Worried about losing home - Mums Care

[Snafs]

Hi
I think if your mum has more than 23250 in the bank she would be fully self funding for domiciallary care but any less than that I believe there is a sliding scale of contributions she would need to make.
I sincerely hope that you can get her home . You may find like me that one day she may need full time care but hopefully only at the very end and not for months or years on end. I would look into making things as safe as possible for her in the eyes of SS and perhaps try to hold back on the "what about me?" line as it seems to be like a red rag to a bull for Social services. If mum would be self funding , make some enquiries with agencies and show willing to pay the bill and organise it so they have less need to step in and throw their weight around.

I have already told social she has less than half that around.
She's been assessed twice for continued NHS funding (if that's what you mean) and it a million miles away from that, looking at the few pages of A, B, C questions, you need to be pretty poorly in a few areas to get that, and mums not.
Oh yes, I'm in no doubt one day she will need full time (professional?) care, as I probably will do if I live that long! and most people here. It happens to us all, barring an unexpected event.

Yes you are right, I can't press the "what about me" line with them, every time I see them, as they are not interested and will if anything work against me.

In my mind if they going to charge mum and me more to get 4 carers in per day, than I get paid in wages. Then really what's the point of me working?
I can't pay that much (not amazing salary), Mums small savings would be totally soaked up by them in perhaps 6 months if perhaps it's £20 x 4 per day (total guess)
Hence, It has been in my mind, perhaps that is an answer.
Give up work, tighten our belts and see it thru.

And yes I'm disgusted by the carers allowance.
So they want perhaps £1500 a week from us for a care home, but if I give up work to do that for them, I'll get £65 ish !
Totally disgusting.

 

[Theresalwaystomorrow]

Don’t pack in your job, honestly I don’t recommend it.
For the last 2 yrs iv finished my job to become carer, big mistake, they expect you to do everything for £62 a week £8 a day!!!!
I gave up 22k and company car for this, disgusting!
Attendance allowance goes on 2 x Resbite days, help with shower Rota ect so don’t get that either!
And carers not taken into consideration? Joke!!
I had better leave it there I could go on all night fighting this corner but a seriously hope you get to stay in YOUR home and your mum gets the care she deserves, keep posting
Take care

 

[canary]

If your mum is at home and she has less than £14,000 in savings then she wont get charged for carers coming in.

It is only when your mum goes into a care home that the house will be considered.

You might also consider day care for when you are at work, that way she wont be on her own (you wouldnt be charged for that either if she has under £14,000).

Stop panicking - there will be a way through. As next of kin your views will be taken into consideration unless the SW thinks that you are only thinking about your own position. Work out how you can show that she would be safe at home - maybe a combination of carers and day care - and then push for that, SS would normally go for any other option that a care home, so you would stand a good chance.

But if you keep on putting everything off and going on about what will happen to you then SS will step in and take over and the most like;y outcome then would be going into a care home.

 

[jenniferpa]

Paying for in home care can be complex but there are a few things to consider.

1) only the person receiving the care may have their assets assessed.

2) home ownership is completely irrelevant.

3) that person must be left with a minimum income after payment of any assessed care charges.

Regarding upper and lower capital limits. It's clear that a person who has more than the upper capital limit is entirely responsible for the cost of their care whether it is in their own home or in a care home. But below the upper limit I'm not sure how the limits apply. I'm going to page @Pete R because I think he has a good handle on this.

 

[Pete R]

Thanks for that Jenniferpa but you are correct in what you have said and any care at home would more than likely be paid for by the LA.

However I do not think talk of this is actually any help to the OP. We see on here on a regular basis SS pushing for people to be discharged back home with a care package in place even when it seems a ridiculous decision which is probably just a tick box to say they at least tried..

Here it is not being suggested by the hospital SS at all and the reasons are unclear even though I did ask. Maybe the care needed is more than they can supply especially at night. There is no PoA and the Mother seems happy where she is and would probably transition quite well into a CH environment.

 

[jenniferpa]

@Pete R - it's not clear to me how the upper/ lower assets limits impact on payment for in home care. Do they do you think?

 

[Louise7]

@Pete R - it's not clear to me how the upper/ lower assets limits impact on payment for in home care. Do they do you think?

I'm not entirely sure how the costs are calculated but as a 'ball park' figure, my Mum had £10k savings and income of a state pension, AA, pension credit and a tiny occ. pension. Her contribution to 3 carer visits a day (3 days a week) 1 carer visit (Sat & Sun) plus 2 full days at a day centre (including transport) was £69 weekly. This was paid for out of Mum's pension/AA without touching her savings. I think (if his Mum is coming home) the OP really needs to wait for a financial assessment before panicking about leaving his job as they are not going to charge his Mum more than she can afford. That's not how it works.

 

[Snafs]

Another mostly sleepless night, with me dreaming of some old caravan I'm having to live in.
Waking up to try and knock the thoughts of various means of bring it to and end as no one in authority is listening yet.
Still can't believe social care lady and her boss, and the boss asking the questions had a quite strong american accent. I mean that's just nuts, asking old people who have trouble anyway, things with an accent.
They seemed to have an agenda like a dog with a bone, all very strange.
I may call Samaritans today & perhaps write or start to write a letter to my MP, though it said I can email him or use the website, I guess a physical latter would be better, thought it said a couple weeks at least before may get any reply? Sit and wait?

To hark back on something said a few posts back.
Is that correct in that, if mum did come home with some care in place, then, given she has less than £10,000 life savings she would not have to pay, nor would they look to the home to get the money to pay for this? I never knew this.

The two social workers seem to be basing their entire decision on "She is at risk of falls"
Yet she's never fallen at this new hospital, only did at the old one due to medication effects, and they did not even wish themselves to view her walking to make their own judgement.

It seems all that's happened, is:

1: Mum had the fall at home (medication)
2: Went to 1st hospital where she was very weak and went down hill further as they continued with the same medication for a few weeks before I found out, and had a couple of falls there, about 2 weeks apart.

This was I believe mid November time.

That was the last fall.

3: They transferred her to this new hospital for a bit more longer term recuperation, and they told me, at the time she'd be taught basic home skills again, how to make a cup of tea, use the microwave, get dressed and washed, none of which I think has ever happened.

4: Due to the note they got from the last hospital about falls, they stuck an alarm on her so she could not get up and walk without someone knowing. And a zimmer frame.

5: Social are simply reading this "at high risk from falls" and accepting it.

Then there is only me, at the weekend, giving mum a test, walking her further than I think any of the nurses ever have done, right to the door of the hospital, and getting her to carry the zimmer frame (whilst I has my arms hovering by the side of her just in case)

How can she carry a zimmer frame perhaps 30 ft and yet be on an alarm saying she's at danger of falling, and social did not even want to see this?

Mum did wish to come home 2 weeks ago, it's just in those last 2 weeks, she's mentally cleared a bit more got to know a few of the people in other beds, and the nurses, and thinks she quite likes it there, hence she's now saying she wants to stay there.

 

[Theresalwaystomorrow]

Morning
I too had a restless night with this on my mind.
I think mayb what others are saying it won’t be as bad as you think so mayb have plan b in place for your actions but try and relax a little now and let it take its course.
Iv discussed things with my MP and he has been absolutely brilliant, hes totally up for the argument that people who save, pay twice.!
1) when they work all their lives and pay NI which enables and helps towards everybody getting nhs
2) when theve worked, saved, and paid mortgages and gone without other things to do that yet pay again for their care when time comes ??
I just don’t get it ‍♀️

 

[Snafs]

Morning
I too had a restless night with this on my mind.
I think mayb what others are saying it won’t be as bad as you think so mayb have plan b in place for your actions but try and relax a little now and let it take its course.
Iv discussed things with my MP and he has been absolutely brilliant, hes totally up for the argument that people who save, pay twice.!
1) when they work all their lives and pay NI which enables and helps towards everybody getting nhs
2) when theve worked, saved, and paid mortgages and gone without other things to do that yet pay again for their care when time comes ??
I just don’t get it ‍♀️

Thanks for your care (and of course everyone else who has posted on my, now, long thread)
What's against me I fear is time.
Feels like I'd need 6 months to finally get to the right people and get initial meetings out the way to get secondary meetings, then those people speaking to others, and somethings actually form together.
Meanwhile I have social, probably contacting me in a few days time to go look around care homes.

It's like they simply are not listening to any of my issues. I'm crumbling as a person inside, having bad thoughts, not sleeping much, can't do anything much use at work, and they seem to be speaking to me and expecting things from me as if nothings wrong.

I did wonder, do "I" need to contact a social worker myself? I don't even know how to begin, or will speaking to others cause this to just happen when other people speak to other people?

 

[Pete R]

@Pete R - it's not clear to me how the upper/ lower assets limits impact on payment for in home care. Do they do you think?

Ageuk FS 46........

4.7 Capital and maximum charges Capital is most often your savings, but it can include other assets such as land or valuable possessions. Upper capital limit The upper capital limit in the financial assessment is £23,250. If you have more than this, you may be asked to pay the full cost of maximum local authority charge for your care. A local authority can be more generous if it wishes. ‘Tariff’ income calculation Capital between £14,250 and £23,250 is assessed as producing an assumed or ‘tariff’ income. For every £250, or part of £250, between £14,250 and £23,250, you are assessed as if you have an extra £1 a week in income. For example, if you have capital of £14,400, the local authority treats you as having a tariff income of £1 a week.

 

[Snafs]

I have found the name of my MP

Also Local and District Councillors

Should I draft a letter and try and send a copy to them all ?

 

[Louise7]

I've just had a quick look through your thread and I can't see that a 'best interest's' meeting has been held yet? This usually takes place when someone is considered medically fit to be discharged but there may be ongoing care needs. One was held when my Mum was in hospital due to a fall and it was attended by the individual (or their representative) a doctor, Occ Therapist, social worker etc. They discussed health issues and the home situation and came to an agreement about what was best for Mum. This is an opportunity to speak to everyone involved and question what they are saying, if necessary. Have you requested one of these yet? It seems to me that this needs to be undertaken first - to enable a decision to be made - before worrying about finances, writing to MP's etc.

You need to know what the decision is with regards your Mum's future care and from what you have posted there doesn't actually seem to be one yet.

 

[Pete R]

To hark back on something said a few posts back.
Is that correct in that, if mum did come home with some care in place, then, given she has less than £10,000 life savings she would not have to pay, nor would they look to the home to get the money to pay for this? I never knew this.

It has been mentioned a few times that if your Mother came home with a care package then the house is safe. She may get charged a small amount for the care or even nothing at all. This can only be determined after a Financial Assessment.

 

[canary]

I've just had a quick look through your thread and I can't see that a 'best interest's' meeting has been held yet? ...................... You need to know what the decision is with regards your Mum's future care and from what you have posted there doesn't actually seem to be one yet.

I agree Louise. The decision could well be that she can go home with carers/day centre and no, or minimum, charges and Snafs has got into a pickle for no reason.

I believe, though, that he is so worried about losing his home, that he has resisted any decision about his mums future.
I had originally assumed that there had been a Best Interest Meeting and SS had already decided that she would be going into a care home, but now I am not so sure

 

[Snafs]

I've just had a quick look through your thread and I can't see that a 'best interest's' meeting has been held yet? This usually takes place when someone is considered medically fit to be discharged but there may be ongoing care needs. One was held when my Mum was in hospital due to a fall and it was attended by the individual (or their representative) a doctor, Occ Therapist, social worker etc. They discussed health issues and the home situation and came to an agreement about what was best for Mum. This is an opportunity to speak to everyone involved and question what they are saying, if necessary. Have you requested one of these yet? It seems to me that this needs to be undertaken first - to enable a decision to be made - before worrying about finances, writing to MP's etc.

You need to know what the decision is with regards your Mum's future care and from what you have posted there doesn't actually seem to be one yet.

Yes, as far as I'm aware that was what happened yesterday.

Two weeks ago One social worker met with myself and mum, and she took notes and asked mum about things, and asked mum for permission to speak to her doctor and the hospital, she told me, she's be in touch soon.

Then yesterdays meeting was arranged, with the same lady, and her American boss, to come and chat to mum and me, find out what mum wanted and move from there.

She/they looked at mums medical notes, took us to a side room, and spoke to mum a bit, asking where she wanted to go (mum said she wanted to stay where she was)

That's when I said, would you like me to show you mum walking a bit, to which they said no.

A nurse was called, took mum away, then they spoke to me, and asked me for my views.

What were the pro's and con's in my mind about mum going to another place to be fully looked after. I said, well, I want what's best for mum, and who can argue that full care would be a bad thing.
Pro's are mum would be looked after 24/7 etc.
Con's not a lot for mum, but of course I did have to mention the funding aspect (which is what they are not interested in)

The American lady basically said, she either looked at or asked about my initial query re 50 years at home since age 7 and basically dismissed it out of hand.

They then looked at me sympathetically for a few minutes, in a "what a shame, but there is nothing we can do for you" kinda way, and said we will be in touch in a few days time so you can start looking at care homes for mum.

And that was that.

I went back to mum after they left, tried to explain again, they were not going to let her stay there, which she got a bit upset over, and the home was mentioned, and mum kept repeating "THEY CAN'T TAKE YOUR HOME" it's yours. i won't let them.
"Get the solicitor here now, I'll sign it over to you, it's all yours etc etc"

I had to calm mum and say it does not work like that, but in her mind I think this is still what she see's as the outcome.

So I go back home alone and wait for the next phone call.

 

[Louise7]

I went back to mum after they left, tried to explain again, they were not going to let her stay there, which she got a bit upset over, and the home was mentioned, and mum kept repeating "THEY CAN'T TAKE YOUR HOME" it's yours. i won't let them.
"Get the solicitor here now, I'll sign it over to you, it's all yours etc etc"

I had to calm mum and say it does not work like that, but in her mind I think this is still what she see's as the outcome.

Your Mum is reacting the way she is because of what you are telling her. You are discussing the situation in negative terms - based on your own perspective - and this is clearly upsetting her, which is in turn upsetting you. I know that you are in a difficult position personally but try to avoid using language which is going to upset/distress your Mum. I'm currently in the position of having to sell my Mum's home (which has been in the family for 90 years) but I'm not discussing this with Mum at all as I know that it will upset/distress her.

 

[Snafs]

I agree Louise. The decision could well be that she can go home with carers/day centre and no, or minimum, charges and Snafs has got into a pickle for no reason.

I believe, though, that he is so worried about losing his home, that he has resisted any decision about his mums future.
I had originally assumed that there had been a Best Interest Meeting and SS had already decided that she would be going into a care home, but now I am not so sure

Please see what I just posted above.
I'm pretty sure the Best Interests Meeting was what happened yesterday.

If mum had SCREAMED "I want to go home, I want to go home" then I feel they could not have ignored that.
Instead, whilst mum DID say that 2 weeks ago, she's since got more settled there, knows the staff more and others in the ward, so had got comfy in the environment, so now just says "I want to stay here" and was quite adamant she did not wish to be moved (which can'r happen either way)

 

[Snafs]

Hence why I am wondering if now is the urgent time to write a letter and send it to someone/them all, as it seems as far as they were concerned yesterday. Mums going in a home, I did not have any REAL objections from a "mums health" point of view, and how could I?
Funding will come from the family home, and I'm disregarded.
That seemed to be the gist of it.

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for the 1st talk with someone, after seeing my doctor last monday, to talk about my long running mental issues that have meant this is how my life as as it is.

 

[Beate]

I have found the name of my MP

Also Local and District Councillors

Should I draft a letter and try and send a copy to them all ?

You haven't even had a financial assessment yet nor any decision on where your Mum should live! They won't be able to intervene much until then. Grab the bull by the horns and get that out the way, then you know what's what. You need to have a meeting with SS and get your point across, but you also need to listen to them. In my experience, the decision for a care home is not made lightly by SS as its expensive for them if they have to fund it. You have been given tons of good advice but you keep going round in circles. If you want your Mum back home you must make a proper case for it and accept help with her care. As you've been told, your Mum will most likely not be charged for any care at home. Obviously the house can't be counted towards the assets for that while she's still living in it. That only becomes an issue once she'd leave it to live in a care home.