I have recently completed a financial POA and was advised to do a Health & Welfare one. Do I really need this? Does not Social Services, Medical services etc have a duty of care and what will this POA entitle/enable me to do. Daft question I know but I had to ask.
Do I really need a Health & Welfare POA
- Thread starter Gingertwist
- Start date
Yes they have a duty of care but if you have POA you can make medical decisions or where someone should live, ie in a care home. I'm of the opinion if you are doing a financial one anyway, do the health one as well, after all, it's only another £110 (or less depending on financial circumstances) and means you get to make any decisions that might arise.
When we did POA for my Mum, about two and a half years ago, we were advised by our solicitor that if all the family were in agreement about Mums care we did not need POA for Health and Welfare. However since then I have come to the conclusion that this was not good advice and I would agree its best to do both.
Hi!..the thing you need to ask yourself is should youre loved one due to their dementia that they dont want any medical intervention..and you know they dont really mean it..it could be for something simple even ..and they are no longer able to maje a wise decision..it would prevent you and yours having to watch them give up I suppose..and ultimately care and housing and benefits are all part of welfare...get them registered as soon as possible..while they consent...best wishes..
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I would have one, because you will always know your loved one far better than any SW or medic, and certainly as far as medical intervention goes, you will know what they would or would not have wanted, if they were still able to make the decisions.
I didn't get a health & wellbeing one just the legal & financial. I've found I haven't needed it. I have found hospital, GP etc., are perfectly willing to speak to me & send hospital appts to me (suppose that comes under legal) and they know she has dementia & can't get any sense out of her (mum). I haven't found any problems with not having one. I'm happy to talk to her regarding medical procedures & go with whatever is in her best interests eg., she was refusing an IV for antibiotics when she had an infection which they honoured until I arrived at visiting & told her she needed it & they were prepared to do it while I was there telling her it was for her own good. However, I wouldn't put her through needless treatment & told the care home she didn't want to be resuscitated as she had stated this many years ago before dementia. I would think you're more likely to need a health & wellbeing one if you wish to refuse medical care rather than accept it.
Like Claregen I haven't got the health and welfare one and haven't found I need it. Both my parents have me down as next of kin with their GP, so the GP rang me to talk about their end of life wishes and has informed the care home on these. My dad has had to have surgery since then and the surgeon phoned me about his op and whether he should have it, since it was for quality of life not quantity I said yes.
Both my parents spoke to me on many occasions through their lives about how if they got dementia they wouldn't want resuscitation or anything which prolongs their lives - my mother even telling me to kill her if it ever happened (which unfortunately for her I'm not allowed to do, but I now understand why she said this, as it's so cruel letting someone live constantly being confused and scared.hopefully by the time it happens to me they will be turning people into soylent green).
Both my parents spoke to me on many occasions through their lives about how if they got dementia they wouldn't want resuscitation or anything which prolongs their lives - my mother even telling me to kill her if it ever happened (which unfortunately for her I'm not allowed to do, but I now understand why she said this, as it's so cruel letting someone live constantly being confused and scared.hopefully by the time it happens to me they will be turning people into soylent green).
I would do the health and welfare LPA , during my time on TP I have seen quite a few posts on here where someone was in dispute with SS , often regarding the person desperately needing 24 hour residential care and SS denying it.
If they had had health and welfare ,it would have helped them in their fight.
It can also help prevent people hiding behind rules of confidentiality, say if something goes wrong and they are trying to cover it up quoting * confidentiality.*
I look at it more like an insurance policy, god forbid I should ever need to use it , but can wave it under their nose If I need to.
If they had had health and welfare ,it would have helped them in their fight.
It can also help prevent people hiding behind rules of confidentiality, say if something goes wrong and they are trying to cover it up quoting * confidentiality.*
I look at it more like an insurance policy, god forbid I should ever need to use it , but can wave it under their nose If I need to.
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In New Zealand they (so far) have been quite strict about POA for Health & Welfare, wanting copies for their records when Mum was admitted for bowel surgery for early stage bowel cancer.
I had to complete and sign all the paperwork on Mums behalf. She didn't have the foggiest as to what procedure, potential risks etc All she knew was that she had bowel cancer but thought that meant they were going to operate on her bottom half as she put it.
The fact that I had POA also meant that if Mum needed a Colostomy Bag, that I had to consult the Colostomy Nurse rather than go through it all with Mum who was already confused and frightened.
My POA is in place as Mum has been deemed incapable of making an informed choice or consent.
Dad has cognitive impairment. I am down as next of kin, not Mum.
Even though my POA is not enforced for him, when he was admitted to hospital, because I at least have authority held with his GP to discuss any of Dads medical matters or tests they discussed everything with me, rather than learning second hand from Dad which is often only half corrrect.
I have to be his second pair of ears as Mum is not capable.
Its a huge responsibility but saves all so much stress and aggravation in the long run.
I had to complete and sign all the paperwork on Mums behalf. She didn't have the foggiest as to what procedure, potential risks etc All she knew was that she had bowel cancer but thought that meant they were going to operate on her bottom half as she put it.
The fact that I had POA also meant that if Mum needed a Colostomy Bag, that I had to consult the Colostomy Nurse rather than go through it all with Mum who was already confused and frightened.
My POA is in place as Mum has been deemed incapable of making an informed choice or consent.
Dad has cognitive impairment. I am down as next of kin, not Mum.
Even though my POA is not enforced for him, when he was admitted to hospital, because I at least have authority held with his GP to discuss any of Dads medical matters or tests they discussed everything with me, rather than learning second hand from Dad which is often only half corrrect.
I have to be his second pair of ears as Mum is not capable.
Its a huge responsibility but saves all so much stress and aggravation in the long run.
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If it had been possible to get a H&W POA I would have done it to be on the safe side. However, mum had previously signed a form at the surgery so I could speak to GP about her and nobody else ever made an issue about discussing her care with me either in her local area or after she moved to a care home near us where there was a completely different set of medics looking after her. This included decisions about DNR etc.
Perhaps we were lucky, but thought this might reassure others that if your relative no longer has capacity to make POA it may not be as much of a problem as you fear.
I should add that mum was self-funding so we were never in the position that others are arguing with SS, but I thought that SS only ever agree to residential placement if their assessment deems it necessary.
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I would recommend both. We are approaching the stage where decisions will need to be made but Mum has ignorant, difficult GP who does NOT know our Mums real needs, makes assessments on a 10-min visit and ignores our years of experience. We got both Finance and Health two years ago and gives us considerable peace of mind that it is there for when needed most.
Yesterday I got a cal at 8am from the care home telling me that my father was desparately ill. The ambulance crew were there when I arrived and Dad was stable. Because I have health and welfare Poa I was able to say no when they asked if we wanted to go to A&E. Our local A&E is at breaking point and we all felt that there was nothing to be gained for Dad in going there.The local Gp came, decided that Dad had had another stroke and agreed with my view.He felt that Dad would fade away over the day in peace at the CH. Actually Dad rallied and I came home to sleep.No news this morning.So I would say get PoA, discuss such scenarios with family and carers and then you will be in control.
Let's see what today brings.
I think perhaps being a definite next if kin might make a difference.
I had Deputyship for my husband so no Health and Welfare LPA but I was included in every aspect of my husband's health care both by doctors and nurses in hospital and during his 3 years in his nursing home.
I was also informed, either via the phone or in person, by the nursing home every time the GP was asked to visit and each time he was prescribed ABs etc. Also, the GP was happy to discuss things with me at any time she visited the home.
I was closely involved with every aspect of his life despite not having a H&W LPA.
You just have to weigh up the options and make a decision yourself I think as there are diverse opinions here. On balance, despite what I have said above, I would do it as you are arranging the L&F LPA anyway.
However, I am going to arrange my own LPA soon and will be only doing the L&F one!
Yes..yes....and yes! I can't stress enough as the dementia declines not just physically but crucially mentally it gives an extra layer of protection for a loved one because medical people have to recognise your legal authority to speak and act for your loved one. Medically even with health poa if your decision on something crucial is proven not to be in the person's best interests you can be over ruled but it does give you some clout at least.
I think you need to consider what would happen in an emergency, especially during Bank Holidays holidays when a lot of senior staff are unavailable. Also, one cannot assume that hospital staff are dementia aware - disappointing but true.
For example what would happen if your loved one became seriously ill whilst in respite and you were abroad? Giving the care home a copy, means that the DNR issues are dealt with in your absence.
This may sound blunt, but these things do happen.
I wanted to make absolutely sure that Mum's wishes were recorded and they have been in her LPA for Health and Welfare. Our solicitor chose appropriate wording and our GP has a copy.
Mum has had a number of emergency "adventures" recently. I always mention the LPA when discussing her care and then, if necessary, say which investigations or treatments I consider appropriate, given that she has dementia. I've never had any problems to date.
If there are any issues then these can be communicated and discussed at the outset. Clear guidelines enable a good working relationship with hospital staff - at all levels.
Some solicitors charge a reduced fee if you take out both LPA's together.
For example what would happen if your loved one became seriously ill whilst in respite and you were abroad? Giving the care home a copy, means that the DNR issues are dealt with in your absence.
This may sound blunt, but these things do happen.
I wanted to make absolutely sure that Mum's wishes were recorded and they have been in her LPA for Health and Welfare. Our solicitor chose appropriate wording and our GP has a copy.
Mum has had a number of emergency "adventures" recently. I always mention the LPA when discussing her care and then, if necessary, say which investigations or treatments I consider appropriate, given that she has dementia. I've never had any problems to date.
If there are any issues then these can be communicated and discussed at the outset. Clear guidelines enable a good working relationship with hospital staff - at all levels.
Some solicitors charge a reduced fee if you take out both LPA's together.
I have a friend who has LPOA for her husband but because she doesn't have H&W she has been told she can't make decisions regarding her husband's medical situation. Next of kin s not recognised and she has been told she now now needs to go to Court of protection.
That's odd as Deputyship, ie CoP, is rarely given for H&W.
I can only speak from personal experience of course but I never had any problem. DNR was arranged along with any other medical decision.
I was even allowed copies of all my husband's medical notes from the GP surgery and access to all his files of hospital notes when I was applying for CHC funding. They were satisfied just to see the basic Deputyship certificate which was of course just for legal and financial.
Your friend must have been unlucky.
However, as I've already said earlier, if getting one LPA, it's probably as well to get both at the same time.
I can only speak from personal experience of course but I never had any problem. DNR was arranged along with any other medical decision.
I was even allowed copies of all my husband's medical notes from the GP surgery and access to all his files of hospital notes when I was applying for CHC funding. They were satisfied just to see the basic Deputyship certificate which was of course just for legal and financial.
Your friend must have been unlucky.
However, as I've already said earlier, if getting one LPA, it's probably as well to get both at the same time.
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