Working Whilst Caring - The Rules

[scousemouse9536]

Hi Everyone

I have asked about this before but I just want to check I’m doing the right thing, as the rules may have changed. I get carer’s allowance as I care for my mum and I’ve been trying for a while now to find a part time job that fits in, to get me out of the house and earn a bit of money. I’ve read that I can earn £116.00 a week whilst still receiving carer’s allowance. If I accept a job and the take home pay after deductions is £150.00 per week, am I right in thinking that the £34.00 over the limit, has to put in to a private pension but has to be doubled to a figure of £68.00, so they disregard £34.00 so that I only receive £116.00? Confusing right? If this is the case, do I ask the employer to put the £68.00 in to a pension or do I do that myself? The job I’ve applied for is just in a cafe and the days/hours are likely to be up and down so it would make sense for me to put deal with any additional payment but I find it very confusing and the hassle of it almost puts me off! Has everyone else who’s taken on a part time job, informed the Carer’s allowance unit and did you find it straight forward or a bit of a pain? Is there an ideal weekly wage I should have in mind?

Thanks for any advise in advance.

 

[Beate]

I have no idea what you mean by double the pension then disregard half of it. You might be confusing some rules. You cannot have more than £116 after taxes a week. If it's more than that you don't qualify anymore. So if you can get your employer to put some of it in a pension before the take home pay is calculated, fine, but I don't think you doing it yourself would qualify, and I don't know how this would work if your wages are not going to be the same every week.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @scousemouse9536
I think you are referring to this part of the booklet (my italics and underlining)
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/threads/working-whilst-caring-the-rules.105486/


Who cannot get Carer’s Allowance?

You cannot get Carer’s Allowance if:
you earn more than £110 a week after we have taken some expenses into account. There is more informationabout this below
you are on a course of full time education
you are on holiday from a course of full time education
you are subject to immigration control. But there are some exceptions to this. To find out more please contactus on 0345 608 4321.
Earnings
Money you get from private or occupational pensions is not counted as earnings.
If you have a part-time job, you must not earn more than£110 a week.
Working out your weekly earnings
When we work out your weekly earnings we only look at what you have earned after you have paid
National Insurance (NI) contributions
income taxl
half of any money you pay towards personal and occupational pension schemes.
We also allow up to half of the rest of your earnings for paying someone from outside your family to look after children, or the person you look after, when you are at work.
Expenses
We may be able to take into account some other expenses
such as expenses you have to pay to do your job.
If you earn more than £110 a week
If you earn more than £110 a week, after we have taken money off for expenses, we will not be able to pay your Carer’s Allowance. How long your Carer's Allowance stops for depends on how often you are paid. For example, if you are paid monthly you will not be entitled to Carer’s Allowance for the month after you are paid. If you are paid weekly, you will not be entitled to it for the week after you are paid.


I have no idea how this would work in practice - maybe give the unit a call or email
phone number is 0345 608 4321.
These lines are open from 8.30am to 5.00pm Monday toThursday and 8.30am to 4.30pm on Friday.
you can email at cau.customer-services@dwp.gsi.gov.uk

 

[Duggies-girl]

@scousemouse9536


Hi I have looked into this as I work as a barmaid and hours are never the same and it sounds like a great idea..

It's called salary sacrifice and works well for high earners but if you are on minimum wage it can reduce your cash earnings to below the national living wage and that is not allowed. Your employee should know this.

You can put money into a private pension yourself but I don't know if that would count as it would not reduce your take home pay.

Very complicated.

 

[scousemouse9536]

@scousemouse9536


Hi I have looked into this as I work as a barmaid and hours are never the same and it sounds like a great idea..

It's called salary sacrifice and works well for high earners but if you are on minimum wage it can reduce your cash earnings to below the national living wage and that is not allowed. Your employee should know this.

You can put money into a private pension yourself but I don't know if that would count as it would not reduce your take home pay.

Very complicated.

Thanks for your reply. I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you mention salary sacrifice? I’m not in employment so not a high earner, I’m looking for employment.

 

[scousemouse9536]

hi @scousemouse9536
I think you are referring to this part of the booklet (my italics and underlining)
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/threads/working-whilst-caring-the-rules.105486/


Who cannot get Carer’s Allowance?

You cannot get Carer’s Allowance if:
you earn more than £110 a week after we have taken some expenses into account. There is more informationabout this below
you are on a course of full time education
you are on holiday from a course of full time education
you are subject to immigration control. But there are some exceptions to this. To find out more please contactus on 0345 608 4321.
Earnings
Money you get from private or occupational pensions is not counted as earnings.
If you have a part-time job, you must not earn more than£110 a week.
Working out your weekly earnings
When we work out your weekly earnings we only look at what you have earned after you have paid
National Insurance (NI) contributions
income taxl
half of any money you pay towards personal and occupational pension schemes.
We also allow up to half of the rest of your earnings for paying someone from outside your family to look after children, or the person you look after, when you are at work.
Expenses
We may be able to take into account some other expenses
such as expenses you have to pay to do your job.
If you earn more than £110 a week
If you earn more than £110 a week, after we have taken money off for expenses, we will not be able to pay your Carer’s Allowance. How long your Carer's Allowance stops for depends on how often you are paid. For example, if you are paid monthly you will not be entitled to Carer’s Allowance for the month after you are paid. If you are paid weekly, you will not be entitled to it for the week after you are paid.


I have no idea how this would work in practice - maybe give the unit a call or email
phone number is 0345 608 4321.
These lines are open from 8.30am to 5.00pm Monday toThursday and 8.30am to 4.30pm on Friday.
you can email at cau.customer-services@dwp.gsi.gov.uk

Thanks for your reply. I’m already receiving carer’s allowance. I’m trying to get back in to part time work so need to check the rules on earnings. The above is out of date, for your own info it’s now £116.00 per week.

 

[Duggies-girl]

Looked at shedrechs post

Thanks for your reply. I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you mention salary sacrifice? I’m not in employment so not a high earner, I’m looking for employment.

Salary sacrifice is used by high earners to reduce income tax. If you are paying the higher rate of income tax 40% on over £45,000 a year, you can sacrifice some of your salary by putting it into your work place pension to bring your wage down to below the £45,000 threshold putting yourself in the lower tax band.

Very complicated i know but I read somewhere that you cannot sacrifice salary to the extent that your earnings take you below the minimum wage level.

What you are proposing to do is earn a lower amount of money whilst doing more hours so it will reduce your hourly rate, sounds good but I am not sure it is allowed.

 

[Shedrech]

oh dear - copied it today from the gov website (and to be honest didn't read too carefully, except the bit I was looking for)
the key bit is:-

Working out your weekly earnings
When we work out your weekly earnings we only look at what you have earned after you have paid
National Insurance (NI) contributions
income tax
half of any money you pay towards personal and occupational pension schemes.

so it does imply what you said in your first post about having to pay double into a pension scheme - and you can have a personal pension scheme, though it may be worth asking an employer about the scheme that's advertised on TV (with the big monster!) as then you get the employer paying some contributions to your pension too

salary sacrifice is when you give up some of your salary to pay towards eg a pension; so it's just that, sacrificing getting some of your salary paid to you for having it paid into a pension plan (usually done before tax & NI are taken, so can be of benefit)

 

[scousemouse9536]

I have no idea what you mean by double the pension then disregard half of it. You might be confusing some rules. You cannot have more than £116 after taxes a week. If it's more than that you don't qualify anymore. So if you can get your employer to put some of it in a pension before the take home pay is calculated, fine, but I don't think you doing it yourself would qualify, and I don't know how this would work if your wages are not going to be the same every week.

Thanks Beats for your reply. This is taken from Carers UK:- “if you earn £120.00 a week (after tax and NI) you will not be entitled to Carer’s Allowance. However if you put £8.00 a week into a pension, half of the £8.00 can be deducted from your earnings. Your earnings for Carer’s Allowance would therefore be £120.00 - £4.00 = £116.00 a week. As this is not over the earnings limit, you could claim Carer’s Allowance”. What’s not clear is who makes arrangements for the £8.00 to go in to a pension, me or the employer or how it works if the hours are variable which it’s likely to be for a cafe. It’s as clear as mud. I think I need to ring them tomorrow and get it from the horse’s mouth. I just hope the person who picks up the phone knows what they’re talking about!

 

[scousemouse9536]

oh dear - copied it today from the gov website (and to be honest didn't read too carefully, except the bit I was looking for)
the key bit is:-

Working out your weekly earnings
When we work out your weekly earnings we only look at what you have earned after you have paid
National Insurance (NI) contributions
income tax
half of any money you pay towards personal and occupational pension schemes.

so it does imply what you said in your first post about having to pay double into a pension scheme - and you can have a personal pension scheme, though it may be worth asking an employer about the scheme that's advertised on TV (with the big monster!) as then you get the employer paying some contributions to your pension too

salary sacrifice is when you give up some of your salary to pay towards eg a pension; so it's just that, sacrificing getting some of your salary paid to you for having it paid into a pension plan (usually done before tax & NI are taken, so can be of benefit)

I understand now, it doesn’t apply to me as I’m not in work, I’m trying to get back in to it. Although it seems very complicated and is enough to put people off but I know I would feel much happier if I could get back to work for a few days a week.

 

[scousemouse9536]

Looked at shedrechs post


Salary sacrifice is used by high earners to reduce income tax. If you are paying the higher rate of income tax 40% on over £45,000 a year, you can sacrifice some of your salary by putting it into your work place pension to bring your wage down to below the £45,000 threshold putting yourself in the lower tax band.

Very complicated i know but I read somewhere that you cannot sacrifice salary to the extent that your earnings take you below the minimum wage level.

What you are proposing to do is earn a lower amount of money whilst doing more hours so it will reduce your hourly rate, sounds good but I am not sure it is allowed.

No I think you’ve misunderstood. I’m not in work, I gave up a few years ago to care. I’m trying to get back in to work part time so I can continue caring but get out of the house for a few days a week. The salary on offer is neither here nor there, I just want to ensure I stay within the rules so I can continue receiving my carer’s allowance.

 

[Shedrech]

I think we're both just linking to the info that will be relevant should you go back to work - practically you would be best making that call on Monday - I for one am only quoting the documents available, I wasn't working when I received CA

 

[Duggies-girl]

Thanks Beats for your reply. This is taken from Carers UK:- “if you earn £120.00 a week (after tax and NI) you will not be entitled to Carer’s Allowance. However if you put £8.00 a week into a pension, half of the £8.00 can be deducted from your earnings. Your earnings for Carer’s Allowance would therefore be £120.00 - £4.00 = £116.00 a week. As this is not over the earnings limit, you could claim Carer’s Allowance”. What’s not clear is who makes arrangements for the £8.00 to go in to a pension, me or the employer or how it works if the hours are variable which it’s likely to be for a cafe. It’s as clear as mud. I think I need to ring them tomorrow and get it from the horse’s mouth. I just hope the person who picks up the phone knows what they’re talking about!

I do understand, you get carers allowance and would like to earn a bit extra by getting a part time job.

I don't get carers allowance at the moment but probably will soon and I do have some part time work as a barmaid and get paid 7.50 an hour. I would like to get the carers allowance for some extra money and also to get my stamp paid.

If I do get carers allowance sometime in the future then I may wish to reduce my barmaid earnings to 116 pounds a week so I do not lose any carers allowance that I may eventually get. I would reduce my barmaid earnings by putting the over pay into a pension. I know that I can get it out sometime in the future as a lump sum.

I have looked at the pension thing and it is a really good idea. I just don't know if your employer is allowed to take this off your earnings as it may reduce your hourly rate to below the National minimum wage and I don't think that is allowed and if you pay it in yourself do they count it.

Read the bit at the bottom of the link. It is still called salary sacrifice if you are a low earner.

https://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/about-pensions/saving-into-a-pension/salary-sacrifice

Phone them up is the best thing and please please tell us on here what they say because it may affect me soon and I would really like to know as it would benefit me greatly.

 

[LynneMcV]

I am in a slightly different situation but some of this might be of help.

Earlier this year I dropped most of my working hours to become a full-time carer and claim Carers' Allowance.

I work one day per week and I remain part of my work's pension scheme, so half of what I pay into that is deducted from my earnings when it comes to working out my weekly income for Carers Allowance purposes. I stay below the £116 weekly limit because they also allow for me paying a day centre to take care of my husband on the day that I work.

If I hadn't been paying for day care (or some other kind of paid care outside of the family) I would have set up my own private pension policy in order to bring my available income to below the £116 pw allowed (as half of what is paid into a personal pension can be deducted)..

 

[scousemouse9536]

I am in a slightly different situation but some of this might be of help.

Earlier this year I dropped most of my working hours to become a full-time carer and claim Carers' Allowance.

I work one day per week and I remain part of my work's pension scheme, so half of what I pay into that is deducted from my earnings when it comes to working out my weekly income for Carers Allowance purposes. I stay below the £116 weekly limit because they also allow for me paying a day centre to take care of my husband on the day that I work.

If I hadn't been paying for day care (or some other kind of paid care outside of the family) I would have set up my own private pension policy in order to bring my available income to below the £116 pw allowed (as half of what is paid into a personal pension can be deducted)..

Thanks Lynne, that all makes sense. I'm intending when I go along for an interview, to ask for hours that keep me within the £116.00 a week. I really don't want too many hours. I'm just concerned about being asked to work more hours which will put me over. I've never had a private pension that I administer myself so don't know how that would work or if variable amounts would be acceptable. I also don't want it to be so complicated that it puts a perspective employer off. I wonder if big corporations sweat so much over dodging paying billions on tax as much as the little people sweat over earning an extra few pounds that they shouldn't!!

 

[MaryH]

How much is carer's allowance?

Be upfront with the cafe and maybe figure out with the rate paid how many hours it would be and maybe commit to a fewer number of hours than what the hours would be and pick up something if you get asked for more shifts. One of the things about cafes and bars is you might get tips? If so would that need to count towards the GBP116 per week?

 

[Beate]

CA is only £62.70 a week so it's well worth checking if you couldn't earn this or more via your job instead.

 

[Duggies-girl]

I wonder if big corporations sweat so much over dodging paying billions on tax as much as the little people sweat over earning an extra few pounds that they shouldn't


Ha ha scousemouse9536
Yes corporations and big earners have all kinds of dodges that save them billions.

Seems to me that us carers and low paid earners are penalised for every extra pound or two.

Don't forget to tell us how your phone call goes.