How long live in parent's house to qualify for nursing home fee exemption?

[Relm]

My Mum lives in her own house and I live with her at the moment. I have my own home but moved in with her a year or two ago to help out.

If my Mum has to go into a nursing home I understand the council will exempt her from paying nursing home fees if I have been living in her house. I am over 60.

I may need to go and stay in my own home for a while and later come back to live with my mother. How long would I have to be living in her home with her, so that she qualifies for exemption from fees if she has to go into a nursing home?

 

[nitram]

It's not an exemption from paying care home fees, it's a disregard of the property in any financial assessment if you live there.

Does your mother currently claim the single person discount on her council tax assessment?

 

[lemonjuice]

I agree it's not an exemption from paying her own fees if she owns her house. A husband/ wife (or dependent child over 60 I believe?) cannot be forced to sell the house but will, according to my understanding, be able to defer payment, almost certainly having to be repaid after the death and 'winding up of their estate'.

 

[Beate]

There are certain circumstances in which a property is disregarded (not deferred)

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=2710

"If the person with dementia owns their own home, this may be included in the financial assessment to determine who pays care home fees. However, the home will not be taken into account if one of the following people also lives in the property, and will continue to live there after the person has moved into a care home:

a husband, wife or civil partner
a close relative over the age of 60 (as set out in the guidance used by local authorities)
a dependent child
a relative who is disabled or incapacitated."

However, I do believe it has to be that person's main home. If you have another property and can go back to live there for any length of time, then you are not disadvantaged if your mother's property needed to be sold, hence I can't see it being disregarded in your case. The council could decide that you only moved in with her after her diagnosis with the intention of having her property disregarded, and they take a dim view of that. I could be wrong, but in any case, if your mother has other savings over £23,250, they can and will be used to pay care home fees.

 

[nitram]

If the over 60 OP is resident in the property there is no problem, the property is disregarded.

The problem is what defines residency?

 

[Kevinl]

If the over 60 OP is resident in the property there is no problem, the property is disregarded.
The problem is what defines residency?

Address on your driving licence, where any pensions, bank statement, benefits are paid to, where you're on the electoral register, who knows?
I would guess the LA would want to prove residency was at your own (owner) home by any method they could, on question I was asked was did I pay council tax on any other property?
I think if you owned another property and it was available to you they'd have a long hard look at the situation before they did a disregard.
K

 

[Witzend]

Whether you have been staying with your mother or not, if you have another home of your own to go to, I don't see how your mother's house could be disregarded.

It would just be too easy a way of avoiding care home fees otherwise.

 

[LYN T]

I am confused! You have your own home but you don't want to sell your Mum's house if needed to pay her CH/NH fees?

If you have read any threads on this Forum, where a PWD is at the mercy of LA funding, you will know that to have a house to sell is a great advantage.

You will have choices -no battles with your Mum's LA- and that for me is far less stressful than trying to keep hold of a house. You won't be made homeless and you will have peace of mind.

 

[Pete R]

I agree it's not an exemption from paying her own fees if she owns her house. A husband/ wife (or dependent child over 60 I believe?) cannot be forced to sell the house but will, according to my understanding, be able to defer payment, almost certainly having to be repaid after the death and 'winding up of their estate'.

In the OP's case the property will not be disregarded but if a property is disregarded then you cannot get a Deferred Payment Agreement.

 

[Pickles53]

I am confused! You have your own home but you don't want to sell your Mum's house if needed to pay her CH/NH fees?

If you have read any threads on this Forum, where a PWD is at the mercy of LA funding, you will know that to have a house to sell is a great advantage.

You will have choices -no battles with your Mum's LA- and that for me is far less stressful than trying to keep hold of a house. You won't be made homeless and you will have peace of mind.

Too true Lyn T. Peace of mind and the freedom to choose the best care home you can find are priceless.

 

[arielsmelody]

Also, it is easy to forget that even if a house is disregarded and savings are below the threshold, that doesn't mean that the LA will pay the entire nursing home fee. They will want a contribution of almost all of that person's pension, and they won't pay more than their standard rate which is often around about £500 per week. So they only effectively pay the difference between your mum's weekly pension and approx. £500 a week. If the fees are higher, a top up will also be needed, which could be hundreds per week.

There won't be anything left over from your mum's income so you would have to pay all the bills for the house if you live there, which could be pretty expensive if you don't sell your own property.

 

[Bambini]

Sorry to jump onto this thread but I have a similar question. After sudden aggression and violence my mum is in hospital. They won't let her home for my safety and hers as she wanders so it has to be a care home. I have lived with mum all my life and 30 years in this house. I am 44. I have cared for her for 5 years solid, often 24 hours a day. I presume as house just in her name I will lose the house to pay for the fees? I don't have another house. I'm not dependent or disabled sooooooo any ideas? TIA x


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[Pete R]

Sorry to jump onto this thread but I have a similar question. After sudden aggression and violence my mum is in hospital. They won't let her home for my safety and hers as she wanders so it has to be a care home. I have lived with mum all my life and 30 years in this house. I am 44. I have cared for her for 5 years solid, often 24 hours a day. I presume as house just in her name I will lose the house to pay for the fees? I don't have another house. I'm not dependent or disabled sooooooo any ideas? TIA x

If your Mum is subject to a financial assessment the property will be included as part of her available assets as you do not qualify for the Mandatory Disregard of the property. You have to apply for a Discretionary Disregard and to me your circumstances should mean it is granted, However each LA is different in its attitude.

If the property is not disregarded then you are entitled to a Deferred Payment Agreement where the LA pay for the care and it is paid back on death or if the house is sold.

Have a read of this factsheet......
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/documents/e...rmanent_care_home_provision_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

Good Luck

 

[Bambini]

Thank you for that response. Very helpful.


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[Relm]

It's not an exemption from paying care home fees, it's a disregard of the property in any financial assessment if you live there.

Does your mother currently claim the single person discount on her council tax assessment?

I pay council tax elsewhere so I am not counted in the assessment.

My mother is the only other person living here and she gets all her council tax paid. I imagine the single person's discount may have been applied and then the whole amount gets allowed so that she pays nothing.

Why do you ask?

 

[Relm]

Sorry to jump onto this thread but I have a similar question. After sudden aggression and violence my mum is in hospital. They won't let her home for my safety and hers as she wanders so it has to be a care home. I have lived with mum all my life and 30 years in this house. I am 44. I have cared for her for 5 years solid, often 24 hours a day. I presume as house just in her name I will lose the house to pay for the fees? I don't have another house. I'm not dependent or disabled sooooooo any ideas? TIA x

I think a close relative living who had been living the person is only taken into account if the relative is over 60. The following is a link to a booklet which goes into some details.

"The Relative's Property Disregard" by DoH (June 2014)
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/322906/Relatives_Property_Disregard_Guidance_final.pdf

 

[Jessbow]

I pay council tax elsewhere so I am not counted in the assessment.

My mother is the only other person living here and she gets all her council tax paid. I imagine the single person's discount may have been applied and then the whole amount gets allowed so that she pays nothing.

Why do you ask?

If you are not counted as living there for council tax purpose, I don't think you can claim to be living there. Hence the property would definitely be included in the calculations.

 

[nitram]

Does your mother currently claim the single person discount on her council tax assessment?

I pay council tax elsewhere so I am not counted in the assessment.

My mother is the only other person living here and she gets all her council tax paid. I imagine the single person's discount may have been applied and then the whole amount gets allowed so that she pays nothing.

Why do you ask?

Because if she claimed the single person discount it would be an indication to the LA that you did not live there.

As you are not included in the assessment I don't see how you can claim it as your permanent residency.

Your mother does not pay council tax becuase she receives some mean's tested benefit(s). The tax payable on a property reduced to zero effective occupancy because all occupants are disregarded is reduced by 50%

 

[LYN T]

I think a close relative living who had been living the person is only taken into account if the relative is over 60. The following is a link to a booklet which goes into some details.

"The Relative's Property Disregard" by DoH (June 2014)
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/322906/Relatives_Property_Disregard_Guidance_final.pdf

This document specifically mentions the 'degree' to which a person lives at the house in question. It is possible that Bambini may have a very strong case. Bambini has never left the family home and has been her Mum's Carer. I hope that you can get this settled Bambini. As you say it is your only home and has been for many, many years. Perhaps contact a Citizens Advice Bureau for some further information?