DOLS application by Care Home

[28bls]

Hi everyone..first post on here so treat me gently please...sorry it's a long one!

My MiL (late 70s) has been treated for anxiety issues for 2 years though we have all thought it's more than this for a long time. She fell at home in September, living with her husband, and broke her hip. The hospital were really good with her and treated her to a "Princess bracelet" - the blue band to indicate dementia patients. She went through hell during 2 weeks of recovery as they replaced her hip as all her dementia symptoms were magnified. She was then recommended for respite care for 6 weeks and is still there now.

Her husband (early 80s) has ongoing mental health issues (depression/suicidal thoughts) and was just also recovering from his third cardiac arrest but is now insisting she comes back home and threatened to remove her from the care home over New Year. The care home have applied for a DOLS to ensure her safety and wellbeing continues in their care. Social services have been very good in supporting our thoughts that she needs 24 hour care as the dementia is worsening, plus the fact that their home is no longer suitable for her needs (no central heating, no shower, no hot water, damp etc) Plus he's a hoarder so it's a death trap too. We are expecting a final diagnosis on Thursday, though her medical records are suspecting it to be dementia with Lewy Bodies.

She has had the independent psychiatrist assessment which proves she doesn't have capacity any longer and the Best Interest assessor has advised that he now wants an IMCA (Independent Mental Health Advocate) to be involved due to the family dispute about her future care needs. Unfortunately, FiL's side of the family all think she should go back home as this will help his mental health recover (irrespective of her needs), but we really don't think he can cope with her needs, particularly as she worsens as he is not well enough himself either. This has led to a big dispute between the families (second marriage) and we are now really wary of what will happen now. The argument is developing into a "who is going to win" situation rather than what is best for MiL and her health and wellbing. His main argument being that he doesn't want to pay the care home fees any longer as he doesn't see it as value for money, when he can do exactly the same thing at home. During her time in the care home, he has since spent another 2 months in hospital, in the mental health unit.

Has anyone else been involved with a disputed DOLS? Her social worker is off sick so we are awaiting an emergency social worker to be appointed. We have the LPA registered but still waiting for the documents to arrive.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Shedrech]

hello @28bls
a warm welcome to TP
so sorry to read of your mum's situation - it's good that she is in a care home and being looked after there
it sounds as though all is being done to ensure she has the support she needs and that the manager of the home is on the ball
from what you describe, all the professionals see that it is in your mum's best interests to remain in full time care - they will all be putting her needs first above any other considerations - your FIL's wants will be noted but are not really pertinent to what your mum needs; he clearly cannot provide the level of care required in a house that is so lacking in basic comforts
his point about finances doesn't add up either - the financial assessment in regards to your mum's care home fees will be based solely on her own income and assets and half any joint assets but not the marital home as long as he lives there - so HE is not required to pay anything but her money has to be available, he cannot decide to hold it back, but he can remain in the house
I'm glad you have POA in place and hope that you have access to your mum's finances

 

[28bls]

hello @28bls
a warm welcome to TP
so sorry to read of your mum's situation - it's good that she is in a care home and being looked after there
it sounds as though all is being done to ensure she has the support she needs and that the manager of the home is on the ball
from what you describe, all the professionals see that it is in your mum's best interests to remain in full time care - they will all be putting her needs first above any other considerations - your FIL's wants will be noted but are not really pertinent to what your mum needs; he clearly cannot provide the level of care required in a house that is so lacking in basic comforts
his point about finances doesn't add up either - the financial assessment in regards to your mum's care home fees will be based solely on her own income and assets and half any joint assets but not the marital home as long as he lives there - so HE is not required to pay anything but her money has to be available, he cannot decide to hold it back, but he can remain in the house
I'm glad you have POA in place and hope that you have access to your mum's finances

Thank you Shedrech - your comments are reassuring. They rent their home but they have savings over the threshold so her place has been self funded so far. The Social Worker advised the financial assessment wasn't necessary until their joint savings dwindled to nearer the joint threshold, but it seems that he is trying to withdraw his half of the account now! Thanks

 

[Tin]

Its in HER best interests. rest of family seem to be clouding the main issue for you. Yes they will listen to her husband, but always they will have your mils best interest at heart. The rest of the family can mumble and moan and claim they know best, but honestly they have very little control over what happens to your mil, unless one of them steps up, moves in and becomes 24 hr 7 days a week carer! - Not going to happen.

 

[Beate]

I hope when you say POA you have also included the health & welfare one? This will give you the advantage in deciding where she is to live, but to be honest, even without it it's fairly clear what's in her best interest, and that's a care home. Any professional who would let a vulnerable elderly person go back to a property that is unsafe in so many ways would surely be struck off immediately.

 

[28bls]

I hope when you say POA you have also included the health & welfare one? This will give you the advantage in deciding where she is to live, but to be honest, even without it it's fairly clear what's in her best interest, and that's a care home. Any professional who would let a vulnerable elderly person go back to a property that is unsafe in so many ways would surely be struck off immediately.

Thanks Beate, yes it's both options for the POA (heatlh/welfare plus financial) though the Best Interests Assessor said that at this stage, they would struggle to allow the POA to be the deciding factor due to the family dispute so this is why the IMCA has to be appointed as it may need to be referred to the Courts to decide. He explained that MiL's legal fees would be paid by SS but FiL would have to pay his own legal fees if he wants to continue to contest any decision. We don't know how long this process will take though.Thanks for your input, it's really appreciated.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @28bls
just to pick up on what the SW said - it is not joint savings that are near the threshold that trigger LA involvement in funding - it is ONLY your mum's savings so anything in her name only and HALF any joint savings
this needs to be clear as her husband has a right to the other half, of course, but him taking out his half may make it seem that he has a right to half what is left in a joint account
and LA involvement begins sooner if half the joint savings falls below £23250
is there any way to separate out their finances completely
keep in mind that your mum being a permanent resident in a care home would mean that she should not be paying any of the rent or utility bills on the house

 

[28bls]

hi @28bls
just to pick up on what the SW said - it is not joint savings that are near the threshold that trigger LA involvement in funding - it is ONLY your mum's savings so anything in her name only and HALF any joint savings
this needs to be clear as her husband has a right to the other half, of course, but him taking out his half may make it seem that he has a right to half what is left in a joint account
and LA involvement begins sooner if half the joint savings falls below £23250
is there any way to separate out their finances completely
keep in mind that your mum being a permanent resident in a care home would mean that she should not be paying any of the rent or utility bills on the house

Thanks, we hadn't thought of that scenario so will have to make sure the account it split by agreement to avoid any further claim. Yes, ongoing bills will no longer be her responsibility. Thanks for your advice Shedrech.

 

[28bls]

Its in HER best interests. rest of family seem to be clouding the main issue for you. Yes they will listen to her husband, but always they will have your mils best interest at heart. The rest of the family can mumble and moan and claim they know best, but honestly they have very little control over what happens to your mil, unless one of them steps up, moves in and becomes 24 hr 7 days a week carer! - Not going to happen.

Thanks Tin, yes you're absolutely right, the family situation is fogging the issue and no, anyone else caring for her is absolutely not going to happen! I appreciate your comments - it makes the situation more focused.

 

[Pete R]

The Social Worker advised the financial assessment wasn't necessary until their joint savings dwindled to nearer the joint threshold, but it seems that he is trying to withdraw his half of the account now! Thanks

What you have been told is wrong and quite possibly deceitful.

If you do not split the accounts so the money only comes from MiL's account then her husband ends up paying as well.

This is from an AgeUK fact sheet.....

"One member of a couple enters a care home and has £50,000 in a
joint account. The resident is assessed as having £25,000 (50 per
cent), which is £1,750 above the upper capital limit.


However, £3,500 must be spent from the joint account before the
overall total falls to £46,500 and the resident’s 50 per cent share
falls to £23,250 (upper capital limit).


Dividing the joint account at the outset saves the couple having to
spend more capital than is necessary before the resident’s
assessed share falls below the upper capital limit."

 

[28bls]

What you have been told is wrong and quite possibly deceitful.

If you do not split the accounts so the money only comes from MiL's account then her husband ends up paying as well.

This is from an AgeUK fact sheet.....

"One member of a couple enters a care home and has £50,000 in a
joint account. The resident is assessed as having £25,000 (50 per
cent), which is £1,750 above the upper capital limit.


However, £3,500 must be spent from the joint account before the
overall total falls to £46,500 and the resident’s 50 per cent share
falls to £23,250 (upper capital limit).


Dividing the joint account at the outset saves the couple having to
spend more capital than is necessary before the resident’s
assessed share falls below the upper capital limit."

Thank you Pete R. This is very interesting and very useful indeed! We had assumed that the joint account meant joint responsibility as that's how the SW explained it to us. Much appreciated, thank you.

 

[28bls]

Thanks for your help so far....Quick update...the MRI scan results have shown Mixed - Alzheimer's and Vascular dementia so she has been peescribed Memantine. The LPA has been registered at the bank which has now shown that FiL had already taken over half the money out of the account. There is no information about how the IMCA visit or emergency SW so the CH are following this up on Monday.