Extortionate self funding costs!!

[blueboy]

So I have been looking around care homes (in Scotland, at present) and found one today which I quite liked - the ones I really like have long waiting lists and things are getting pretty urgent. However, on asking about fees, I discovered that Council funded residents pay £525 per week whereas self funders are charged at least £935 per week - what!!! Is this the norm and how can it be justified? The care home's brochure says that the £935 is the 'true' cost of the care but how can it be fair that people who have been careful with their money all their lives are expected to pay so much more than Council funded residents?

Granted the care homes which I really like are at least £1000 per week but they don't seem to charge anyone less than this amount, self funding or not. What have other people found, I wonder.

 

[Bessieb]

I think it is the case all around the country that the Council negotiate a bulk rate with Care Homes and that this is a lot lower than the rates that individuals that are self-funding are paying. This is what I was told last year by my parents Social Worker when I was looking for a CH for them. I was told that in their area the Council negotiated rate was £537 pw. So I think it is the same everywhere.

And no it obviously isn't fair at all and absolutely disgusting. But it is how it is unfortunately.

 

[Beate]

If you ever fall on hard times and need a home, you'll probably be very grateful they are able to find you a home they can afford to put you in. It works both ways, and poor people have just as much right to a good care home than better-off people have. It feels unfair but it's still a whole lot better than other countries's systems where the poor don't really get looked after at all. And at least as a self-funder you have a choice of care homes and no restrictions through the council.

 

[blueboy]

I wasn't trying to deny care for less well off people, Beate, in any way. I just wondered why the care cost should be so much higher for self funders - everyone receives the same level of care, surely. Mum will be only too happy that she can afford to pay for her care - I just don't see why it should cost her a third as much again! But, I suppose you are right in that at least we can choose the ideal home for her.

 

[jaymor]

Another thing to remember is that those who are funded by the LA are only partly funded. Their state pension is taken off them as is their private pension if they have one, though half if this is given to the spouse if there is one. They also loose attendance allowance. They are then very generously given back just under £25 per week for living expenses. My husband was in care and his expenses were far higher than £25 per week so not so generous after all.

 

[Chemmy]

But, I suppose you are right in that at least we can choose the ideal home for her.

That is the big plus of being a self-funder. Where and when.

 

[jaymor]

Another thing to remember is that those who are funded by the LA are only partly funded. Their state pension is taken off them as is their private pension if they have one, though half if this is given to the spouse if there is one. They also loose attendance allowance. They are then very generously given back just under £25 per week for living expenses. My husband was in care and his expenses were far higher than £25 per week so he would never have managed on £25 if his pensions had been taken off him because of receiving LA funding.

It isn't fair I agree, but given a choice, I would prefer a choice of home and where that home was.

 

[Kevinl]

Their state pension is taken off them as is their private pension if they have one, though half if this is given to the spouse if there is one. They also loose attendance allowance.QUOTE]

But the LA get's the pension not the home, so the LA pays the home £525 (in Blueboy's case) but might get back a couple of hundred in pensions so I fact it could cost the council very little if you have a big private pension. If the pensions went to the home along with £525 from the LA I bet the homes wouldn't need to charger self funders so much.
K

 

[blueboy]

Mum would also lose attendance allowance - this happens to everyone going into care. And, of course, her pension and private pension will go towards her care costs too, though, of course we have her house to sell to help with costs. Oh well, such is life.

 

[jenniferpa]

You do know that in England and Wales at any rate, you keep AA if you are self funding?

 

[blueboy]

Hi Jenniferpa - different in Scotland, I believe where the Government pays for personal care costs in a care home - about £150 a week, I think. If you get this you don't get Attendance allowance - seems reasonable. I didn't realise that you could keep Attendance Allowance in England. I suppose it actually means that we are slightly better off here..

 

[jaymor]

Their state pension is taken off them as is their private pension if they have one, though half if this is given to the spouse if there is one. They also loose attendance allowance.QUOTE]

But the LA get's the pension not the home, so the LA pays the home £525 (in Blueboy's case) but might get back a couple of hundred in pensions so I fact it could cost the council very little if you have a big private pension. If the pensions went to the home along with £525 from the LA I bet the homes wouldn't need to charger self funders so much.
K

My point was that care was not free to anyone who received LA funding. I was aware that the LA had the money and pays the care home but thank you for adding the information.

 

[jenniferpa]

Yes I thought it was different in Scotland.

 

[LizK]

Funding a nursing home

My husband is about to go into a nursing home on Monday. It will be £1200/week, £5200/calendar month. Reading through the contract, they won't accept you unless you have funding for 3 years. This is in Surrey, but the fees in West Sussex and Hampshire are comparable.
Liz

 

[Gwendy1]

I agree with you, and have raised the matter with dad's care providers. The biggest issue I have is that the rate has just been raised 10 percent with very little notice. This means there is no room for any financial forward planning. I had worked dad's income out, rented his house, I was covering the shortfall, all good.. Then, the massive fee increase for self funding residents...That's my main concern with this issue. My dad's money is to pay for his care, but no other 'business' would get away with this.

 

[Kevinl]

Looks like the care homes need to milk the self funders in those particular areas, two quotes from the link below.

"Surrey County Council pay a maximum of £326.45 per week for residents who qualify for their residential care costs to be paid by the council"
"Surrey and West Sussex have the highest charge per hour for domiciliary care for residents who are required to pay for their own care with a maximum charge per hour is £24.00"


http://careindustrynews.co.uk/2014/...ome-fees-well-below-recommended-600-per-week/

 

[fizzie]

I agree that self funders shouldn't be subsidising the government for those who can't - and I do think everyone should have equal access to good care but why should people who have slogged their way through all sorts of systems and hardships to carve out some savings be penalised YET AGAIN. It is absolutely wrong that they should pay double - the council should pay 750 for example and so should self funders - it is one of the biggest scams yet and I'm amazed that the legal beagles haven't found a way to tackle it.

Actually most councils do not bulk buy at all - that was another scam to appease the general public, they pay a flat rate and that's it whether they have one person in the home or two.

Increasingly homes won't take council funded residents so there will be a huge problem - a self made problem - proving two tier scams don't work

 

[dottyd]

Mum was a self funder I paid the la and they paid the home. She kept her AA

I wonder if there's a different route of entry.

Mum was wandering. Ss got involved and she went in for respite and stayed.

We paid same as councils paid.

 

[fizzie]

Mum was a self funder I paid the la and they paid the home. She kept her AA

I wonder if there's a different route of entry.

Mum was wandering. Ss got involved and she went in for respite and stayed.

We paid same as councils paid.

That is good news. I haven't heard of anyone who has managed to do that before but I think self funders should be able to take that route even if the paid the LA a small percentage on top for dealing with the 'administration'

 

[blueboy]

Just come back from Mum's - she had fallen yet again - twice today. Looking at another care home tomorrow - I wonder if they will also have a two tier system of costs? I am very grateful that we don't have a system in which people with less money can't access care but I really can't see why those who can afford it have to subsidise them. Why has this never been taken up with the government? It just can't be right.