What IS the point!

[Notwaving]

Well soonbetter sounds like someone who is very angry and on the edge. We are all human and can snap. You need help. I'm sure you didn't really mean to offend , just letting off steam.
I came onto this site angry at my Mother, feeling how unfair it all was.Life is not fair but after reading what these good people have to say ,I am coping better.
There is no shame in not being able to do it anymore.The shame would be if you carried on feeling like this and did not get help.

 

[Tender Face]

I take my hat off to you Beverley for saying what I haven’t dared. The euthanasia debate (however subtle) is tough enough. But I am afraid this thread is haunting me for all the wrong reasons.

'saddled with a smelly old woman'

For ANYONE to describe ANYONE as such goes beyond – well, what’s worse than pale?

I am trying very hard to understand how even ‘carer burnout’ can allow someone to reach such depths. Call me old-fashioned, but anyone reaching 96 (or much earlier) deserves respect, whatever their physical and mental capabilities. Perhaps it is not in me as much as I would wish to try to understand ‘soonbetter’ and find my own equilibrium with this situation and I concede .....

I almost posted earlier that some members – whom I would have expected to post on this thread – have not done so. Presumably because their loved ones are – or have been – kept alive by medication other than for their dementia. I feel for them and the distress this thread may have caused.

I have been slowly drifting from TP .... I think this thread may have finally set the anchor loose .....

My good wishes to everyone,

Karen

 

[Skye]

I almost posted earlier that some members – whom I would have expected to post on this thread – have not done so. Presumably because their loved ones are – or have been – kept alive by medication other than for their dementia. I feel for them and the distress this thread may have caused.

You're absolutely right!

I have been slowly drifting from TP .... I think this thread may have finally set the anchor loose .....

I hope not, Karen. We need your brand of common sense.

Love,

 

[Winnie Kjaer]

Thank you Karen and Beverley I really appreciate your posts.

 

[Polly H]

Oh Karen,

Please don't drift away. I have never responded to you "direct" before but I do really appreciate your compassionate "posts". Hang on in there!....

btw... (a little light relief)apart from Dad,for whom I have a great deal of concern... by mother-in-law is 96 and blessed with amazingly good health (fingers crossed!). She lives independently with merely regular visits from her sons and daughters in law to check she is ok and if there is anything she needs. I took her to the eye hospital for a check-up last week. On an earlier appointment, after a cataract operation, she asked when she could drive again!? After checking her "new" eyesite he asked her...."when are you taking your pilot's licence!". Tremendous

She is just stunning and such a love! Thought this might cheer you up

Polly H.

 

[Kendra]

Some carers strike me as holier than thou and pretty smug about their sacrifices. I bet that gets a few hackles up as well!

The original post got my hackles up because the tone and words described an elderly sick woman as an object of nuisance value, interrupting life's pleasures.

I realise it can be difficult to strike the right tone with only the written word to put a message across.

However, some of us are already caring for partners with a disability, while trying to work part time, then have added responsibility of elder family members with Alzheimers.
In that situation, there is no possibility of or funds for a gentle retirement.
No possibility of holidays to Switzerland or anywhere else, in any future.
So we "make the best of it" and make light of what we do. To some, this may appear smug.

Just as desperation can appear bitter.
This is such a wonderful supportive place, but its sometimes difficult to put yourself in someone else's shoes.
We tend to be firmly in our own shoes, running to keep up with our lives.
Cheers
Kendra

 

[TinaT]

I've kept out of it up until now. I do not think this post deserves anything but stunned, shocked silence! I'm ashamed of the society that we have bred!

Kaz, I've PM'd you urging you not to do a 'dive' on us. Sky has said it right - we need you and your keen eye.

xxTinaT

 

[Margaret W]

Most people are better at words and phrases than I am. I apologise if I am a bit blunt, it is how I am. It is supposedly called being pragmatic. I think blunt suits me better.

We have a very old lady here, who isn't likely to live much longer (er, my great aunt was 106 when she died, so I say that tongue in cheek). She needs looking after. Soonbetter, for whatever reason would rather not do it directly. And I understand that. It's bloody hard, depressing work doing it for a much-loved relative without doing it for one you don't feel so much for. I didn't feel all that love for my mum. So I know what it's like. I couldn't have done it either.

Soonbetter, you didn't do yourself any favours by describing her as a smelly old woman. My mother in law was one of these, and some are, and some aren't, and it didn't affect how we looked after her.

You also didn't do yourself any favours in declaring that in your 60s you should be enjoying a gentle retirement. I don't know anybody in their 60s enjoying a gentle retirement. Unless they lost their parents early, ALL the 60+ year-olds I know are caring for elderly relatives. Some are also still bringing up teenagers with all that entails. Some are even bringing up grandchildren cos of marriage break-ups or the early death of their child. Many are still working. I would suggest that 70+ might be a time of expecting a gentle retirement, but 60+ is a bit young to see it as a right. But I am not saying that is how you should be, just be aware that very few 60-year olds are likely to be living a life of ease.

But, if your MIL is ready for a care home, and you think that is the right place for her, I support you 100% in you making that choice. I did it for my mum. Because she had her own house, she was self-funding. Yes, it cost an arm and a leg, a ridiculous amount. At the time, mum was only 80, she could have lived for 20 years. We imagined ourselves being penniless with the payment of top-up fees after her capital ran out, and we prepared ourselves for that. Resigned ourselves that our own retirement fund would disppear. As it happens, mum died suddenly a year later, so although most of her capital had gone, our own retirement fund was still intact.

You say your mum has carers coming in free, so that indicates that she would be eligible for a funded care home. I suggest you look into that.

You don't seem to be in a bad position really, but please let me know if I have misunderstood.

Margaret

 

[Polly H]

Most people are better at words and phrases than I am. I apologise if I am a bit blunt, it is how I am. It is supposedly called being pragmatic. I think blunt suits me better.


Margaret

Margaret,

I love your turn of phrase!. I genuinely look forward to reading your .... er ummmm "blunt" posts.

From one who appreciates them!

Love,

Polly H

 

[Margaret W]

Well, that makes two of us. Or maybe 20 of us.

Karen, don't be daft. You are needed.

Margaret

 

[alfjess]

My mil who lives with us is 96 and has severe dementia.She can still speak but talks rubbish, she can still feed herself but uses her fingers. She is doubly incontinent, deaf, almost blind and cannot walk. If we didn't give her pills every day to reduce her blood pressure and make her heart beat more effectively she would, by now, have died a natural death. But she must have her medication. We are in our sixties and should be enjoying a gentle retirement but instead we are saddled with a smelly old woman who doesn't know us and on her active days chooses to remove her clothes and smear her room with S***T.
Surely those diagnosed with severe dementia should have their medication withdrawn and be allowed to die naturally.
I'm sure most of you will be horrified at this view or are you?

Hi Soonbetter

Do you mean that you should no longer administer prescribed medications?

Of course it is your decision, but I personaly couldn't take that decision, without terrible guilt

I think I know where you are coming from. She is 96 and has all these problems, possibly you think she has no quality of life, BUT STILL-----
Sorry
Alfjess

 

[Margaret W]

Alfjess, I think Soonbetter has already indicated that medications will be given as prescribed, I think the point is - what is the point?

And so far nobody on the thread has commented that there is any justification for not giving medication.

I am all in favour of assisted dying (for myself), but this lady ain't anywhere near there at all. A million miles away, in fact. She is just old and smelly, a nuisance, talks rubbish, and eats with her fingers. In some circumstances one could describe her as a wonderful eccentric old lady.

I wish she were my mum in law. I'd be doing my utmost to make her comfortable and safe.

Margaret

 

[BeverleyY]

Alfjess, I think Soonbetter has already indicated that medications will be given as prescribed, I think the point is - what is the point?

Yes, I think the point was exactly that 'what is the point' and I have wondered this myself in the past.

When I realised just how bad Dad would end up, I thought to myself.... what is the point of keeping him healthy (controlling his diabetes, blood pressure etc.) if all I am condemning him to is the end stages of dementia. I have thought many times I would rather he died long before he got to the end stages of dementia because I really don't want him to end up incontinent and not knowing me etc. I then feel guilty for even thinking that, because effectively that is wishing him dead, which I absolutely don't want. I just don't want him to suffer in any way - it would break my heart to see him that way.

However.... there is a way to phrase that anguish ... and calling someone a smelly old lady and using words like saddled certainly isn't it

Best wishes.

Beverley x

 

[jenniferpa]

The problem is, and this is going to sound very blunt, you can't be certain what the effects of withdrawing medication would be. A massive and fast heart attack - well that might be one way to go, but what about an even more disabling stroke? So that what quality of life their remains is severely impacted but the person stays alive? That doesn't sound ideal either. And that's just BP and heart issues. Diabetes: well if you don't maintain sugar levels appropriately (and even if you do) you could be looking at amputations, blindness, and other problems.

Unfortunately, there are no accurate crystal balls.

 

[Brokenhearted]

what I want ro ask is why is Jennifer is so blunt with most of her replies? She was the reason I stopped posting,and relied instead on FRIENDLY people who are hurting just like me.

 

[Sandy]

soonbetter's last reply on this thread was post number 10 and now this is post 56.

Is this thread doing anyone any good?

 

[jenniferpa]

Brokenhearted - I'm sorry I have no idea what you are talking about (in relation to anything you may have posted). If I have upset you in some way, I apologize. You absolutely should not stop posting, even if you don't agree with me (or if I don't agree with you although I have no idea what that might be about...). This (TP) is a very big tent.

As to what I said here - when you are discussing medication withdrawal, you simply do not know what the ultimate result will be. Sometimes it might be death (which may be considered by some a happy release, and by other not) or you might end up with a worse illness.

P.S. You ask why I am blunt? I just am about some things I guess.

 

[ness688]

I just sat here reading this and going to write what comes into my head . Your dear mother in law brought your husband /wife up until they stood on their own feet ,probably hard living and harsh conditions because of the time in her life , something a child cannot do alone .Would she of walked away from him/her if things got tuff if the child through a wobbly or **** the bed , no I dont think so . Dementia is a disease that reverts life back to being a child and so who cares for them then.

I wish my husband would reach his 90's but unfortunatley we dont think he will reach 52,.

I feed him , wash him , clean his bottom and wipe up urine all over the house . watch him 24/7 and neglect myself . I have no friends and lost touch with outside world , do i care not really because all that matters is him . He has given me so much in 24yrs I could never think of being without him . Im 41 yrs old , yes younger than you but i feel it i can tell you . Im at breaking point to and never felt so exhausted but you carry on because you love and reapect them.

You sound like you cannot take anymore and have reached the end . Do something possitive and make arrangements to have her put in the care home so she can be happy for the rest of her life . Her DLA and benefits will pay for the care unless you are used to the money coming in to help you .

we all have freedom of speech and you have a right to yours and i have a right to mine . Go and enjoy your retirement together and remeber me when im retired and lost without my love of my life.
How dare you mention about taking perscribed drugs away from a dementia suffer who deserves a life too , they didnt ask for this evil disease . Somewhere still in her brain she will hear something said and will still smile at something and can you imagine what might be going on in her brain.

 

[JayGee]

Most of us struggle on as long as we can because we care about the person with dementia.
We are frequently at the end of our tether but have no time to feel smug - exhausted yes but smug no!!
So as there is no love in your heart for this old lady
then she is much better off being looked after by strangers
June

 

[dab1630]

I just sat here reading this and going to write what comes into my head . Your dear mother in law brought your husband /wife up until they stood on their own feet ,probably hard living and harsh conditions because of the time in her life , something a child cannot do alone .Would she of walked away from him/her if things got tuff if the child through a wobbly or **** the bed , no I dont think so . Dementia is a disease that reverts life back to being a child and so who cares for them then.

I wish my husband would reach his 90's but unfortunatley we dont think he will reach 52,.

I feed him , wash him , clean his bottom and wipe up urine all over the house . watch him 24/7 and neglect myself . I have no friends and lost touch with outside world , do i care not really because all that matters is him . He has given me so much in 24yrs I could never think of being without him . Im 41 yrs old , yes younger than you but i feel it i can tell you . Im at breaking point to and never felt so exhausted but you carry on because you love and reapect them.

You sound like you cannot take anymore and have reached the end . Do something possitive and make arrangements to have her put in the care home so she can be happy for the rest of her life . Her DLA and benefits will pay for the care unless you are used to the money coming in to help you .

we all have freedom of speech and you have a right to yours and i have a right to mine . Go and enjoy your retirement together and remeber me when im retired and lost without my love of my life.
How dare you mention about taking perscribed drugs away from a dementia suffer who deserves a life too , they didnt ask for this evil disease . Somewhere still in her brain she will hear something said and will still smile at something and can you imagine what might be going on in her brain.

Well said Ness,couldn't have worded it better. It's always nice of the carers of the elderly sufferers of this evil disease to lead the way on how we might relieve ourselves of our pesky poorly loves of our lives.

Soonbetter's post about having a living will and ambitions of one way tickets to Switzerland will no doubt have the other members who have reacted so angrily to this thread seeking Soonbetter's contact details to save him/her the cost of the flight and release the MIL from this remarkably unloving environment. This might be somewhat earlier than Soonbetter had planned,but it can't come early enough for the MIL.

Threads like this one should come with a health warning. It certainly falls short of the Support for people with dementia and their carers we might expect. Can we have a poll of the blood pressure of all the carers who have read this thread,before and after reading !!