Your advice please....

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by abby, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. abby

    abby Registered User

    Dec 19, 2006
    182
    West Country
    Good morning,

    I have just joined and am so pleased and relieved I have found someone / where who will understand whatever I say......
    After watching Dad get forgetful and leaving sticky notes everywhere for a couple of years ( he lived far away so there were probably other signs that went unoticed ) we finally persuaded him to move closer, with the promise we would do everything, which we did. So four months ago he arived and the full extent of his lifestle became evident. Taken out of his comfort zone we soon realised that it was habit and routine that had disguised in the past. In the last 4 months he has deteriorated considerbly......memory loss has gone from forgetting what he had for lunch a couple of times a week to not even worth asking anymore :(
    He can't find the correct descriptive word to use, and everything is ' the thing ' followed by a childlike description....rubbish wheelie bin for example is the ' tall thing with a lid and wheels that you put stuff in that you want to throw away '...
    His short term memory is non exsistant, easily confused, often seen just staring out vacantly. Sometimes we only have 3 conversations during a long visit, but they are repeated 5, 6 or 7 tims each...is very hard work. I have been lifting him out of the bath ( I have severe Angina and classed as disabled myself ) until it was causing me pain...so we got him a bath lift.....
    We bulk cook and freeze one person home cooked meals for him.....but he nearly set the microwave on fire twice...he then complained the ' ham ' was a bit tough......he had eaten raw gammon steak.....we have now arrnged meals on wheels.....we can't be there at 3 meal times a day....this way he is obviously safer both health wise and kitchen wise......he has also started ' stashing ' food....

    We did do an EPA, and for that I am so pleased, but this last weekend he seems to have lost the family link. Despite us being with him everyday ( which he can't remember and says he is lonely and gets no visitors ) he knows us, as in putting a name to us ( well two of us anyway - my other children are ' the bin lady ' and the woman who brings the little girl around ' ( granddaughter and great G/D )....but he has lost that we are family somehow....there was a distinct time 3 weeks ago when we all noted seperatly this had happened, he simply became ' distanced ' with us. Should we remind him, he says ' yes dear ofcourse i kno who you are ' but he is different with us.
    I have made sure he has had a full medical MOT and 3 weeks ago had the results of his CT scan and immediatly put on Aricept.....
    I have Social Services doing an assesment when ever they an get there and have got him Attendance Allowance too......
    Now, my dilema ( apart from being exhaustd and feeling isolated ) my head tells me to register the EPA now, my heart says I should wait as long as possible, allowing him his dignity etc for as long as possible. Nearly everyday I see a deterioration of some kind...but because they are all just little bits each time I think ' oh thats not too bad ' .....on the rare occasion I am able to stand back and look at the whole picture..from start to finish...his decline is so swift and his loss of so many things..I know I should.....I guess it's timing....I know I have to do it but when is the right time?
    He has already been caught by a con man who relieved him of cash and cheque so I have authority on all accounts anyway.....but the law says ' as soon as I believe is has become or becoming incapable of managing his financial affairs '
    If I tell him he needs to sign a cheque for the gas bill....he wants to keep writing them as he forgets he has done it, but the stubs that tell him that don't abate the problem only confuse him.

    Oh my word.....how long is this post? :eek: sorry.......phew think I have just offloaded...for the first time...and you lucky people got it...lol
    Any advice would be greatfully recieved....thank you
     
  2. Tender Face

    Tender Face Account Closed

    Mar 14, 2006
    5,379
    NW England
    Dear Abby

    Welcome to TP .... although that also means sorry you find yourself and dad in the situation you are ......

    It might help you to sift through this thread .... posted by me a few weeks back when I was going through similar 'emotions' ....

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/TalkingPoint/discuss/showthread.php?t=4620

    What helped me put aside the 'emotional' and make a more objective judgment was to write down all the 'evidence' I had that mum was no longer capable with money matters ... confronting myself with that list made me realise, that in my situation, there was really no choice to be made at all but to fulfil that legal obligation ... (which remember we have committed to out of care and concern ... it's hardly in our own interests as carers to volunteer for yet more 'tasks' to undertake).

    On a practical level I don't know how I would have ever managed thus far had mum's bills not already been set up on standing orders and direct debits ....

    Offload all you need to, Abby ... lots of people here to help,

    Love, Karen (TF), x
     
  3. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    Welcome!

    Hello Abby

    Welcome to TP. Feel free to post anytime and share frustrations - it's a great place!

    I've pasted below the AS factsheet link for you. As Karen has mentioned the link she's pasted also covers loads of questions and comments about EPA and the various scenarios that fellow TPers have experienced.

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/After_diagnosis/Sorting_out_your_money/info_epa.htm

    I too have had to go down the EPA route. Have not yet registered it, but I can see that time won't be long.

    Will be thinking about you.

    Take care
     
  4. abby

    abby Registered User

    Dec 19, 2006
    182
    West Country
    #4 abby, Dec 20, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2006
    Karen

    Thank you ...really......reading your link was nearly mirror image of our life.....some bits really hit home more than other and only mimic my mental thrashing about and indecision

    'Originally Posted by Rosalind
    ..., and while it is unlikely he would do anything wildly stupid with his money an unscrupulous con merchant could probably get him to sign absolutely anything, so it has to be done.'

    This has already happened.......:(

    And the ' intermittingly lucid ' couldn't be more true... I never quite know what I will find every day......a bad day complete with grumps, being irrational and total confusion or standing there hands on hips telling me I am late ( we have a diary with Dad so he can see whats happening / happened each day and who's coming that day.....I also have kept my own dairy, noting points as he deteriates....)

    I also am worried about telling Dad I will be registering. If it's on a good day he will totally agree it's the best thing to do.....but on a bad day......he metaphorically stamps his feet in a childlike fashion......either way he will forget within he hour anyway so I would have to start all over again.....but morally I feel compelled to tell him else I don't know how I will cope with the guilt.

    And as for the ' debit ' card......well are you sure you haven't met Dad.......:rolleyes: this is sooooo him......I take him to choose his own shopping every week ( he tried to by 17 bars of assorted chocolate last time ) and have to make sure he leaves his card and any cash at home now as he has dropped / lost both before and despite being told to carry in his inside pocket...forgets and moves it....we get to the checkout to have to search all his clothes for it :rolleyes: ...now it's all left behind and I deal with it...BUT..his card is HIS !!!

    Our EPOA is lodged with the solicitor.......should I get it back and do the registration myself.? Is it easy enough? Or should I let him do it?

    I also have many Q's on how to deal with the various day to day probs...like do I continually correct him at the risk of making him feel useless or just let it all go over my head? But I guess I need to ask these in a different forum?

    Again thank you for replying I don't feel like I am the only one going through this now....

    edit to add.....Lucille, thank you....can't believe there is a community out there in the ether the same as me.......I can't tell you how liberating this feels as I can't / won't talk honestly from my prospective to his grandchildren ( don't want to upsept them or feel judged )

    Abby x
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    Hi Abby, and welcome.

    Registering the EPA - always a thorny issue! As you say, it's not just the practical side, it's the emotional baggage that comes along with it. It does sound, from what you say, that you have reach the appropriate point. Whether you get your solicitor to send off the papers, or do it yourself I think depends on whether you want to spend money on the solicitor as well as the money registering it. The guides on the guardianship site are very clear, and I understand that their helpline is also very helpful. Regarding telling him - he is supposed to be notified (with some exceptions) but you don't have to KEEP notifying him - pick a good day and simply tell him, but expect that he will forget. As he's already come across a con man (and it's remarkable really how few of these parasites seem to find our sufferers) you know the dangers, but it sounds as if it could have been far worse. Without an EPA your father is still able to enter into a contract, which could be considerably more draining financially than losing the money in his wallet. With an EPA, he still may sign things but at least they wouldn't be legally enforceable.

    Regarding correcting him: I think we've all struggled with this in one way or the other. However you handle it, the thing to remember is he CAN"T remember. Each repetition of a question is a new question as far as he is concerned, and you have to do what you need to to keep your own sanity. Personally I lurch from painstakingly explaining to changing the subject, to explaining again. It has as much to do with my own capacity to cope at any given time as any functionality in my mother. She also has good and bad days, but while she might retain some knowledge while she's having a good day, as soon as the bad one comes, that new knowledge has gone.

    Jennifer
     
  6. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london

    you could learn from my mistake 4 years on have not registrer it , now my
    solicitor .
    can not find the original , as the
    solicitor
    who I originally done it with has amalgamated with a new solitary and he can not find it , my mother bank has it , so have to write of to them to get there copy of mum EPOA.

    If I had know of TP in 02 , I would not have felt so much emotional emotions in registering my mother EPOA , also in my defense . I was in Gibraltar when I was told my mother had AZ , even thought the EPOA was done in UK .

    You do it, do not leave it to your father, he only forget. Get right confused . Tell him that your doing it, because that’s the only way they will let you help him with his finances. I feel your in a no win situation in telling him, your just have to word it right. My mother was glad to leave it all up to me. So when I told her that I have to send EPOA to the court because she wanted me to take care of her finances , she just said OK. if I ever find a cope now . I have guardianship any way with all her benefits pensions, because I sent my cope of EPOA of to them years ago . I have the choice to put her money in my account if I wanted to
     
  7. Tender Face

    Tender Face Account Closed

    Mar 14, 2006
    5,379
    NW England
    Nice to know I'm not the only one, Abby! Cheers!

    If it's any help the regsitration process IS simple - and whilst I consulted a solicitor for advice was not prepared to pay them the earth for doing what I could do thanks to the advice and links posted here at a cost of a bit of stationery and postage ... (the registration fee stands whoever does it, of course).

    I confess one of the reasons I consulted a solicitor was regarding the 'telling' - (i.e. trying to avoid it) I do understand what you mean about feeling 'compelled' but as solicitor pointed out from the guidance notes, the only way NOT to tell and keep everything 'legal' is to get medical evidence that to do so would be distressing.... How then and how much more distressing to then explain that later to someone on a 'good day'????

    Took me a few visits to mum to 'find the right time' - and even then I'm afraid I did it under some misapprehension of my own (from advice I'd got from her bank) ... been worrying myself sick, still, about having to tell her she won't ever have a debit card of her own ... but have continued compiling that list .... including how she has managed (not) to handle even the cash I've been providing these last few weeks ... what bit of Christmas shopping she has managed for herself would be more fitting to share in the Tea Room ..... and my plan is to gently explain to her all the reasons I have felt the need to protect her..... having now 'proven' she can manage without.... (card, not money!)

    I'm still working on the missing 'thousands' in cash she has managed to withdraw this year...... expected to find it 'stashed' but seeing, as an example, I have since found out she thinks it's fitting to give £50 to the 'step-grandchild of a friend twice removed' for Christmas ... (mum's not on the poverty line, but she's sure no lottery winner either) ... it's not just the day to day writing of cheques etc but the whole concept of value...... and whilst it may be lovely to be financially generous ... she has no concept either that one day she may need to help finance the care she may need when I can no longer meet her needs.....

    Sorry, that's me rambling,:eek:

    Love, Karen
     
  8. abby

    abby Registered User

    Dec 19, 2006
    182
    West Country
    I have never thought about my sanity yet.....been so wrapped up worrying and doing the pracical stuf of moving him and settling him in...docs and hospitals etc.....but that comment has made me stop and think....I am his only daughter ( whether he remembers that or not :( ) and if I drive myself into the ground what will happen then......but you have made me think....I know I have no life atm, nor expect to have one now ( omg how selfish does that sound ? Just there's no other way to say the truth.....) and accept that...

    Well he was having a good day...! So having gone around the houses many times and verbally slapping myself for being a coward......I said the words....it's just so hard....my proud, strong Dad, some of which has gone..I just feel so disloyal....I was also VERY aware of not ' selling ' it......equally tried not to play it down to much......finding the line but to deliver wih loving kind words was one of the hardest things I have ever done...and I feel pretty **** atm........

    You ladies ( or gents..sorry :rolleyes: ) by chatting have helped me see through my mist.....I realise one of my problems is that I am already grieving.....grieving for every little bit of my lovely Dad that is no longer there......all his ' ways' and scruples I grew up with are being taken away.....but only I know this.....he doesn't know he used to bath on Wednesdays and Sundays anymore...he has / is losing all the principles etc that he has insisted on all his life......how very very sad....so am I upset for me or him, both or what? I just feel so responsible for him now but couldn't bear to have him hurt or upset, especially because of my actions....

    For dad the positive thing I have discovered today, thank you, is that every day, question, meals on wheels selection etc is a complete new suprise for him...... just living from one day to the next....no torment from the past just today.......and it has no relevance to what he did or said yesturday...actually in a macarbre way that's sort of a nice place for him to be.....

    Well we spoke and he agreed, although I had to explain it 4 times......just hope I don't feel the daily need to reiterate.....or is that just my conscience?

    Thank you everyone
     
  9. Amy

    Amy Registered User

    Jan 4, 2006
    3,453
    Well done Abby,
    There is no need to reiterate, unless a situation arises where dad needs you to - just get on and get it registered now. You have done nothing that requires you to have a conscience - you are doing what is in your dad's best interest, the same way that he cared for and protected your interests when you were younger - the circle of life, so to speak.
    Love Helen
     
  10. Momx4

    Momx4 Registered User

    Oct 19, 2006
    25
    Hello Abby

    My mother has vascular dementia and sadly, she has become rapidly worse this year. However when Mum signed the first document, she was still able to understand that its purpose was so that we could help her sort out bills and paperwork and she agreed that my brother and I should act jointly and severally. This was a relief to her as she was aware of her mental changes at that time and worried constantly about being forgetful.

    This year, another series of TIAs/strokes meant mum's mental state deteriorated beyond responsibility for any personal care or safety and certainly any decision making, so we lodged the documents with a solicitor. All I will say is that the process seems to be extremely slow... so many weeks for this to be signed and returned and then to obtain such and such.

    I don't know whether anyone else found the procedure very long-winded, but if my experience is anything to go by, I would move fairly quickly to get things started.

    Good luck with everything and I would endorse your view that the support here is wonderful.
     
  11. abby

    abby Registered User

    Dec 19, 2006
    182
    West Country
    Oh should I be collating any supporting evidence or anything then :confused: ? I was led to believe when the first form was signed was that should it ever be needed, registering it was simply a case of sending it in while legally informing certain family members etc....then waiting the 35 days.......:confused:
     
  12. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    No, you're right. This is, of course, another reason to go the DIY route - it seems to take solicitors weeks to receive and pass on forms.

    Jennifer
     
  13. abby

    abby Registered User

    Dec 19, 2006
    182
    West Country
    Thank you Jennifer

    Seeing as the original is lodged with the brief, do you suspect I may have a battle getting it from him? What is the best ploy to retrieve said document.....:(
    ............... or am I just being weak and pathetic :(
     
  14. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    Well, you never know - they do like to keep their little fingers in the pie, as it were. I would call him up and tell him you're coming to collect it - better than waiting for them to mail it to you. If they say "oh we can register it for you" simply say you'd prefer to do it yourself. Hopefully (see Margarita's post) they haven't lost it! I'm not sure why so many people leave these with solicitors - my solicitor suggested that I keep hold of it rather than putting it in their vault with my mother's will.

    Jennifer
     
  15. abby

    abby Registered User

    Dec 19, 2006
    182
    West Country
    Because surely this is our property? So assuming I can fight through the ' selling ' of his services...he shouldn't be able to withold it?
     
  16. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    Oh no, he can't withold it - just make you push for it. You know, you're doing what I do: crossing your bridges before you come to them (or before they're even built ho ho). If it's anything like most solicitors, it won't even come across his desk - it'll be dealt with by a clerk.
     
  17. cynron

    cynron Registered User

    Sep 26, 2005
    429
    east sussex
    epa

    I had no problems with getting the epa from the solicitor i just told them i was going to register it with THE COURT OF PROTECTION myself so saving the £200 the solicitor wanted for this service:eek:

    Cynron x x
     
  18. abby

    abby Registered User

    Dec 19, 2006
    182
    West Country
    Right then :D ......I shall contact him in the morning....and report back :)

    Goodness I have come so far in 24 hours.......I feel clearer.....stronger and in control, rather than the condition / situation controlling me...and I was always 2 paces behind through lack of knowledge, carrying all my own baggage, seeing no where to share / offload......and just blundering in the dark

    Thank you everyone....what a wonderful site this is with fantastic people......I am amazed at not only how many are here, but the similarities are frightening. I have just read through the thread on Xmas day ( Karen I think ) and was :eek: at how many of you have parents that days are governed by the TV.......Dad almost goes into a trance when watching...and gets real grumpy if any visitor is there when he wants to watch something and they are likely to disrupt that...

    Abby
    x
     
  19. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Abby long before my Mother got to the stage of your Dad I put the EPA into action because there were so many bills unpaid and paperwork was all out everywhere instead of being locked away

    Sadly its vital now you register that EPA and completely take over

    Your Father wont even notice and will actually fast forget he ever got bills or could write a cheque

    Just remove everything and contact everyone .......utility companies will immediately put the account on direct debit
    as will others you wont even have to show them the EPA just tell them you have it and you want all bills sent to you and give them his bank account

    It was only a matter of weeks before my Mother became totally incapable of even knowing what money was
     
  20. abby

    abby Registered User

    Dec 19, 2006
    182
    West Country
    Helena

    Thank you..yes...I also think part of MY problem was the speed of his descent.....going from ' just old age ' creeping up to having the ' cloud ' removed and the diagnosis in just a few months....

    I was and still maybe in shock to some degree.....have held together and done everything I should both legally and morally along with his care....but still feel I have been ' chasing ' this indeterminate ' thing '.....

    Dad regularly asks where his money ' comes ' from etc..no recollection of pensions etc....and I pay all his bills for him anyway

    In 4 short months he has gone from still capable to eating raw gammon and paying con men at the door.....:mad:

    This is such a revelation......typing and reading my posts back, along with all the replies...is slapping me sooo hard around the face.....it's there in front of me.....why couldn't I see it before? Maybe because I had no outlet / advice / experiences / release valve.....don't know...but it's glaring obvious to me now...

    Abby
    x
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.