Mum getting drugs we didn't know about

[mandyp]

Hi (again!)

In case you've not seen my previous posts, a brief outline.

Mum went into hospital in February, then 3 weeks ago into a Care Home.

We had noticed that she seemed to calm down quite a bit in hospital and her agression was greatly improved. Dad asked them at the time if they'd changed her medication but they said no, apart from stopping her aricept (as it wasn't making any difference any more).

Since going into the home we find that she's been given drugs that neither Dad or I knew about, without consultation. These include Temazepam
(10mg), Lorazelam (1mg) and Amlodipine (5mg). They also seem to be giving her a laxative.

As far as I can tell these seem to be the type of drug that will effectively 'dope Mum up'. The home have commented how well Mum sleeps through the night (Dad never had experience of this) but given the fact they're giving her Temazepam, that doesn't seem particularly surprising.

The home said they're only giving Mum what was passed to them from the hospital. Dad and I are furious, can they prescribe drugs to Mum without consultation (legally)?

Thanks again

 

[jenniferpa]

Short answer is probably:- yes. Which doesn't mean that you should not have been informed, because obviously you should have been. Permission/consultation though, that's not necessarily something that comes into it. Does anyone hold a welfare LPA for her?

 

[lin1]

Hello Mandyp

Im not entirely sure but yes I think hospitals can do this, but it does seem strange that when specifically asked , you were told her meds had not been changed apart from the Aricept.

Maybe speak to mums consultant.

How is your mum on these meds , is she sleepy /dopy ect during the day.

 

[mandyp]

I'm sorry, I don't know what a Welfare LPA is? I know Dad has a Power of Attorney type of thing, is that something different?

I've googled these drugs and am now going out of my mind, the home stopped one yesterday (Dad thinks because of all his questions), Lorazelam and as far as I can see there are withdrawal symptoms if she's been on it for more than 3 weeks. She'll have been in the home for 3 weeks tomorrow.

I'm furious they can just prescribe any old thing without any consultation. Surely these drugs are loaded with side effects!

If being in care means doping someone up so that they behave, Dad could probably have coped better at home if that's all it was going to take. I don't want them to ultimately kill Mum with some cocktail of drugs designed to keep her in a more docile state. The amount of weight she lost whilst in hospital was shocking. I wanted (partly) for Dad to take her out but couldn't ask him to do that as he was struggling to look after her.

It's never easy is it. Aaah well, another sleepless night beckons

 

[simonmonty]

Hello mandyp
Did the doctor carry out a capacity test on your mother to decide if she had capacity to make decisions concerning any medical treatments she was to have i,e drugs.

If yes and she was not deemed to have capacity to decide what treatment she had then they should have consulted you.

Its called consent and if a person can not consent to treatment then a best of interest meeting should have been held before any treatment started, unless in a life threatening condition,with anybody involved in her care i,e family.
Just a thought removal of Aricept is a massive decision !!!

 

[mandyp]

No, Mum is not able to talk properly now and is not capable of making any decision regarding drugs (or anything else for that matter). She no longer knows us or is very aware of anything really. There is no way Mum is capable of any decisions at all (sadly).

They did discuss the removal of Aricept with Dad and him and I both agreed that it was unlikely to be having and benefit at all now. We didn't notice any real difference in Mum except that she calmed down (of course we didn't know that she was getting all these other drugs instead).

I agree that in a life threatening situation they have to make a decision in our absence but this is hardly life threatening (well, some of these drugs appear to be life threatening though!) Mum's agression was surely part of the illness and treatment to deal with that should have been discussed with us.

I just can't accept that doping Mum up is treatment, it just seems to me to be a means to make things easier for them rather than being of any benefit to Mum (however, perhaps if they'd discussed this with us, they could have made a case for what they've done/why). It's the lack of communication that worries me, what else can they do....so worrying.

Mum's doctor has changed because of the home she's in, Dad is struggling to see the new doctor (as they don't have her records yet). He's been going in circles all day.

It can't be right to administer these types of drugs to people that can't make decisions themselves without discussion with their families. I had hoped that things would be easier for Dad now that Mum was in care. Now he's so worried about what else they can do to her without him knowing as am I. This is my Mum, do they think that because we've made the difficult decision to put her into full time care it means we stop caring/stop worrying and stop having an interest in her welfare.

Sorry, I'm really on one tonight.....rant over, I'm off to bed to try and get a bit of sleep.

 

[jenniferpa]

Well one of those drugs (Amlodipine) is for high blood pressure - it's a calcium channel blocker. The Temazepam is a sleep aid. The one I would have issue with is the lorazelam, since it's only function would be to calm her.

A welfare LPA is the "newer" form of lasting power of attorney. I sounds as if your father has an EPA (enduring power of attorney) which was replaced by the financial LPA. Unfortunately, there was in the past no opportunity (until 2007) for people to give an welfare LPA which means those who drew up an old EPA and lost capacity before drawing up a welfare LPA are, to a certain extent, in limbo. However, the guidelines do say that family members should be consulted, but it is just "should" rather than "must".

You say she's sleeping well - does she seem to be "drugged" or "doped" during the day?

 

[simonmonty]

Yes i would have a problem with lorazelam it can cause cognitive impairment. So if you already have cognitive impairment. I would be worried over its long term use. As i would have a problem with any drug that has an impact on cognitive functions.

 

[RustySaddle]

I don't have any advice, but it all sounds very scarey to me, I woudn't want this to happen to any of my family, I hope you find the answers your looking for to get my positives vibes going, let us know...

 

[will-10]

mum getting drugs

Yes the Doctor can give your mum medication without you being consulted. Obviously they SHOULD have spoken to you and its worth speakingt o the medic and asking why you were not informed of changes to treatment.

As for "eventually dope mum up ", if the medication was going to knock your mum out, the it would have happened when the meds were started.

The beta blocker, if you didnt know about this then check with the Dr and find out if your mum has angina.
10mg of Temazepam seems to be working if she is sleeping through the night.
Is the Lorazepam 1mg a set dose at set times a day or is it PRN (as required medication which has a maximum amount that can be given in a 24 hour period)This is usually for a pre determined reason such as extreme anxiety/agitation/aggression.

its worth checking with the care home what the Lorazepam regime is. Medication that is PRN can, in some care homes, end up being given in the maximum daily amount even if there is no anxiety/agitation/aggression. This is when the over sedation can occur. Im not saying that your care home is one of those that over medicates as a matter of routine, but this happens so speak to them and find out;
1 what is regular meds
2 what is PRN
3 what are the prescribing reccomendations for PRN
4 If shes getting PRN on a regular basis ask to see the records of the behaviour that led to the drug being given.

keep[ an eye on he rand if you feel shes oversedated, then speak to the home manager, GP, consultant, care co-ordinator CPN, Socila Worker and dont let up until your happy.