Won't accept he should drive

[Gnasher]

About 8 weeks ago my husband saw the consultant for the first time. After doing numerous memory type tests and asking us lots of questions he said my OH definitely showed signs of memory loss and should have a brain. He is due to have that in a week's time followed by a further appointment with the consultant. He also told my OH he should not drive.
My OH has been very angry and depressed ever since and says he will not have the scan or see the consultant again and that they can't tell him he cannot drive.
In the last 8 weeks I have refused to let him drive if I or anyone else is in the car, so if we go out together I drive withe worse backseat driver (my OH beside me). This in itself is very stressful for me when I am driving with the constant "watch that", "do this", etc. On top of that he tells me daily or several times a day how I did not support him at the appointment as I should have told the consultant he was an excellent driver.
I have tried to explain that there are far worse things that can happen but he just will not accept he should no longer drive. My son and I got rid of his car so that has helped a little but I cannot wrestle the keys off him when he insists he is going out in the car. It is bad enough having the accusations and constant angry outbursts several times a day and that of course is on top of all the other problems that his dementia brings on a daily basis.
Whilst my husband has not as yet had a formal diagnosis I know that he has had problems for more than 7 years. I read many posts on TP and have to check that I haven't written it because I can identify so closely with what has been written.
I just wondered how others have dealt with this.


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[Jo Sutton]

Sorry Gnasher, no experience of this myself, but I didn't want to read and run. I was lucky that Mum decided on her own that she wasn't safe to drive several years before she was diagnosed with VasD.

Can you talk to the consultant or GP? Is there some way he can be declared medically unfit to drive and his license taken away? Then you can blame it on the nasty doctor and deflect some of the anger against yourself. Possibly some anti-depressants might help as well?

Thinking of you and sending you virtual support.

Hugs

Jo xx

 

[Rageddy Anne]

What you've written brings back the awful time I had when my husband was sure he could drive and we knew he shouldn't.

Our GP never said he shouldn't drive, nor refer my husband for a scan. He simply referred us to a consultant, who performed tests ( three years in a row in our case) and then diagnosed Alzheimers. But I think your husband is experiencing these things later in his dementia journey, and being told to stop driving by his GP before being given the diagnosis hasn't helped you.

When my husband was diagnosed, he wouldn't accept it, and it looks as though yours won't either, unless you have a very patient and diplomatic consultant to explain it to him skilfully.

Reasoning with my husband about giving up driving would never have worked. Instead we arranged for the DVLA to invite him to do a routine practical driving assessment...Routine at his age, we said....you'll have no problems. But of course he did, and was gently advised to give up driving. No one actually told him to stop...we persuaded him it was his idea, and praised him lavishly for doing the right thing, when some people were still driving and shouldn't be.

A friend went with him for the assessment, because we didn't want my husband to connect his stopping driving with me....Somehow, on the drive home, the friend persuaded my husband that giving up had been entirely my husband's voluntary decision, and they broke the news to me, and we all praised him for his responsible attitude and good sense!

The back seat driving continued for a while, but gradually faded away, and I think in time he was glad he wasn't driving!

So sorry you're going through this awful business, I remember well how hard it was and how diplomatic we needed to be!

 

[annierich]

About 8 weeks ago my husband saw the consultant for the first time. After doing numerous memory type tests and asking us lots of questions he said my OH definitely showed signs of memory loss and should have a brain. He is due to have that in a week's time followed by a further appointment with the consultant. He also told my OH he should not drive.
My OH has been very angry and depressed ever since and says he will not have the scan or see the consultant again and that they can't tell him he cannot drive.
In the last 8 weeks I have refused to let him drive if I or anyone else is in the car, so if we go out together I drive withe worse backseat driver (my OH beside me). This in itself is very stressful for me when I am driving with the constant "watch that", "do this", etc. On top of that he tells me daily or several times a day how I did not support him at the appointment as I should have told the consultant he was an excellent driver.
I have tried to explain that there are far worse things that can happen but he just will not accept he should no longer drive. My son and I got rid of his car so that has helped a little but I cannot wrestle the keys off him when he insists he is going out in the car. It is bad enough having the accusations and constant angry outbursts several times a day and that of course is on top of all the other problems that his dementia brings on a daily basis.
Whilst my husband has not as yet had a formal diagnosis I know that he has had problems for more than 7 years. I read many posts on TP and have to check that I haven't written it because I can identify so closely with what has been written.
I just wondered how others have dealt with this.


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I would have thought that if your insurance company finds out that the consultant told him that he should not drive then your insurance policy will be invalid for him. Maybe it's time for some 'tough love' and 'love lies' and hide the keys from him / say the car is out of action / hide the car at a friend's house until he has forgotten that he's been told he can't drive. Please think of the consequences if he drives - he could cause an accident or hurt someone. Maybe use taxis / buses for a while? Or use the car only when he is otherwise occupied? It's hard, I know.
When my late FIL was told not to drive we had all sorts of 'I'm only going to put the car in the garage / get it out of the garage. Trouble was they lived in a flat and the garages were in the complex. He could have knocked someone over who was walking in the car park, or had an accident with another car. Eventually he forgot about driving but it did take some time.

 

[Lawson58]

It is definitely time for you to 'lose' your car keys.

If he is not fit to drive, then you need to be the responsible one and take steps to stop him because at the end of the day, you will feel dreadful if someone else gets hurt.

Long before he was diagnosed with AD, I was very aware that OH was becoming a danger on the roads and whenever we went out I insisted on driving. I reported him to our local licencing authority but all they did was send a form to our GP who was not in a position to make a call on his driving ability.

Fortunately, the consultant reported him which then involved a thorough assessment and on the road test and the immediate loss of his driving licence. Happily he couldn't blame me for losing his licence but was really shattered when it happened.

I am a little surprised that the consultant wasn't prepared to help you out as it really is a difficult thing for many carers to deal with. Personally, I'd rather put up with your husband's anger than let him loose in a car again.

 

[Fullticket]

Won't accept he should not drive

I too was surprised that not much happened to stop my mother driving before and after she had the diagnosis. She then had a couple of TIAs so we resorted to 'tough love' and took the car keys (as her main carer I of course bore the brunt of the vitriol). My brother took the car away so for a time she did think she might get it back again.
I can see her point because at the time she was still living independently and by taking the car we had prevented her from making the most of her social life - though she was still physically fit and able to negotiate bus routes at that time. We put forward the concept that if she drove herself into a wall and killed herself then that was her problem but if she ran over someone or caused an accident, then would she be able to live with herself? This took some time because the dementia meant that she was only thinking about herself.
Her licence was due to expire but (with POA) I sent it back with a letter explaining the diagnosis of dementia and how we considered she was not safe to drive; the Driver and Licensing Agency (or whatever the name is, haven't looked it up) refused to cancel her licence without her writing to them. When it did expire they wrote to her and asked if she wanted to renew it!
Over time she has come to believe that she stopped driving when she was 80 (she was 87) and did so voluntarily because she would never forgive herself if she hurt someone because of her driving.
I would do the same again in the blink of an eye. If your situation is anything like ours, the blame does go away in time as their memories are unreliable.
Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Bod]

Try your local road safety office, many run Older Driver Assessment courses.
An assessor comes out, and has a ride in the PWD's car, over local roads, assessing their driving, then makes recommendations at the end.
This worked for FiL he gave up, and the car went the same day.
The real key is to remove their car, and be absolutely firm on any other vehicles in the family.

Bod

 

[SoAlone]

About 8 weeks ago my husband saw the consultant for the first time. After doing numerous memory type tests and asking us lots of questions he said my OH definitely showed signs of memory loss and should have a brain. He is due to have that in a week's time followed by a further appointment with the consultant. He also told my OH he should not drive.
My OH has been very angry and depressed ever since and says he will not have the scan or see the consultant again and that they can't tell him he cannot drive.
In the last 8 weeks I have refused to let him drive if I or anyone else is in the car, so if we go out together I drive withe worse backseat driver (my OH beside me). This in itself is very stressful for me when I am driving with the constant "watch that", "do this", etc. On top of that he tells me daily or several times a day how I did not support him at the appointment as I should have told the consultant he was an excellent driver.
I have tried to explain that there are far worse things that can happen but he just will not accept he should no longer drive. My son and I got rid of his car so that has helped a little but I cannot wrestle the keys off him when he insists he is going out in the car. It is bad enough having the accusations and constant angry outbursts several times a day and that of course is on top of all the other problems that his dementia brings on a daily basis.
Whilst my husband has not as yet had a formal diagnosis I know that he has had problems for more than 7 years. I read many posts on TP and have to check that I haven't written it because I can identify so closely with what has been written.
I just wondered how others have dealt with this.


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Gnasher, I really feel for you. This could have been my story, regrettably since licence was revoked July 2016 my OH still doesn't accept it and his GP and I are still jointly to blame. Others have given mixed reviews of help from DVLA. I can only say from my experience they were no help whatsoever. My OH initially just wanted to be assessed but having revoked his licence at the first report they refused to allow assessment unless GP said he was cured! Obviously GP can't do this but as OH is certain he doesn't have AD anymore he can't see the problem. I feel DVLA attitude doesn't encourage people to do the right thing. Explaining and reasoning regarding the awfulness of harming someone else when driving has no effect whatsoever as AD means only looking at life from their own perspective. Good luck I can only offer the thought that you are far from alone with this problem. Perhaps Alzheimers Society could contact DVLA with a request to improve the way they deal with this issue?

 

[irismary]

I managed to reason my husband out of driving before the memory clinic told him he had to give up. I told him true stories of two of my uncles having relatively minor accidents and how both then voluntarily stopped driving and how much better it was to decide for yourself than be told by a doctor or a faceless bureaucrat that you have to stop. It sort of worked although I had to keep going over it time and again. He was very much a backseat driver for a while and still does a bit but never mentions him driving now. A real difficult one, and I remember the memory clinic doctor saying it was the bit she dreaded. I also recall she was going to "report" him as unsuitable to drive to the DVLA but we had already given his licence up.

 

[Loopiloo]

Gnasher, I also feel for you as do others who have posted and been through this. A profoundly difficult time. I can identify with you and all the others.

It was not helped in our case by the DVLA taking 4 months to write and ask for the return of my husband's licence after being told he had to stop driving twice. By the memory clinic consultant and then following a driving assessment.

Oh yes the back seat driver.... but that does eventually go although it took my husband about 2 years after returning his driving license for him to appear to forget all about it. Hang on in there as best you can and good luck.

Loo x

 

[cuppatea]

Know exactly what you mean, hubby is very angry and driving features. He hasn't yet been formally diagnosed, memory clinic on Weds but brain CT scan before heart op showed small vessel disease. I took him to the GP for him to ask about driving, had to remind him when we got there why he wanted to see GP! Anyway GP persuaded him and he went along with it at the time so I asked GP to write a letter so I could remind him. He grumbled away for a few weeks then started getting really aggressive again. A GP friend told him he would need to do a written test on the new Highway Code as well as a driving assessment so that has calmed him down at the moment. No doubt he will be back on it soon. Current issue is glasses - again - sure it's due to brain changes and not the ' totally hopeless' opticians I take him to.... Good luck and persevere you'd never forgive yourself if something happened. We live in a rural area no buses makes it harder.

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[Gnasher]

Thank you all for replies and more importantly your advice. Whilst I take on board much of what has been said I am not sure what more I can do. As I said my husband has not as yet had a diagnosis and the consultant said he "should" not drive not that he must not. There has been no DVLA involvement yet. If anyone asked me to assess my OH's driving I would say that it is not as good as it was, have not had cause for any major concerns, as yet, but he sometimes forgets where certain controls are, eg fog lights (but he was driving 2 cars at the time). As I said my son and I tricked him and got rid of his car but we still have mine, which he alwYs drove as well. Apart from the fact we live in a village some miles from nearest Town I have to do two school runs per day for my granddaughter so it is not practical to say car does not work, hide it at a friends, etc.
Anyway if I can get him to the next appointment I will email consultant beforehand so he can be the bearer of bad tidings if not I will GP to help. Thank you everyone.


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[Madog]

Gnasher My husband thought he was OK driving He had a driving assessment every six months with the disability assessment centre They kept telling him he was OK to drive but only because they were telling him where to go when to turn etc etc When it came to driving daily I was having to tell him when to change gear when to turn read the road signs when to indicate all these he was unable to do It was only when we nearly ended up going down an expressway the wrong way I put my foot down and said no more driving Safety first if you are unsure speak to the doctor or the DVLA

 

[Harlech]

Gnasher My husband thought he was OK driving He had a driving assessment every six months with the disability assessment centre They kept telling him he was OK to drive but only because they were telling him where to go when to turn etc etc When it came to driving daily I was having to tell him when to change gear when to turn read the road signs when to indicate all these he was unable to do It was only when we nearly ended up going down an expressway the wrong way I put my foot down and said no more driving Safety first if you are unsure speak to the doctor or the DVLA

I had the same issue with my OH and I was getting progressively more nervous as a passenger. So I used this as the excuse as to why I should drive as I was not good as a passenger. He was having his licence renewed just yearly anyway since his diagnosis. I filled in the latest form and ticked some periods of confusion and gave permission to contact doctor, who I had already spoken to about my reservations. DVLA then did not renew his licence. OH not happy as he thinks he has been out on a driving test (never happened!) and his driving was fine. We were never going out without one another anyway, so we put in both cars and got one new one and I keep emphasising how lucky he is to have a "chauffeur" on hand all the time. This seems to have worked. Also, he can enjoy a glass of wine when we go out for lunch! I am now much more at ease in the car as a driver, I was getting to dread going out in the car even though we did not have any dangerous episodes, because I was micro managing his driving - really stressful time. Much easier time. Good luck.

 

[Spamar]

OH filled in the forms and was stopped from driving. He was most annoyed (!) and did two driving assessment tests. They both failed him. I remember one reason was that he didn't put his foot on the brake firmly enough! But it wasn't his own vehicle, a small pickup, and things like that can be adjusted anyway. I'm not saying I disagreed either it, though within three months he definitely couldn't drive. It was a year before he finally let me get rid of the pickup, I think only cos it was going to a friend of a friend!

This was 9-10 years ago, though. I felt it was all a bit odd cos for him driving was a way to get somewhere, he didn't particularly enjoy it.

 

[VickiW]

I had a similar battle with my Dad. I eventually found south east Driveability, an NHS based driving assessment tool and persuaded Dads GP to refer him for an assessment. This took the decision away from me. Yes, they said they recommended he did not drive but did it in such a way that my Dad knew he would be irresponsible to continue. He does mention every now and then that he thinks he would be OK to drive but has stopped insisting and is now happy to be driven everywhere. He helps me drive by checking if the way is clear and loves being a passenger now, I have to drive slowly everywhere so he can notice everything around him.

I never ever thought he would accept it, he was a very independent and proud man, and also very challenging in his behaviour sometimes. So there is always hope!


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[Elle3]

I had a similar problems with my dad, I had started to notice that he was forgetting how to work some of the controls in the car and he was starting to get lost on journeys he had done many times and he was complaining about how much traffic there was.

However, my dad was very fierce when it came to keeping his car and driving, but over a few weeks I played to his ego and managed to persuade him to stop driving and sell his car by telling him about all the other 'bad' drivers on the road and how he didn't want to be involved in an accident with one of them, especially as he has been such a good driver all his life, he didn't want to ruin that did he? I also started showing him videos of crashes and stupid drivers that I'd seen on Facebook and in the end I managed to convince him that I was protecting him from all the other bad drivers and it wasn't him that was bad it was everyone else. The other thing I also used was how much money he would save not having to pay car tax, mot, insurance and servicing etc.

A combination of both of these reasons to give up eventually worked and this was about 18 months ago now, however, occasionally he still says he wants to buy another car and tells anyone who will listen that I made him sell his car, but then he tells people about all the other bad drivers and how much money he is saving.

 

[Gnasher]

I had a similar problems with my dad, I had started to notice that he was forgetting how to work some of the controls in the car and he was starting to get lost on journeys he had done many times and he was complaining about how much traffic there was.

However, my dad was very fierce when it came to keeping his car and driving, but over a few weeks I played to his ego and managed to persuade him to stop driving and sell his car by telling him about all the other 'bad' drivers on the road and how he didn't want to be involved in an accident with one of them, especially as he has been such a good driver all his life, he didn't want to ruin that did he? I also started showing him videos of crashes and stupid drivers that I'd seen on Facebook and in the end I managed to convince him that I was protecting him from all the other bad drivers and it wasn't him that was bad it was everyone else. The other thing I also used was how much money he would save not having to pay car tax, mot, insurance and servicing etc.

A combination of both of these reasons to give up eventually worked and this was about 18 months ago now, however, occasionally he still says he wants to buy another car and tells anyone who will listen that I made him sell his car, but then he tells people about all the other bad drivers and how much money he is saving.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with your Dad. I have done some of these already. Eg getting rid of his car, he rebate for his road fund licence and then the renewal for his insurance came through - another saving. All of these he has been delighted with. He has his scan next week and I feel sure when we go for results the consultant may tell him he is informing DVLA or he must surrender his licence.


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[Elle3]

Thank you for sharing your experiences with your Dad. I have done some of these already. Eg getting rid of his car, he rebate for his road fund licence and then the renewal for his insurance came through - another saving. All of these he has been delighted with. He has his scan next week and I feel sure when we go for results the consultant may tell him he is informing DVLA or he must surrender his licence.


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Sometimes they just don't like being told directly, especially when you are dealing with male pride and driving is something that hits that nerve. That's why I stroked my dad's ego rather than tell him directly he wasn't fit to drive (even though he wasn't) I blamed everyone else. I found if you continue to work on all the positives of why he shouldn't drive and make him think it is his choice, eventually he will come round, also they might be losing their memory but who says you can't replace it with another memory and if you repeat it enough, eventually it might stick, like it has with my dad who I've been told has mid to late stage Alzheimer's. Good luck next week with the scan. Elle x

 

[PianoMike]

I had this problem with my Dad.

Driving was his life and he loved it and he was driving for a long time when he shouldn't. He also wouldn't accept things. He started becoming wreckless on the road but would never accept he'd done anything wrong. There were some massive rows in the car.

He never had an accident and I don't know to this day how he didn't. There was tension whenever he went out and he kept the keys with him at all times.

I ended up getting the keys in a dramatic fashion, which I won't go into. I told him he couldn't drive anymore and he shouted "no" at the very top of his voice - I'd never at that point hear him scream as loud in my life.

He seemed to get worse quickly after that. I often wondered if it were the catalyst towards his decline but it had to be done or it would have ended in a crash eventually.