no doubt at all that you would meet a brick wall if you try to negotiate.

It is lovely to hear that your mum is happy, but I do understand how it is to be faced with losing someone this way, as will everyone here.

Pippa x

 

[Starshine]

Just had to add! Oh wouldn't it be such bliss if we could afford the care for our loved ones that we are desperate for instead of struggling to find the £1000's needed to keep them safe and cared for - It's all so so wrong!!!!

 

[susiesue]

Hi

I was paying £1,200 per week for my husband whilst he was in care.

I did investigate annuities but due to his young age the cost would have been astronomical, so never went ahead. He was 68 when he went into care and the company I approached advised me that it would not be beneficial to proceed with an annuity.

 

[Amber 5]

Hi,
I also looked at annuities, but they weren't suitable for my mum's circumstances as she wasn't going to have enough money from the sale of her house to pay for what they would charge. One of the members of staff I spoke to at that time actually said, "it's a pity she doesn't have cancer or diabetes etc. as that would have reduced the amount". Charming.

Mum is self funding until her money drops to £23,000 mark and that is fast approaching. I must get in touch with the local authority to start the process of them helping to pay her fees. I'm expecting to be asked to pay top up fees (or fear a suggested move to somewhere cheaper - although I was pushed to find somewhere cheaper in this area, and nowhere near as nice as where she currently is). I would prefer not to pay top up fees but would fight tooth and nail to keep her where she is now. I am looking for part time work in order to prepare for this eventuality.
Regards, Gill

 

[Reb]

Time to lobby??

I am very glad to have received so many replies and thank you for contributing. I know I am a carer, I do everything for mum practically and emotionally, worry about her, defend her, try and get the best for her, answer for her, argue for her and will fight so she can have comfort whilst she is on this dementia journey. I didn't want to hijack from the work that those caring for loved ones at home do by saying I was a carer in that sense!

There are two annuity companies Partnership and Axa that do these products, both of them do not pay enough for my mum's care home. I very disappointed that I cannot get payment that I need to keep mum in the home she likes.

Through the Health and Social Care Act 2008, the government brought in the Care Quality Commission to improve outcomes for people receiving health and social care. As I understand it, this means a more people-centred approach, to improve the quality of care for dementia sufferers. This is great and I applaud the approach but there is a huge market out there and the government still haven't adopted a Strategy so that people can afford better levels of care. There was talk about paying a lump sum to guarantee care in your old age etc, but govt gone quiet on this. I would be interested to know if there is anyone who has lobbied their local MP about costs of care? There's been a huge hike in daycentre costs lately in a drive to make all but the poorest pay for this essential service. Sorry for gettin political but I am trying to determine whether or not its time for me to start putting my efforts into campaigning for all carers and sufferers of dementia.

 

[DeborahBlythe]

Hi,
One of the members of staff I spoke to at that time actually said, "it's a pity she doesn't have cancer or diabetes etc. as that would have reduced the amount". Charming.

Hello Reb, We took out an annuity for my relative, although I believe it was called a 'bond' rather than an annuity. I didn't deal with the financial arrangements but from memory, I think we realised that the more aspects of my relative's mental and physical history that we could bring into the equation, the more manageable the cost would be.

Well it makes sense that if the company believes they are going to have to fund the care of a Methuseleh the fees are going to be higher than for someone at death's door, so to speak. I am not saying that deception is called for when applying, just a sharp recall of every single ailment even if you think it's currently not terribly significant!

I'm sorry I can't remember which company we dealt with: neither of those two rings any bells. Are you sure they are the only ones?

After a few years, whatever our arrangement was, I know that the agreed figures payable for care were not high enough and had to be topped up, so the idea that all care fees would be met in perpetuity was not exactly accurate. Either that, or we weren't sharp enough when we took the policy out.

From my recall, we paid more than £90,000, realised from the sale of my relative's home, which of course seemed huge originally but my relative was in care for just over nine years. However, as I said, there were additional top up payments needed in later years.