Power of Attorney V Deputy

[DivingDavey]

Given the comments from the retired judge Denzil Lush I wondered if anyone has experience of being appointed deputy.

We had POA for our lovely mother and I had read that being appointed deputy is a difficult and drawn out process, exactly at a time when one needs to be making hard decisions for a loved one.

I may be wrong but if so this seems to be harmful advice!

 

[marionq]

Most people on here have commented that Deputy is expensive and requires annual accounts which POA does not. The problem with POA is it is open to abuse so you have to have good and honourable attorneys.

 

[sue38]

Being a deputy carries the same duties and responsibilities as an attorney (you have to act in the person's best interests etc.) but the reporting requirements, and the fees, are a great deal more of a burden.

Although I suspect Denzil Lush has a slightly skewed perception of attorneys acting under a Power of Attorney as he will generally only see the negative side (after all no one makes an application to the Court to show how well it's all working out, how everyone's doing exactly what they should and how family members are getting along swimmingly), I think the fact that there are no inbuilt checks or safeguards to ensure that the attorney is acting honestly leaves it open to abuse by unscrupulous attorneys.

 

[Shedrech]

hi DivingDavey
just for info here's a link to the OPG website re Deputyship
https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy
and one report of the retired Judge's thoughts
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40887323

for context, from this report:
Last year, almost 650,000 applications were made to register the document and there are 2.5m currently registered. ...
For 20 years he was the senior judge in the Court of Protection, which looks after the interests of people who do not have the capacity to look after themselves.
Mr Lush, the author of the definitive legal guide to this area, has adjudicated in 6,000 power of attorney cases.

 

[JayVeee]

We've just gone from having POA over my FIL to have a court appointed Deputy.
My FIL was constantly accusing my husband of not giving him enough money to live off and stopping him from 'being happy' Being happy to my FIL is giving money away at any opportunity to random email and romance scams.
After numerous attempts to file paperwork he finally found someone willing to help him and he applied to have his son removed. The reason being, he'd met someone online and wanted to sell his house and move to the same town as his current friend. This friend had persuaded him to buy her a car within days of meeting!
At the end of the day being constantly accused of defrauding my FIL made my husband decide it would be for the best if a court appointed Deputy took control. My FIL doesn't realise quite what he's done! At least we're now not going to be accused of fraudulent behaviour - but it will cost my FIL more. It'll be interesting to see how the Deputy deals with the 'friends' who influenced my FIL!
It's early days with the Deputy - I'd be interested to hear from anyone with a similar (ish!) scenario

 

[DivingDavey]

These are all interesting thoughts, thanks and JayVee I'm so sorry you've had to go through that.

My initial thoughts were regarding the time when a care home is required for a loved one, my concern is that if the appointment of a deputy is a lengthy affair then the patient's care could suffer.

 

[Pete R]

My initial thoughts were regarding the time when a care home is required for a loved one, my concern is that if the appointment of a deputy is a lengthy affair then the patient's care could suffer.

The CoP can make "one off" decisions so surely the care would be sorted by the State and/or the Family even if it is at the cheapest level and the finances can be dealt with at a later stage?

 

[DivingDavey]

I'm not for or against a Deputy being appointed, just after a better understanding really. If the CoP takes time to appoint a deputy my thoughts were that the patient could have a home selected for them by their local authority (God forbid) and there are some awful homes out there, along with some really fantastic ones too!

 

[Pete R]

I'm not for or against a Deputy being appointed, just after a better understanding really. If the CoP takes time to appoint a deputy my thoughts were that the patient could have a home selected for them by their local authority (God forbid) and there are some awful homes out there, along with some really fantastic ones too!

I agree about the standard of homes but being granted a deputy for Health & Welfare is very rare indeed with the CoP relying instead on a "best interests" decision for each and every decision that needs to be made, whether that be by professionals or family.

If money is needed then they can make an emergency decision on that before a deputy for Finances is appointed and if needed a change of CH can be made at a later stage.

 

[JayVeee]

It didn't take long for the Court of Protection to appoint a Deputy.
From what we could understand the COP has a pool of solicitors in a local area who act as a Deputy. In terms of recouping their costs the solicitors seem to be operating on the fact that some of the estates they look after will have enough assets to cover their costs whereas others won't have any assets and these will be a loss. Guess thats why the fees are so much......
They can't pick and choose which Deputyships they take on. The court assigns them.

We haven't reached a point where they need to make a decision yet but we do know that anything to do with selling a home will have to go through the COP.

I really don't know how long the decision process would take - but the courts do seem to bump decisions along depending on how important they are. A care home would seem like and important decision to me - but I'm not the COP!

 

[nicoise]

Obviously all situations are different, but I remember a poster on here some years ago who was devastated because the appointed deputy liquidated all her father's assets and was selling his house to put the proceeds in an account to make handling his finances simple, and neither she nor her brother were allowed any sentimental items such as photos or other family mementos.

Her father had refused to set up an LPA, and it was decided a court appointed deputy would be arranged. Obviously the deputy was acting in the PWD's best interests, but without any compassion with regard to the sentimental items, which would end up in a skip. It's always stuck in my mind how very sad that all was on top of dementia....

 

[Witzend]

Must say my first thought was, more fees for solicitors, and if this became compulsory what's the betting they'd whack them up? Especially at the moment, when quite a few of them must be suffering from the low level of house sales and consequent loss of conveyancing income.

I know abuses do occur, and there should be much more stringent ways of clamping down hard, especially when friends or relatives know an attorney is abusing their position.

However I am sure there are far more cases where attorneys are meticulous about acting in the person's best interests. And to be obliged to go to the C of P, which is a lengthy and costly process, just at the time when carers are very likely struggling to cope anyway, would only add to carers' headaches, especially when there are maybe difficult decisions to be made in a hurry, such as a care home placement after a crisis or illness.

I suspect that the judge in this case is very well meaning, but has maybe not experienced personally all the trials and worries that so often go with caring for a PWD.

 

[Chemmy]

My mum set up an enduring power of attorney rather than an LPA and it always struck me that there were better safeguards in that process, as there was a proscribed list of relatives who had to be informed whe it was registered.

https://www.gov.uk/enduring-power-attorney-duties/register-an-enduring-power-of-attorney